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Old 19-03-2008, 14:42   #331
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Alan

I am commenting indeed
I do not know of the 4 decks redone on Lavezzi but I will check.We sold boat number 191 in October so I do not think that there is any STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS in the building process
For the rest I have answered some of the questions
Leaks :It happened on 2 of our Mahe so far and it was due to a badly followed process at the factory ( wating too long for instalation )
Easy fix

Creaking: overtensionning of the rig will pull the hull or chainplates up and will create chafe and grinding ( overloaded boat is easy to check as doors do not close easily )Also I do not think that SS cables streched .

Also you should sail a Mahe before commenting on the problems in a so doctoral manner

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
I would imagine that tightening the rig would lessen the creaking and squeaking, and help tighten the forestay.The rig loads depend on wind strength, direction and sea state. However hard you tighten the rig, the rigging will still stretch under real life sailing loads, so blaming the noise on rig tension is a diversionary tactic.
With wave action the mast will always move a bit, but this is not what is causing the noises inside the boat!
A well built cat should not have this level of noise/movement of components in and on the boat. The multiple leak reports are probably based on this flexing of the whole construction. A short to medium term fix will be to use a more flexible compound to seal around the windows and portholes, but this will not solve the inherent problem in the long term.

I ould suggest that all you Mahe owners start an owners group, if there isn't one already and work together to get this problem sorted.
I read somewhere that FP also had to redo the decks on 4 Lavezzis due to some stuctural issues, maybe the FP importer pguillemin would care to comment?

Alan
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Old 19-03-2008, 15:12   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pguillemin View Post
Alan

I am commenting indeed
I do not know of the 4 decks redone on Lavezzi but I will check.We sold boat number 191 in October so I do not think that there is any STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS in the building process
For the rest I have answered some of the questions
Leaks :It happened on 2 of our Mahe so far and it was due to a badly followed process at the factory ( wating too long for instalation )
Easy fix

Creaking: overtensionning of the rig will pull the hull or chainplates up and will create chafe and grinding ( overloaded boat is easy to check as doors do not close easily )Also I do not think that SS cables streched .

Also you should sail a Mahe before commenting on the problems in a so doctoral manner
A good aquaintance delivered one from the factory in France to the Baltic early last year. He said he had difficulty falling asleep due to all the creaking.

Anyway, I suggest you take a look at the March issue of Yachting World, page 76 and 77, commenting on The European Boat of the year, Multihull category where the Mahe was entered.

I quote: "Dubious interior build quality, quite noisy under way"
"Unexciting", "Good value for money" but also "Ultimately the value for money argument fades"

Comments like these are very seldom seen in the magazines who rely on the boatyards for alot of their income from advertising. The comments by some of the owners in this thread verify that there seems to be a flexing and a noise issue.

I agree that overtightening the rig will make the boat flex, all boats do to some extent. But I don't see how a now "stiffened boat" (as i maybe incorrectly expect the resistance to flexing to increase, the more you tighten the rig) should now make even more noise? Does the boat get more flexible as you tighten the rigging?

You don't think that Stainless stell stretches?????? I don't want to get personal, but this apparent level of knowledge of basic boating, puts the whole discussion we are having in a new light.

The Mahe was designed as an entry level boat, to entice new customers to multihulls, and expand the market for FP, I think that is great! But, the feedback also from professional boat testers from around 10 european countries, as well as a number of owners/sailors, seems to point in the direction of some problems with the design of the Mahe. Probably trying to give too much boat for too little money.
The fact that the Mahe was presented a few months prior to the company going public, so they could bask in the 45 or so orders, just based on drawings, can only have helped to boost the share price of the IPO.But it is impressive marketing!

