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Old 08-04-2008, 13:41   #346
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Dear all, we have ordered a Mahe for delivery May 2008. We are still wondering whether to include the bowsprit / spifurl option from the factory yes or no. Or maybe: is there a good (better or cheaper) non-factory option? We are very interested to hear this forum's views
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:17   #347
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Bowsprit

Jef & Marin: I would definetley get the bowsprit option. It will allow you to use a gennakker. I think this is the best option for your boat. The spifurl is OK but the gennakker will perform better. You could contact the company that makes the sails for F/P and at the same time get estimates from other sailmakers. Kind regards.
HMachiz
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Old 09-04-2008, 08:18   #348
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I did not get the bowsprit for our boat,I wish I had.I will be getting one in the near future.I think it will be a great addition to the boat,though it performs very well.We were sailing last saturday in 20 t0 25 kts,furled main,doing 10 to 12 kts,lots of fun.I am starting to get a real good feel about the boat.
JC.
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Old 09-04-2008, 15:30   #349
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I do not know what the factory now charge for the bowsprit option but it is probably the one thing you should get.

When we bought it represented good value (as opposed to some other items).

I would think that fitting something not from the factory will be expensive since it is a one off and getting the factory to do it during your build will be sensible.

The furler drum that they provide is too small but you can retro fit a continuous line furler. You will also need to add a further swivel.
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Old 14-04-2008, 12:10   #350
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Bowsprit and spifurl continued

Dear all, thanks for your much appreciated answers.
HMachiz, why do you think a gennaker is better than the spifurl? Do you have experience with the spifurl? We have never even seen a picture of it.

It is very strange that Fountaine Pajot wants to sell a bowsprit and spifurl and they do not have photo's and sail plans and specifications of this expensive options for the dealers to show the customers. We have some idea what a bowsprit is from some posted Mahe photo's (the Swiss couple), and from some other models we saw in La Rochelle during our sea trial.

DtM, do you have the spifurl? Reading your remark that the furler is too small indicates so.
Well, only getting the bowsprit (which includes the furler) and not the spifurl because you might prefer a gennaker or non-furling spi seems a waste of the furler. Why don't they include this furler with the sail?
Probably nobody even in Fountaine Pajot knows the answer to that.....

A Dutch sail making company said they don't like the furling asymmetric spannakers since they wear quickly due to the rolling. Any comment?

Hoping to hear,
Jef
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Old 14-04-2008, 22:55   #351
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Jef,

I have a gennaker. You can get your local sailmaker to build you one.
There is no reason not to furl a gennaker in my view. Even though the cloth is relatively lightweight it is probably no worse for the sail to be furled than stuffed into a bag willy nilly, as we do with the racing spinnakers on the monohull I race on.
The relatively light cloth together with the length of the foot means that you need a larger drum. The light cloth can start furling quite tightly if you allow it to and then you add the long foot and there is a lot of rope on the drum.
In fact if I hand rolled the rope onto the drum very carefully it was just enough but you have to do so each time which is a real pain.
A continuous line furler removes the drum size issue. Why don't FP do it? Easy, cost .
I guess perhaps you could negotiate a reduced cost if you wanted only part of the factory option.

daniel
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Old 15-04-2008, 07:35   #352
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bow sprit and spifurl

See the attached pictures ;
Gennaker is a lot easier to have on a furler.You can keep it rigged ,ready to go.Size and weight are indeed optionnal.THe shipyard option is for a "middle of the road" sail.After that it is up to your abilities and desire for speed and adrenaline.
You can also add an assymetrical spinnaker in a sock.( the specialist is ATN here in Fort Lauderdale-they have been and are doing socks and accessories for every racing boat in the world
ATN Home Page -- sailing, sail, storm, gale, tacker, spinnaker, sleeve, stasher, flasher, douser, chute scoop, sally, case, furler, roller, reefed sail, single handed, short handed, cruising, transatlantic, round the world, Jules Verne Trophy, BOC, w
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Old 15-04-2008, 15:37   #353
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The FP boats are conservatively rigged as most are used for charter work, and no manufacturer wants their name involved with accidents. I would definately reccomend that you just buy the bowsprit, all the other stuff you can get alot cheaper from a sailmaker i would think. I can see from the photos above that the sail is made by Incidences so just google them and ask for a price, then compare with a couple of others.

I would suggest going with the bowsprit and a sock for the asymmetric. I have one for my Tobago, on a home made bowsprit. Furlers for asymmetrics need to have a relatively large "furling line" to wrap the sail around.

I have a Code Zero on an endless furler, that just furls on itself, but this sail is not as deep as the asymmetric and much stronger = more expensive. Its like a very big genoa, and not optimal for downwind work, like an asymmetric is.

The ATN sock is nice, but at the more expensive end. You can get decent socks from any reputable sailmaker.

You will need a couple of good large diameter blocks for the sheets, and somewhere strong to mount them at the aft outside end of the boat, just ask your dealer if there already are attachment points mounted, and a way to lead the lines to a winch on each side.

Generally standard boats also have small (cheaper) winches as standard, so consider upgrading at least one size up for the genoa winch(es).

