Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 03-06-2008, 03:00   #1
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,033
Orana-First impressions

While waiting for the Orana that I had ordered, I had desperately looked around for some feedback from owners and besides the ones that Gordon had given on this forum, nothing.
Since there are some people looking at this boat as an alternative, I wanted to share with you my first impressions.
The boat has left La Rochelle in May 8th. I joined the skipper in Palermo and made it to Marmaris in 6 full days. (app. 800 nm) My previous experience was on Venezia and Belize only, so I will mostly refer to Belize..
It may not be yr taste but the use of space and design is excellent. The helm station has an excellent view and easy access to everywhere. Head room is exceptionally good everywhere in the boat. All of the winches are just at arm length form the helm station and easy to sail.
The boat seems to be much heavier than Belize although according to specifications it should be 500 kg lighter. In light winds, it didn't seem to be an easy /fast accelerating as Belize does. The polars that FP has published has nothing to do with the reality, the boat is way too slower.
However, it sits very well on the sea, unlike Belize it looks very solid in strong winds. The skipper said that north of Algery they had up to 52 kn wind and high seas and had no problem at all handling the boat. I have only seen mid 30's max and the boat behaved beatifully.
To my surprise, the boat has been superb with aft winds. Very stable and easily reaching 9-9,5 knots with mid 20's wind. (Just genoa and the main) In turn, in upwind it didn't come as close as Belize did, just OK. Close reach is good, but to my surprise, at 120 the boat is quite slow and difficult to manage with high and following seas.

The material used in general is OK but the finish is terrible..Some cracking but nothing major. Despite the high bridge, in 1,5-2 m of seas, we had a lot of banging underneath. You get used to it over time but sleeping particularly in master cabin is a nightmare..
I had two Volvo 40 hp (optional) and used most of the time one engine only reaching 6-6,5 knots. With two engine at 2200 rpm, we reached easily 8,5 kn.
Water and fuel tanks are more than enough.

To summarize, it is clear that the boat has been designed with the comfort in the first place and it largely delivers. The boat is really seaworthy and can be taken offshore safely. Sailing is just OK but nothing exceptional, below 13-15 knots you'd better be motoring.. Finish and the banging under the bridge are the main problems.

If this is not yr taste, at this price range (€ 350.000) you have many other alternative boats..

Cheers

Yeloya
__________________

__________________
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 05:23   #2
Registered User
 
Jeannius's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Worcester U.K.
Boat: Privilege 435 Now Sold
Posts: 840
Thanks for the info Yeloya. Your report is unusally candid coming from the owner of a boat. Most new owners can see no wrong with their beloved purchase so your report is very welcome.

I am a little disappointed to read that the finish isn't that good. I've had look at a number of new FPs recently and was impressed by the Orana I saw at the Southampton Boat Show last year. I musn't have been looking hard enough!
__________________

__________________
Mike

http://sailingjeannius.blogspot.com
Jeannius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 05:42   #3
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,033
My impressions , particularly the sailing performance, is contradicting with those of Gordon who had posted very positively about Orana. He said over 10 is easily achievable: this is not my finding..

After all everything is a relative to yr expectations. So is the finish..
Honnestly, I haven't been on too many boats so I cannot compare to other cats. The delivery captain said for instance Catanas, Nautitechs sail better than this and the finish is better. Obviously they cost app. 50-60% more for similar size.

Remember, you can buy performance (speed, handling, etc), economy (low price) and comfort (head space, length, cabines, etc).
But only too of them , never all of them...If you choose performance and comfort, then you will have to pay.. If you pay less, then you will have to sacrifice either form the performance or from the comfort or a bit of on each of them. Orana, in my view, is just in the middle; a bit on comfort side..Like every boat has its own compromises.

Good luck..

Yeloya
__________________
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 07:45   #4
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
I saw that FP are presently testing a new design in Flat-top mainsail from Incidences, as they are thinking of offering them as a standard on their boats for next year.

This suggests that performance is an issue/problem area.

The quality/finish issue seems to be cropping up more frequently on the new FP line-up, starting with the Lavezzi and Mahe. I just read the comparitive test between the Mahe and a Lagoon 380 S2 in the French multihulls mag. The Mahe got a negative comment on build quality/finish and squeaking noises.