The European Multihull Boat of the year 2008 was the Dragonfly 35 Ultimate. Check it out at Dragonfly Trimarans by Quorning Boats of Denmark | welcome

regards

Alan
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Old 19-03-2008, 16:01   #333
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And Sail mag. in the US has it as boat of the year. All I can say is I sleep fine on the boat and have been sailing the boat for almost a year.
Nordic Cat, if you dislike the boat so much maybe you should start a thread for the boat you really like. I don't mind people stating problems with the boat, and how to fix them, that is what all the owners want to know. But you have no experience with this boat yet come off sounding like an expert on the Mahe, I couldn't agree more that you need to sail the boat before trashing it. The more you say the less credibility you have.
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Old 19-03-2008, 16:03   #334
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Right now everything you report is hearsay...A good aquaintance ...or read in magazines,feedback from professionnals....Need to go on the water and try the boat instead of trying to organised unions out of boat owners,,,
Please read comments from owners of Mahe on the site ( real ones; not the ugly importer who doesnot know anthing about boats) Some of them went thru the Atlantic,some other to South Africa,some to the Carribbeans and back from the US and they seems to be happy with the performance and the whole package.We have a shipyard which stand behind their products and we try to work with our buyers to keep them happy and make sure that they will buy other boats from us.
Comments on boat of the year is true but Mahe and Orana were nominated out of numerous other boats.....and as much as I love the Dragonfly .I do not think that she will be a match for most of our buyers.
Also your are taking phrases out of context.Print the whole article

SS rig : low stretch...do not go personnal indeed as you do not know background .and look at the mast and rigging of Mahe please before commenting again

I think that you have too much time for boat bashing right now !Could it be the cabin fever and the nordic climate.
As of the introduction of boat and IPO??? May be but the line of FP boats is being redesigned every few years anyway.( and Mahe was introduced 15 months prior to market introduction)
And we sold a lot of boats on drawings because the price was right.So too much boat for too little money? not my place to answer but I know that we gave opportunity to go sailing on a new boat to alot of owners .
best regards
Philippe



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
A good aquaintance delivered one from the factory in France to the Baltic early last year. He said he had difficulty falling asleep due to all the creaking.

Anyway, I suggest you take a look at the March issue of Yachting World, page 76 and 77, commenting on The European Boat of the year, Multihull category where the Mahe was entered.

I quote: "Dubious interior build quality, quite noisy under way"
"Unexciting", "Good value for money" but also "Ultimately the value for money argument fades"

Comments like these are very seldom seen in the magazines who rely on the boatyards for alot of their income from advertising. The comments by some of the owners in this thread verify that there seems to be a flexing and a noise issue.

I agree that overtightening the rig will make the boat flex, all boats do to some extent. But I don't see how a now "stiffened boat" (as i maybe incorrectly expect the resistance to flexing to increase, the more you tighten the rig) should now make even more noise? Does the boat get more flexible as you tighten the rigging?

You don't think that Stainless stell stretches?????? I don't want to get personal, but this apparent level of knowledge of basic boating, puts the whole discussion we are having in a new light.

The Mahe was designed as an entry level boat, to entice new customers to multihulls, and expand the market for FP, I think that is great! But, the feedback also from professional boat testers from around 10 european countries, as well as a number of owners/sailors, seems to point in the direction of some problems with the design of the Mahe. Probably trying to give too much boat for too little money.
The fact that the Mahe was presented a few months prior to the company going public, so they could bask in the 45 or so orders, just based on drawings, can only have helped to boost the share price of the IPO.But it is impressive marketing!

The European Multihull Boat of the year 2008 was the Dragonfly 35 Ultimate. Check it out at Dragonfly Trimarans by Quorning Boats of Denmark | welcome

regards

Alan
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Old 19-03-2008, 16:35   #335
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Our boat (hull 29) certainly did creak a lot but the Australian importer was able to reduce the creaking to a very large extent. Perhaps if your boat is still creaking you could contact them for the solution.
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Old 19-03-2008, 16:46   #336
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Hello,
I find this thread very interesting, I have made a few posts here but will say I don’t own one but was very excited when I saw the first design on paper. I thought it had some parts I would add to like a shower door but I think for the size of 36 feet it is, a average size sail boat certainly not a enter level cost. 340 nicely equipped from the Miami boat show. But I never really thought about boat noise as to what is being discussed here. Is the noise happening under sail, why would you not be able to sleep I found that most of the noise from my old boat came from the water hitting the hull and put me to sleep while under way. Is the creaking happening while at anchor or at dock. I noticed a lot of people who have commented on the noise don’t show they own one what are the owners finding out. And than one more question, When it comes to flex how do you know your sail boat is flexing do you actually see it? I have never seen a boat flex was wondering what it looked like. J Just adding a little humor.
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Old 19-03-2008, 17:31   #337
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I think there are several comments from actual owners on this site mentioning the noise issue, and leaking windows, as well as the french owner with a claimed 50 waranty issues not solved after a year.

