Orana 44: In General

[Gordon]

Thanks guys for that info on saildrive, will let you know how we go.
With our setup for the gennica we fixed a pad eye on port side in line with the winch mounted centrally in front of the tender. To this we clip on a turning block when needed. Controlling and adjusting this sheet takes two, not as simple as the stbd. setup.

Gordon.

[Aluna]

I have the same set up as Ile de Grace, controlling the gennaker from a central winch on the stern is no problem.
What size sail are you going to buy ? It is not clear what size is recommended by Fountaine Pajot. They recomended me sail dimensions that result in a 100sqm gennaker. Unfortunately, they also supplied furling gear that is only adequate for 70sqm so I cannot furl it ! FP don't accept any responsibilty for their cockup so I have a gennaker or a furler for sale !
Richard

[yeloya]

Hi All,

Thx for yr input on genneaker. If I understand correctly, for the sheet on the starboard side, you are all using the (small) winch aft center that is for launching the dingy out of david, right ? If you have any photo of the set up, I would much appreciate..
Next December I plan to make an Atlantic crossing to Caraibs and March-April back to Med. I am therefore planning to change all of my sails, althought they are 3-4 years old and still in good shape. We have a local sail maker (UK sails) and I will talk to them on what genneaker to have.
We are the official service point for FP, we know many people personally in after sales and do a lot of work for them, in principle, they never answer or answer very late. Last time I had asked what kind of folding prop they would recommend, no answer..By the way, If you have any recommendation on this, you are welcome..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Gordon]

Hi yeloya,
The winch we us for the tender we also use for the port sheet which runs thru a turning block which is clipped to a Wichard folding cleat just forward of the s/s frame.We attach shock cord/ bungee to the block to keep off the gell coat. The cleat is in line with the tread of the top step. On the Stbd side we have the same cleat and block but run this sheet up to the middle winch on the roof. I have glued a stainless strip formed around the aft edge of the roof below the winches to prevent wear from this sheet and also the headsail furling line when we have to run it back to a winch.
Also we have just ordered Flexofold folding propellers for our Orana. They were sized by Flexofold at 17 x 12 -3blade version. Our Aust. $ to Euro exchange is at .77 euro to our dollar at the moment so making this a more attractive purchace now.

Gordon.

[Aluna]

Here is a picture of the starboard gennaker block. It's position is critical so that the sheet can pass freely to the central winch. The distance between the center of the adjacent stanchion and eye pad is 12cm - starboard and port sides.

Having just crossed the Atlantic myself I would tend more towards a small spinnaker than gennaker. My gennaker only works upto about 120 apparent. The Atlantic trades (15N) blow from behind. But I am still learning !

Richard

[yeloya]

Thx Gordon,

I'll be back to Marmaris in two days and check this out. If it worked for you, it should work for me as well
For folding prop, I was considering Radice 17X12 2 blades, they are about one third of flexofold price. But I know Flexofold is a way better option. Could you pls let me know yr experience with it once installed ? I have still time and I can change my mind..

Cheers

Yeloya

[yeloya]

Hi Richard,

Thx a lot for the picture. Can you pls send the picture for the port side as well and if possible with the sheets running to the winch on port side.

As far as downwind sailing is concerned, you are absolutely right. Hıowever I don't feel very comfortable with a spinneaker as I will be shorthanded. My idea was to set a genoa and genneaker wing on wing both with a pole and to not to use the main at all. (This was suggested by Exit one, maxingout) This option apparently won't overload the autohelm and provide better ride.
Have you tried this on yr passage ?
If you have any specific note on the passage, I would appreciate them. (how much was loaded yr boat, average speed you experienced as a % of true wind, any problem, etc)
Thx again for yr input

Yeloya

[Aluna]

The port block is identical to the starboard side and the sheet takes a straight line to the winch - no tricks.

The thought of flying gennaker one side and genoa the other did pass my mind, but you can't fly a gennaker on a run. Cats also don't like sailing dead down wind - look at the polars. I am still trying to work out the best way down wind in light conditions.

