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Old 03-12-2011, 10:38   #1
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Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Does any one know the exact make of the materials in and outside of the keel of the FP Bahia 46? The FP yard in France is not very responsive to my request for information on the exact make up of the keel. i.e. type of foam and resin inside the keel and type of resin and fiberglass used on the outside. The bottom of the keel has some damage and the fiberglass has opened up to expose the foam and hardened resin inside the keel.
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Old 04-12-2011, 14:40   #2
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

I think that the Bahia has a sacrificial part of the keel.

What you may be seeing is the part sacrifice of the base of the keel and then the "messy" join.

On one of the Mahe threads there is a photo of the keel with the sacrificail "plate" off.
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Old 06-12-2011, 15:57   #3
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Thanks DtM. The problem is on the bottom of the sacrificial 'keel'. The keel is still attached to the hull. The glass has separated from the foam, there is resin sandwiched between the foam and is exposed and I need to know the exact materials used, both in and outside of the keel.....i.e. name brands of fiberglass, GRP, resin and type of foam. I need to haul the boat, so I want to have all the right materials before I go up on the hard. If you, or anyone knows the make up of these FP Bahai 46 class boats, please let me know where I can find the info. Cheers.
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Old 06-12-2011, 16:08   #4
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Hi Bobby,

It's unlikely that anyone not affiliated with FP would have the detailed laminate schedule and suppliers list. That stuff is generally considered to be confidential trade secrets.

But it doesn't really matter; you probably wouldn't be able to source the original materials anyway, and even if you could, resins that are appropriate for a new build aren't necessarily appropriate for a repair. A competent repair yard will be able to look at the damaged area, figure out approximately what was there, and source appropriate substitutes from their suppliers. A yard that can't do that is not a yard that you want working on your hull.

It's a sacrificial keel. It's expected to take damage and to be repaired ad-hoc in out-of-the-way places. The engineering that goes into this particular component is not very sophisticated or complex.
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Old 06-12-2011, 16:39   #5
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Thanks for the reply Matt,
You're right on all of the above. An easy repair. Was just hoping someone had done this repair before and fill me in on the make up of keel, more than anything. How far up the sandwiched resin goes, will the strain on the keel hauling on a railway be too much?? We need to get it shored up on the hull itself, for and aft of the keel to work on the bottom of keel. FP (factory yard in France) is not being very cooperative in responding to my request for description and make up of keel and materials, will the keel take the strain, etc... Like you said...TOP SECRET. The boat is in Costa Rica also, not making it any easier. The ideal would be a travel lift/crane and set it in a cradle to work on. A bit dear, here in CR. Panama may be the only option.

Cheers
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Old 07-12-2011, 03:48   #6
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