I have had a FP for 8 years now. My conclusion is that they are akin to the french cars, alot of innovative design features, very focused to a well defined market segment. BUT, quality and longevity are what you pay for, i.e. at the lower end.

The positive thing is that it is the attractive price and nice features that have opened up peoples minds to sailing multihulls.

Just my humble opinion.

Regards

Alan

P.S. I know this is going to start the flak from a couple of people...
__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 20:20   #5
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burraneer Bay, Sydney.
Boat: Fountain Pajot, He'lia 44
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Gordon
Hi Yeloya,
Glad to hear you have your Orana. As you said we all have different expectations and as my previous experience was crewing on a Seawind 1160, when we took ownership of our own boat you tend to become a little protective and one eyed of your choice.We have now sailed some 2000 + nm. and are more than happy with our choice. As usual we have encountered various small problems or build defects but with the great support from our Australian agent E.C. Marine these have been rectified.As to sailing performance as I said my comparrison is the Seawind and we feel that this boat performs much better in the open ocean environment.On our sail from Sydney to the Sacantuary Cove Boat Show we saw speeds up over 16kts with abeam winds 28-30 kts and in 2-3m seas (a Shooning 40 in same conditions saw 18kts and he was 2up and only 5000kg we were 4up and say 10500 kg).We have a furling genny and find this sail useful in winds from 70' around to 150' and the boat is very manageable with the A/P on and wind from 120'
As you say the comfort level is very high and this was one our main requirements as the journey to your destination is only one part of the equasion.My wife finds this a very comfortable boat to work on during the passage especially the management of the galley.
Regards Gordon
__________________
Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2008, 21:35   #6
Registered User
 
solarbri's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Idaho
Boat: Custom 36' folding sailing cat
Posts: 297
So I just sent an inquiry on chartering an Orana44 for three weeks.
Having read Yeloya's review, I'm concerned whether the performance will be satisfactory or not.
What about the Salina 48? Has anyone been on one and how does it compare to the Orana? Performance and comfort.
__________________
solarbri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2008, 07:22   #7
Registered User
 
jglauds's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Boat: Orana 44
Posts: 164
Orana 44 Owners Group

Hi all:

I've purchased an Orana 44 -- huill #21 -- and have decided to create an owners group using Google. This allows us to post ideas and suggestions. We're pretty happy (my wife sailed it to Annapolis from France) but there are some issues in design and construction we're working out with the builder.

The group will allow us to compare notes, etc.

Address:

http://groups.google.com/group/orana-44?hl=en

Hope to see you there!
__________________
jglauds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2008, 14:20   #8
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
Would you care to share these issues here? I know this can be something one doesn't like to do, but often the issues are common to construction methods or certain designs. We can all learn what to look out for on other boats as well.

I also believe that some of the high volume builders are cutting corners on quality.This has become more of an issue in the past few years. The only way to wake them up is sometimes by pressure from a group, so your forum is a good idea for that as well. There have been issues with Lagoons and Bavarias, leopards etc.

Regards

Alan
__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 03:05   #9
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,033
Alan,

I will mention some of the issues I could see so far. But I believe to create a separate group to discuss specifically w/out bothering the entire forum does make a sense.

Orana has plenty of merit, seaworthy, incredible space for her size, excellent top bimini, fabuleous layout, etc..

The main issues;

1-It looks much heavier than 8 ton declared by FP. I cannot verify it, until she's on the lift. But the way she sails and her overall behaviour (acceleration, overall speed, the stability, etc) in choppy seas and strong winds say so.
2-If you look at carefully to the design, to create a space for large queen bed on starboard side (unusually perpendicular to the axe of the boat) , you will see that there is a huge volume out of the hull, aft under the bridge. This is exactly where you sleep and even with moderate sea, you get enormeous slamming just under yr pillow.. It is OK for coastal cruising and even offshore you get used to it over time. But fore some people it may be the kill. Moreover, I am pretty sure that it creates some drag on choppy waters.

3-I am disappointed with the sailing performance She (mine..) is much
slower than what the polars suggest and some other owners have experienced. My boat was almost empty with three crews on board..No gen, A/C, water maker, etc..