Regards

Alan
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Old 16-04-2008, 11:38   #354
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I bought my boat without a bowsprit. Does anyone know how much it would cost to get just a bowsprit (no sails or furler)?
thanks,
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Old 16-04-2008, 12:46   #355
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bow spirit cost

You should check with your dealer
FP has a list of option and bowsprit retrofit is one
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Old 16-04-2008, 12:52   #356
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Originally Posted by lstyles View Post
I bought my boat without a bowsprit. Does anyone know how much it would cost to get just a bowsprit (no sails or furler)?
thanks,

This list price is 4067 Euros including extra "equipment". Won't the factory quote you the sprit alone? If not, then I find this approach arrogant to say the least.

It's not that easy to just go and buy a bowsprit like the one they offer, these are made out of composites, made in a form. An alternative is to use an aluminium pipe, like a short spinnaker pole that attaches to the forward crossbeam, and can be detached. This needs to be supported by a couple of at least 10mm stays that are securely attached as far down and as far forward as possible on the inner sides of the hulls.

Enclosed is a picture I took of the attachment point for a bowsprit on a Freydis 49. If you beef up your furler attachment, it looks like an easy solution, or else you can mount the same kind of fitting to your forward beam. Note how the furler attachmnet base is beefed up behind the plate. In the foreground you can see the forward end of the bowsprit.
I would reccomend a sprit length of max. 120 cms for your boat, mine is about 90 cms on the Tobago

I would estimate a price of around 1000-1500 euros for the sprit, stays, beefing up the furler attachment, mounting etc.

The advantage of this kind of sprit, is that you can easily remove it for docking.

I have made my own system, and can get some pictures in a couple of weeks if you want, but it is not as elegant as the one in the photo below.

Regards

Alan
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Old 16-04-2008, 13:14   #357
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It is not arrogance.Just company policy.There is a list of option and you buy into it or not.You definitively seems to have a problem with FP.
And as I say before the California dealer will have a pricing and details.
The company bowsprit is nicely done in a mold and add to the look of the boat;
In brief..you get what you paid for
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Old 16-04-2008, 14:12   #358
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Originally Posted by pguillemin View Post
It is not arrogance.Just company policy.There is a list of option and you buy into it or not.You definitively seems to have a problem with FP.
And as I say before the California dealer will have a pricing and details.
The company bowsprit is nicely done in a mold and add to the look of the boat;
In brief..you get what you paid for

Having an opinion or expectations to levels of customer service, and having a problem with FP are not the same in my book. I have found the service department at FP very helpful (this is their factory service dept.)

In business, I believe that happy customers are the base for future success, so if a customer just wants to buy a bowsprit and nothing else, why not sell it to him? If he then requires assistance to mount it, then charge him for it as is fair. I think that hiding behind a "company policy" wall, instead of being flexible is an arrogant approach to the people who at the end of the day pay your salary/generate profit Mr. Guillemin.
I expect that you, as the importer of these boats to the US, have a possibility to influence the customer service approach your dealers offer to a very large extent.

On another thread where people who had problems with flexing boats and leaking windows - your approach was to claim it due to overtightening of the rig, instead of solving the root cause, or at least attempting to. Yes I was critical to the attitude shown there as well. If you think that this means that I have a "problem with FP" so be it. (I own one and am keeping it!)

My experiences with FP in Europe have all been positive, without the arrogant approach shown on several threads now. They are actually very helpful at the factory.

A final comment: I don't think that the factory bowsprit enhances the look of the boat at all, in fact I think it looks clumbsy, but it does the job.
But then "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

Regards

Alan
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Old 16-04-2008, 16:58   #359
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Alan,

This may seem a silly question but it is born out of some issues I am having/ have had.

When you speak to the factory do you speak to them in French or English or Danish ?

daniel
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Old 17-04-2008, 01:54   #360
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Alan,

This may seem a silly question but it is born out of some issues I am having/ have had.

When you speak to the factory do you speak to them in French or English or Danish ?

daniel

I communicate in English, both by mail and on the phone.

I think forums like these are good for discussing solutions to problems, but even better would be a FP user group, these groups can have a positive influence on the speed at which the factory/dealers respond to customer issues, but also alleviate the load on their service organisation if users can educate each other.

Mr. Guillemin - this is the second time I am encouraging FP users and owners to do this, - and No - this is not a "union" as you suggested on another thread, but it can be a strong lobby. If you as an importer/factory rep. understand how to work with these groups, you can benefit greatly by creating better and easier to sell products in the future, as well as ensure higher second-hand prices for your marque. The downside for you is that issues come out in the open, and you will have to react faster and more positively - or else you will later have to invest alot more time and money in damage control.

The present downturn in boat sales will put added pressure on the high volume builders prices and profits. The ones with a loyal and satisfied customer base will do best in the long term. Maybe the big comapnies aren't really interested in selling one boat at a time to demanding customers who are probably investing a large part of their savings/future income in a boat? Much easier to sell a bunch at a time to the charter compoanies. Then you don't spend time discussing a 2000$ investment....


Regards

Alan
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