I am not into Mahe bashing, I think that it's great that a big name manufacturer like FP, who also has a great reputation, decided to adress this corner of the market again after an absence of 6-7 years after the last Tobago was built.
I agree that its great to give alot of people (often new to multihulls) a very reasonably priced entry level cruising boat.
If there are problems and issues, then they need to get sorted if FP wants to maintain their good reputation.
The new way they have chosen, of building an inner and outer shell is probably where the cause of some of these problems arise, as the inner shell doesn't do as much to stiffen the boat like on the earlier designs. I know this method saves alot of time in building, thus the lower sales price.

What I do react to is salesmen making exagerated claims about how light and fast their boats are. I have just tried to put these claims into perspective. I still haven't recieved a satsifactory answer as to how the Mahe ends up 800 kgs heavier than the Tobago for a 1 ft longer boat, despite the original claim that it was lighter.

The issues mentioned don't make the Mahe a bad boat, just keep things factual. Chosing a boat will always be a compromise, we just have to sometimes remind orselvesthat selling or buying a boat is always a "horse for courses" situation, you don't sell a workhorse as a thoroughbred racer at half the price.

Philippe,maybe the miserable Nordic weather has finally got to me, put me in a deep mental depression, that has led me to question some of your remarks.

I need to rush down and buy som Prozac, a few bottles of Vodka or schnapps, add a pinch of viagra (to ensure I don't inadvertently roll out of my bunk in my log cabin) and wait for the sun to reappear. In the mean time I must avoid being critical....

Fair winds and regards

Alan
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Old 19-03-2008, 18:02   #338
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I have a two year old Athena which squeaks a lot. This squeaking appears to be caused by the bathroom shell rubbing against the upper inner saloon shell of the roof along the forward roof line above the stairs where the wall of the bath room meets the roof in both hulls. (If that makes any sense) This is very annoying but I have become used to it. It happens as a result of flexing of the bridge deck and where this sound is occurring, a gap has gradually opened to about 3mm wide stretching the white rubber sealant. You can feel this movement by just putting your finger on it. I have considered trying to find the main friction point and grinding it out, but for now I am happy to live with the noise. As some one already said, all sail boats creek any way. One of my forward galley windows has a slight leak also caused by this same flexing action around the window frame. I would imaging this mass production construction technique causes the same squeaking and leaking on all FP vessels. I noticed hair line cracks in the gel coat around both hulls in the transom immediately after the boat was first put in the water indicating there was flexing occurring between the hulls. Flexing is perfectly normal on any hull, and in my case, this happens whether the sail is up or not and I guess the trick for FP is to try and avoid pressure points in their designs which produce squeaks. At least we don't have to contend with metal fatigue issues. All boats and designs have their share of flaws and it's a pity after making 222 Athena's FP didn't manage to resolve all the squeaking. A FP owners group would be interesting for owners and new buyers to compile all these issues, but I think you would just be highlighting what FP already knows already. Like Alan, I love my boat and overall I am very happy with it. It's a boat, and if I was lucky enough to fix the seeking noises in the saloon then the squeaking from the steering rod would start to annoy me
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Old 19-03-2008, 18:21   #339
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
maybe the miserable Nordic weather has finally got to me, put me in a deep mental depression, that has led me to question some of your remarks.

I need to rush down and buy som Prozac, a few bottles of Vodka or schnapps, add a pinch of viagra (to ensure I don't inadvertently roll out of my bunk in my log cabin) and wait for the sun to reappear. In the mean time I must avoid being critical....

Fair winds and regards

Alan



Now that's funny!!!
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Old 20-03-2008, 07:02   #340
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Alan

Mahe is heavier because it is a bigger boat ( way bigger)
Please look at the space and volume ( you say it yourself hull are wider and platform is bigger)
Good luck with the mix of Prozac and Vodka....Might even help
We do not need that in Florida as we have sun and we go sailing instead of dreaming about it
French owner.I am surprised as Fp has teated everybody fair in the USA .So may be there is another side to the story
There is no inner or outer shell.Boat are infused for the hull and injected for the deck ...so no liner or countermold.
Hulls are built then furniture is dropped in place then deck close the whole
The stairways are part of the interior furniture and they might be too tight on some of the earlier boats ( so rubbing occured)
ANd last I am not a salesman ...I import the boats and like them.And spend 30 years of my life sailing ( mostly on large cats ) SO it is a passion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic cat View Post
I think there are several comments from actual owners on this site mentioning the noise issue, and leaking windows, as well as the french owner with a claimed 50 waranty issues not solved after a year.