4-In broad reach when the main sail's traveller is on one side close to the end, the main sail is touching the arms (may not be the appropriate term in english..) 3-4 meters below the top of the mast, which limits the trimming.

5-Orana is using Incidence sails supposed to be better performing. My findings are not so. Moreover, it looks like they won't last much..

As you can see, some of these problems are impossible or tough to be rectified.. The finish is just OK but not exceptional..

Cheers

Yeloya
__________________
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 07:48   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Winters cruising; summers Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Catana 471
Posts: 1,239
Hi yeloya - I wish you well with your new cat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
2-If you look at carefully to the design, to create a space for large queen bed on starboard side (unusually perpendicular to the axe of the boat) , you will see that there is a huge volume out of the hull, aft under the bridge. This is exactly where you sleep and even with moderate sea, you get enormeous slamming just under yr pillow.. It is OK for coastal cruising and even offshore you get used to it over time. But fore some people it may be the kill. Moreover, I am pretty sure that it creates some drag on choppy waters.
If this turns out to disappoint you, you may have been similarly disappointed on numerous other cats. Mine and many other designs have this "compromise" to some extent. Some are more pronounced than others. One of those compromises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
4-In broad reach when the main sail's traveller is on one side close to the end, the main sail is touching the arms (may not be the appropriate term in english..) 3-4 meters below the top of the mast, which limits the trimming.
The english term is "spreader". I doubt this is an Orana problem. Sounds like you have too much twist in the sail. When this happens again, try tightening the main sheet to get the sail off the spreaders and trim by the tell tales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
5-Orana is using Incidence sails supposed to be better performing. My findings are not so. Moreover, it looks like they won't last much..
Incidence sails are well regarded, as far as I know. I have Incidence sails that are now about 7 years old, approx. 30K miles including a trip around the Horn and I hope to get several more years out of them.

Good luck,
Dave
__________________
2Hulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2008, 12:38   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3
"fench" quality

I am not impressed at all by the focus on design by the french builders rather than quality. The surveyor in my area is a big fan of cats but can talk endlessly about the cheat contruction of FP and Lagoon. No one purchasing a monohull at those prices would put up with this.
__________________
joe deen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2008, 13:06   #12
Registered User
 
Nordic cat's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Boat: FP Tobago 35
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeloya View Post
Alan,

I will mention some of the issues I could see so far. But I believe to create a separate group to discuss specifically w/out bothering the entire forum does make a sense.

Orana has plenty of merit, seaworthy, incredible space for her size, excellent top bimini, fabuleous layout, etc..

The main issues;

Quote:
1-It looks much heavier than 8 ton declared by FP. I cannot verify it, until she's on the lift. But the way she sails and her overall behaviour (acceleration, overall speed, the stability, etc) in choppy seas and strong winds say so.
This is apparently not uncommon. My Tobago is supposed to weigh 4200 kgs but is actually very close to 5 tons.

Quote:
2-If you look at carefully to the design, to create a space for large queen bed on starboard side (unusually perpendicular to the axe of the boat) , you will see that there is a huge volume out of the hull, aft under the bridge. This is exactly where you sleep and even with moderate sea, you get enormeous slamming just under yr pillow.. It is OK for coastal cruising and even offshore you get used to it over time. But fore some people it may be the kill. Moreover, I am pretty sure that it creates some drag on choppy waters.
The transverse aft bunk with access from 3 sides looks great, but it either will be very high to get in over the bridgedeck, or like on the Orana protrudes between the hull with the negative things this leads to.


Quote:
3-I am disappointed with the sailing performance She (mine..) is much
slower than what the polars suggest and some other owners have experienced. My boat was almost empty with three crews on board..No gen, A/C, water maker, etc..
I winder if someone in the US would sue them for not providing the stated performance, despite the "cop out" clause on the polar diagram? All FP boats and in fact most of the big name manufacturers are mainly dependent on the charter market for their business. The worst that can happen is that somebody flips one of their boats, so that word gets around that they are "dangerous". That is why these boats are generally very under rigged, and could probably not be flipped even if you try!

I have had my Tobago out in 30-35 knots TWS with full genoa and main, and was nowhere near lifting a hull completely out of the water.

The best performing cat that FP ever made was the Maldives, but one or 2 flipped, and they stopped production right away, I think it was back in 94.


