Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-02-2016, 12:59   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 29
Info and advice on head set-up

We have been having problems with the owner's side head in our 2002 Belize 43 Maestro ever since we bought it in August. What we have gathered from the manual and PO are that the boat was manufactured with no pump out for the owner's side head...only a tank with discharge to the sea. That was no problem for the PO, who berthed very near the ocean, where discharge is legal. We are too far from the sea for that option, and our marina enforces installation of a heavy-duty plastic loop fastener to prevent use of the overboard discharge valve.

The PO kindly installed a pump out for this head before we picked it up, but we fear that well-intentioned effort resulted in an untenable set-up that has resulted in a very stinky situation. We have bought and carefully read Peggy Hall's book on boat odor, flushed the system with two gallons of vinegar, pumped the tank empty, flushed with fresh water, opened the through-hull discharge to completely empty the hose (before the fastener went on), tightened leaking connections at the hull and clamp to hull discharge, but we still have stink, despite the fact that we have not used the head at all since we flushed the lines, etc.

The problem seems to be both the set-up and permeated hoses. The set-up violates several of the Headmistress's rules. The tank is located about 8 feet above where the hose leaves the head. We guess that the original discharge hose went straight from the bottom of the tank to a through-hull discharge about 5 feet below and worked well with a gravity feed. To install a new pump-out, a y was installed about 3 feet below the tank, with one hose leading (another 3 feet) to the hull discharge and the other snaking down 2 feet, 4 feet across the space behind the head, then back up for 5 feet at a vertical angle to a pump out. The hose from the y valve to the hull discharge seems to be permeable (using Hall's wet rag test). Other clues...the bad smell was temporarily eliminated when the vinegar was flushed and when I wrapped the hose from the y to the through-hull discharge in heavy masking tape.

I think the current set-up is doomed to stink by the fact that waste will always sit in both of the hoses coming off the y, because the hose coming off the tank is at the bottom of the tank and the tank is far above all hoses. Not to mention the very long and looping pump out hose. Options we are considering include:

1. Replace permeated hoses, install a hose leaving tank from top of tank straight and at an upward slope to the pump out, install valve at tank to hose from bottom of tank to through-hull discharge to shut off flow into hose. Maybe also install a second vent on side of the tank facing the wind to increase air flow.

2. Rip it all out and install composting toilet.

Somewhat relevant is that the available pump out in our marina involves backing into a slip not much larger than boat, so is not much fun.

We would love to hear what set-up others have for a pump out of the owner's head tank, enthusiasm for composting toilets, and any other suggestions. I only wish there was a crinkled nose emoji suitable for stinky head posts!
__________________

__________________
Chat de Mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 15:37   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Boat: Creekmore 34
Posts: 65
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Rip it out and go composting! Love our Air Head. 6 years (after 5 years with a bucket because we just could NOT handle marine toilets any more!!)

Here's my take on it that Good Old Boat published right after we installed it.

Simply Sailing Online
__________________

__________________
Simply Sailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 15:46   #3
cruiser

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 285
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

don't have a FP but did have a post-manufacturer-installed holding tank in my cat. It's going to be difficult, maybe heavy, and likely expensive to do the holding tank system correctly, being that it wasn't fitted in the first place.

My solution was a composting/desiccating head. I do not regret the choice in any way. Rather than go on about that, I'll just say I have a C-Head, and suggest that you do a search here for the myriad threads on "composting" (they actually desiccate, not compost) heads if you should be interested.

btw simply sailing... I see Lee Creekmore with some regularity at Turner Marine
__________________
AD28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 19:29   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 29
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Thanks Simply Sailing and AD28. I got a good impression about the composting/desiccating toilets here
and will check out your report as well. I am guessing that the new head option will cost more (labor to take out old system, cost of new toilet, and labor for new toilet installation), but it could be a permanent solution, eliminate pumping out, and allow us to stay anywhere without having to find a place to pump out.

If we get no votes for rehaul of the old system, I will have some questions about the composting/desiccating toilets.

Anyone vote for redesign? Or have some other suggestion for how to solve our head-ache? (pun intended!)
__________________
Chat de Mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 19:45   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,428
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

So you have the FP installed holding tank but no deck fitting for pump out?

If that is the case, the tank certainly has the fitting on the top for a pump out hose. All you need is a short piece of hose and a deck fitting. Then take out the y valve and extra junk at the bottom of the tank and put it back the way the factory built it.