I and a friend have both repaired the keels of our FP Maldives which I believe have basically the same construction.
The technique for repair was to cut back both glass and foam to sound dry material, build up the foam core using 2 part foam and a crude mould. When the foam is cured, cut back to the desired shape, feather the glass in the normal way and build up using alternate mat and roving. Its not a bad precaution to increase the glass thickness on the bottom of the keel significantly to take some wear.
The cause of the damage in our cases was constant wear from use on a drying mooring the boat drying on mud/stones/gravel twice a day. If this is the case, then my friend had made stainless keel shoes which have been very successful.
My understanding is that FP have designed the whole keel to be sacrificial in the case of severe impact. The keels go into a tapered socket and seem to be held in by a Sikaflex type material. You should be able to buy a replacement keel, although it may be interesting getting the old one out.
Thierry Billard at FP is very helpful and explained to me how they move the boats in the factory using trolleys supported across the bridgedeck under the main beams. My friend and I have used this technique for >10 years for spring launch and autumn recovery. Basically we dry the boat out on the slipway, put the trolley under and jack up transverse beams covered in carpet. You just need to get FP to confirm the jacking positions.
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Old 07-12-2011, 14:29   #7
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Hey Rapanui, thanks for the reply. Did you use the two-part liquid, expanding rigid urethane closed cell pourable foam. This is resistant to the absorption of water, so I'm sure the only way to go. Have emails and messeges into Thierry Billard @ FP, but haven't heard back yet. Really would like to talk to him. Do you have direct contact info for him?
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Old 07-12-2011, 16:04   #8
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Hi Bobby,
I have emailed the general contact address:
fountaine-pajot@fountaine-pajot.com
and have always had an answer. Suggest you try that
Thierry has replied from:
thierry.billard@fountaine-pajot.com so that may be an alternative.
I have not tried communication except by email so no direct contact.
Yes, I used the two part urethane foam and normal polyester resin to laminate.
I currently have an Athena and that has the same keel arrangement as the Maldives. Its a very simple arrangement that protects the hull from a breach resulting from a major keel impact by breaking off. Lesser damage is easy to repair. Its weakness is wear from repeated grounding such as a half tide mooring.
Stephen
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Old 08-12-2011, 19:19   #9
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby B View Post
.... will the strain on the keel hauling on a railway be too much?? We need to get it shored up on the hull itself, for and aft of the keel to work on the bottom of keel.
It's hard to understand what you are asking. Obviously a normal keel will hold the boat on a rail, but if there is extensive damage, it may not. How do you expect anyone to know?

If you support the boat on the hull, be sure you are under bulkheads with the stands.
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:07   #10
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Here is what your keels would look like if you had them removed.
Mark Cole sent us these great pictures from when he was in a boatyard in Martinique recently and came across a FP cat with the keels removed.

He thinks it was an Athena 38, but it might have been a Venezia 42.

Of course these keels are just bedded in with a strong silicon and are made to break away with a strong collision with a container or log, but not cause a leak in the hull.

Most production cats can be hauled from under the bridge deck, so that may be a good hauling option for you.

FOUNTAINE PAJOT
Zone Industrielle - 17290 AIGREFEUILLE - France
Tel +33(0) 546 35 70 40 - Fax +33 (0) 546 35 50 10
Internet :www.fountaine-pajot.com - E-mail : sav@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : info@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : fountaine-pajot@fountaine-pajot.com

Thierry Billard
Responsable Service Clients - Customer Service Manager
thierry.billard@fountaine-pajot.com
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Old 09-12-2011, 06:30   #11
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Bobby B.

Good luck with your repairs!
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Old 10-12-2011, 21:07   #12
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Here is what your keels would look like if you had them removed.
Mark Cole sent us these great pictures from when he was in a boatyard in Martinique recently and came across a FP cat with the keels removed.

He thinks it was an Athena 38, but it might have been a Venezia 42.

Of course these keels are just bedded in with a strong silicon and are made to break away with a strong collision with a container or log, but not cause a leak in the hull.

Most production cats can be hauled from under the bridge deck, so that may be a good hauling option for you.

FOUNTAINE PAJOT
Zone Industrielle - 17290 AIGREFEUILLE - France
Tel +33(0) 546 35 70 40 - Fax +33 (0) 546 35 50 10
Internet :www.fountaine-pajot.com - E-mail : sav@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : info@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : fountaine-pajot@fountaine-pajot.com

Thierry Billard
Responsable Service Clients - Customer Service Manager
thierry.billard@fountaine-pajot.com

Guys,

Its my understanding (via a FP dealer) that Thierry left FP in October so you may not get a reply on that email address. There is a new service manager I understand but I don't have any details.
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Old 11-12-2011, 07:06   #13
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

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Old 12-12-2011, 01:14   #14
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Thierry has left the company; I have good results when sending inquiries to:

serviceclient@fountaine-pajot.com

Gord's references are also helpful.

Good luck!

/jon
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Old 17-01-2012, 16:03   #15
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Re: Keel Make Up and Materials Used for Bahia 46

Anyone know what the minimum crane tonnage rating to haul a Fountaine Pajot Bahia 46 is. I think the total, loaded weight is close to 10,000kg.
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