Quote:
4-In broad reach when the main sail's traveller is on one side close to the end, the main sail is touching the arms (may not be the appropriate term in english..) 3-4 meters below the top of the mast, which limits the trimming.
Thes boats (as well as most others) are made for a well defined market segment and need to be made at low cost, so alot of compromises are made. One of the compromises is that there is no Vang, so once your boom is further outboard than the mainsheet traveller, you have no way of keeping the main flat. I have added a couple of padeyes on each side, where I can add a 2:! or a 4:1 sheet. The aft padeye is a bit aft of the chainplates. When sailing off the wind I let the boom out, tighten it with the extra sheet attached to the padeye to pull the boom down, then tighten the mainsheet, so the main is flatter and chafing on the spreaders doesn't occur.

The other padeye is near the chainplate, and is used with a barber-hauler to trim the genoa or asymmetric on a broad reach, using the 2:1 sheet.


Quote:
5-Orana is using Incidence sails supposed to be better performing. My findings are not so. Moreover, it looks like they won't last much..
Again it is a question of price. Incidences makes good sails but they also have to make them to a target price, so you will find that the quality and weight of the material used is on the low side.

You will probably also find that the winches are one or 2 sizes smaller than optimal for easy use under high loads, the same goes for the mainsheet traveller. >Trimming in 10 m/s is probably very difficult unless you head up to unload the sheet, trim and fall off again.

Quote:
As you can see, some of these problems are impossible or tough to be rectified.. The finish is just OK but not exceptional..

Cheers

Yeloya
OK is also the price level they ask for, you see the same thing on monos, a Bavaria, Beneteau etc. are much cheaper than say a Najad, X-yacht or other high quality boat. You won't see many of the high-end boats in charter fleets...

If you look at the Mahe, they have minimised the number of winches, and have done away with the genoa tracks, again bringing the price down.

People new to cats don't realise this sometimes, and end up feeling like you do.

I hope the other issues you have get sorted to your satisfaction...

Regards

Alan
__________________
Nordic cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2008, 01:02   #13
Marine Service Provider

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Marmaris
Boat: FP Orana 2010, Lipari 2011, Hélia 2013, Catana C 47 2013
Posts: 1,033
Alan, Dave

Thx for yr insightfull comments.

1-I can't believe that a FP cat can go up to 20% heavier than declared given that they are supposed to be larger manufacturer of cat , in line with rather strict ISO standards heavily rely on infusion system. Again, I am not sure yet, but if turns out to be 9-9.5 tons instead of declared 8 tons, this is serious. I am not saying 9 tons of cat is bad but it would then be be clearly underrigged.

2-If the lower than declared performance is clealry due to the fact that the boat has been manufactured much heavier tghan it was supposed to be; this is someting quantifiyable and they can be sued. I am not a lawyer and I am sure the legislation varies from country to country. Here in Turkey, recently a consumer who bought a 4X4 that didn't delivere what it was supposed to do, has got his money fully back + some compensation for the inconvenience he had to face with.

3-I agree that in the end you get what you pay for. Nonetheless, +500 K USD is not
peanut. Some finishing issues, a bit of slamming is OK. But getting a boat significantgly under performing VS. her standards is something to be taken seriously..

To finish, I will add without comments what the delivery skipper (fan of Catana's..) with plenty of experince on various boats around the globe had said after the 2300 nm delivery trip;
-nice boat overall..
-I would be cautious to take it for circumnavigation as it is..
-performance is not not breathtaking, but OK.
-every boat has comes with her own defects and this has some too..
-Catana's are probably best in terms of seaworthyness and performance, but over complicated , difficult to maintain ..
-Overall, FP's are somewhat better than Lagoon's but I doubt it that they justify 15% price up..
-He wasn't a big fan of Incidence sails.. (maybe because on my sail one batten was out as a result of manufacturing error..)

Cheers

Yeloya
__________________

__________________
yeloya is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
orana

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Orana 44: In General Gordon Fountaine Pajot 210 19-06-2017 15:36
Orana delivery yeloya Fountaine Pajot 19 01-01-2008 16:09
FP Orana 44. Gordon Fountaine Pajot 14 07-03-2007 11:36



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:50.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.