I have zero smell from tank or hoses, and mine is all factory installed.
__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-02-2016, 19:57   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 29
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Hi DotDun,

A pump out has been installed, but the routing of hoses means that waste sits in the hoses all the time. Hoses are now permeable, and the stench is dreadful.
__________________
Chat de Mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 05:14   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,428
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

The factory installation pump out has a hose from the top of the tank and thru the deck. That hose is 1' (or less) to a deck fitting. There is no pump, and nothing sits in that hose.

It sounds like you have an actual pump connected to hose/y-valve on the bottom of the tank. A much different design than the original factory installed pump out.
__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 10:44   #8
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 2,342
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chat de Mer View Post
Hi DotDun,

A pump out has been installed, but the routing of hoses means that waste sits in the hoses all the time. Hoses are now permeable, and the stench is dreadful.
This is a common problem. If the sewage sits in the hose it will smell. You can replace the hose but the smell will come back if you can't plumb it without low spots. As previously noted the easiest way to correct the problem is a composting head. No hoses, no tank, no thru hulls & no smell.
__________________
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 11:13   #9
Registered User
 
BWSJWS's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: MEXICO
Boat: Custom Bruce Roberts 370
Posts: 36
Send a message via Skype™ to BWSJWS
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

I removed it all a month after buying our boat and days after a small blockage we installed a composting toilet. FANTASTIC. Simple, no to few moving parts, no smell, quick and simple disposal and low operation cost. We use coconut coir, it's great
__________________
BWSJWS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 12:45   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 29
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Hi DotDun,

On the guest side, the pump out is above, but on the masters side, when a pump out access was put in, they snaked it down and around then up again ... don't know why, but assume to put the pump out at a better location than above the tank.

The tank was there all along, but holding only for dumping to sea.
__________________
Chat de Mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 12:52   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 29
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

The count so far is 4 votes for the composting toilet...

Hearing no enthusiasm for replumbing to eliminate our design problem, I will ask the pro-composters...

* Are there any issues with getting guests to use the facility properly - making deposits in the correct places? Using coffee filters and keeping liquids out of the compost bin? I can imagine someone trying to "clean up" after use by pouring water in there.

I know it is also challenging to get guests to pump a marine head enough, but not too much, not put unwanted stuff into the toilet, etc. Just want to know what we should expect if we got the composting toilet.
__________________
Chat de Mer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 14:22   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Boat: Creekmore 34
Posts: 65
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Our directions are quite simple:
1) everyone sits down to do any business.
2) If you're doing a big job, put a coffee filter over the trap door. Do your business, open the trap door, your deposit falls in, close the trap door, stir a few times.

There really is no issue with anyone peeing in the solids container if you do it that way. The trap door is never open until after they're completely done. And realistically, at the worst, you just dump the solids container and start all over with a new batch like you do every 4-6 weeks. No big deal. You don't do any permanent damage.
__________________
Simply Sailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-02-2016, 20:21   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SW Florida
Boat: FP Belize, 43' - Dot Dun
Posts: 3,428
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chat de Mer View Post
Hi DotDun,

On the guest side, the pump out is above, but on the masters side, when a pump out access was put in, they snaked it down and around then up again ... don't know why, but assume to put the pump out at a better location than above the tank.

The tank was there all along, but holding only for dumping to sea.
So, why can't you put a pump out directly above the tank?

Wouldn't that eliminate all the extra hose, which appears to be the problem?
__________________
DotDun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2016, 06:38   #14
Registered User
 
Scout 30's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Florida
Boat: Scout 30
Posts: 2,342
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

No trap door or coffee filters with the C-Head. We've only had ours a few months & there really was no learning curve. Just sit down & use it. Installation is crazy simple because most don't install a vent with the C-Head.

C-Head portable composting toilet system

__________________
Scout 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-02-2016, 10:13   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2015
Boat: Creekmore 34
Posts: 65
Re: Info and advice on head set-up

Trap door, inner lid/outer lid, same thing.
__________________

__________________
Simply Sailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for info and/or video/blogs on Kingdom of Tonga sailing info. nolakennedys Pacific & South China Sea 15 20-08-2015 01:46
C-Head, Natures Head or Air Head- which is best overall Ram Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 48 24-05-2015 07:25
New and Seeking Info and Advice lorelei2002 Meets & Greets 7 23-09-2012 18:59
5/16th Square Head Set Screw familycruisers Engines and Propulsion Systems 0 16-02-2012 13:04
Advice on New Gauge Set johnar Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 19-05-2010 09:08



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.