I am not into Mahe bashing, I think that it's great that a big name manufacturer like FP, who also has a great reputation, decided to adress this corner of the market again after an absence of 6-7 years after the last Tobago was built.
I agree that its great to give alot of people (often new to multihulls) a very reasonably priced entry level cruising boat.
If there are problems and issues, then they need to get sorted if FP wants to maintain their good reputation.
The new way they have chosen, of building an inner and outer shell is probably where the cause of some of these problems arise, as the inner shell doesn't do as much to stiffen the boat like on the earlier designs. I know this method saves alot of time in building, thus the lower sales price.

What I do react to is salesmen making exagerated claims about how light and fast their boats are. I have just tried to put these claims into perspective. I still haven't recieved a satsifactory answer as to how the Mahe ends up 800 kgs heavier than the Tobago for a 1 ft longer boat, despite the original claim that it was lighter.

The issues mentioned don't make the Mahe a bad boat, just keep things factual. Chosing a boat will always be a compromise, we just have to sometimes remind orselvesthat selling or buying a boat is always a "horse for courses" situation, you don't sell a workhorse as a thoroughbred racer at half the price.

Philippe,maybe the miserable Nordic weather has finally got to me, put me in a deep mental depression, that has led me to question some of your remarks.

I need to rush down and buy som Prozac, a few bottles of Vodka or schnapps, add a pinch of viagra (to ensure I don't inadvertently roll out of my bunk in my log cabin) and wait for the sun to reappear. In the mean time I must avoid being critical....

Fair winds and regards

Alan
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Old 20-03-2008, 18:28   #341
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Philippe,
When I was referring to "inner shell" I was referring to the interior furniture mould. In my case, on my Athena the interior furniture mould is physically not connected to the deck mould along the roof above the stairs. There is an expansion joint there, I guess to allow for the movement during bridge deck flexing. It is in this joint that creaking occurs when the two pieces slide and push together. I assume a similar thing is causing the same creaking on the Mahe. In my case, my boat is the 222nd Athena built and it is only two years old and has creaked since it was built. This problem is not new or only an issue of the earlier boats, it's a current production issue that FP has failed to rectify. It's small annoying things like this that give FP great boats a bad name, but I love em !!
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Old 21-03-2008, 07:32   #342
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Athena

Good morning
Athena was built to 2005.
And the building technique was totally different.
The boat was built traditionnally with a liner ( countermold ) for the hull and deck
The two were designed to move in separate ways ( which is why the furnitures are not glassed to the boat)
Sometimes the fit is too tight and the two lips under the joint rub and creaked.Should be an easy fix
Joint is only cosmetic
And indeed the boat flex as the two hulls are trying to go different way ( inherent to cat design )
The new boats are using infusion for the hull so there is no liner or countermold and the creaking we had was due to furnitures ( stairways or galley module being wedged too tight on the first boats)
Seems to get worst when rig is too tight and add flexing to the hulls.Most of the time it goes away as the wood rub itself or we peeled a small layer out
Deck are injected so you have finished gel coat on both sides and no liner or anything to hide.They do not flex as they are very rigid so the joint hul /deck take the flex
Hope it make sense
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Old 21-03-2008, 20:48   #343
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Philippe,
Thanks for the very informative post.
If you know exactly where this creaking is produced (both boats) and how to fix it, we would all like to know.
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Old 28-03-2008, 11:27   #344
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I don't want to get into the technical thing,all I can say is that we sailed our Mahe from Guadeloupe to Florida last year,had some good and not so good weather on the way,our skipper said that he was very impressed by the boat.When you look at the prices of cats,in this category,the Mahe is a very good deal.Everyone is surprised by how much space there is for a 36' cat.Overall we are very happy with the boat.JC.
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Old 28-03-2008, 11:57   #345
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MAhe mahe

JC

For once dealers and clients agreed.We love the boat and enjoy her each time we go sailing
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