Richard

[Gordon]

We attach a wire about 80cm long to the center docking cleat and attach to the end of that the turning block we use for the genny, Now drop the headsail sheet off the roof block and run this thru the new block, allowing you to wing out the headsail on one side and with a preventer attached to the boom wing that on other side, we find this works quite well downwind and is very easy to manage with just my wife and myself sailing.

Gordon.

[jglauds]

Hi -- we've just done about 7k mikes of downwind sailing from Panama to Australia, and tried everything suggested above, including wing and wing on dead downwind. For us, the governing factor was the run of the seas/swells -- most times, we favored a direction that minimized banging and yawing, so we were often at 150 +/- degrees off the wind. In very light winds, we went with genaker only,(no main) but pulled it in (kept it on furler) whenever apparent got near 15 knots. We were not in a hurry, and I've found that pushing a boat to the max saves very little time (maybe a day on longer passages) but extracts such a toll on the boat, sails, and crew, that the cost-benefit isn't there.

In stronger winds, if the wind were forward of 150 degrees, we'd put at least one reef in the main (we hardly ever sail with a full main), and often two reefs, and adjust the genoa furling accordingly. As a couple, we look to minimize the amount of mainsail reefing we do, and we always over reef at night so we can sleep more peacefully.

At about 20 knots apparent, the boat moves nicely with just a headsail, being pulled along. Our Furuno autopilot runs continuously, and with modest following seas, it's never a problem. We have four 135w solar and a KISS wind generator, and at worst, we have to run the engine or generator every other day or so for a few hours to keep our batteries charged up.

That all said, our friends on hull 20 have purchased one of those para-sails, that's double sheeted with airfoils aloft, and they love it ... kinda pricy, but apparently quite effective in all sorts of following/reaching winds.

Is anyone else nervous about trusting the midships cleat with the force of an outrigged genoa sheet?

How does the preventer work -- where is it attached? I had one made up that clips onto the end of the boom, and them attaches to the eye where the genaker sheet blocks attach ... I worry about that holding in a real blow (>25kts) in the event of an accidental jibe ...

Relatedly, we never take in our genaker without first unfurling our genoa; the stress on the genaker furling is too great, and we struggle. Using the genoa to backwind the genaker works well for us.

Gybing the genaker likewise is a challenge, since the slot between the genoa headstay and the genaker furling is so tight, so we typically take in our genaker nearly all the way, and then gybe.

Finally, does anyone know what the padeye that's located midships just forward of the mainsheet traveller blocks is for? Seems too flimsy for a preventer ...

Best/jon

[jglauds]

... also, for better or worse, we fly the genaker on a run all the time, only we never use the main ... we can make about 5-6 knots comfortably ... again, sea state/swells and our intended course govern whether it makes more sense to head up and run with both sails (usually to a lot of yawing and pounding and slapping) or just take our time ... we find going slow gets us there faster ...

/jon

[Gordon]

jglauds,
Will you be sailing to Sydney and our waterways at all, if so please get in touch.
Gordon.

[yeloya]

Hi Jon,

I've first seen the rigging that Gordan was suggesting (genoa sheet attached to midship cleat) on the delivery of my boat from Palermo to Marmaris. The delivery skipper thought this was the best way as the sheet of Genoa in Orana runs pretty much inside and missing big chunk of the wind when running. Later I used this configuration pretty often when the wind is aft the beam. The cleat (theoritically) should perfectly stand as this maybe subject to much heavier loads when docked and exposed to heavy lateral winds.
Actually what I've noticed, if the wind is above 18-20 knots, whatever way you go, the boat reaches very respectfull speeds. (9-10 knots) The trouble is on long passage particularly with some swell, keeping the boat on wing on wing with standard rigging is a challenge and one must steer manually all time. (impossible..)
On the other hand, I personally don't like to use much maiin sail on down wind
sailing. When you make the proper trimming on the main, you have to let it go as much as possible and then the sail is laying on the shrouder lines and damaging the sail and the battens. If you don't make it, then the main doesn't d much good.
Any time I have to let go the main a bit further I take a preventer taking a line from under the boom to the midship cleat. I am not sure how strong these small rings under the boom are but I have had couple of accidental gybe and they kept..
After all the discussions, I am now planning to use a symetrical spinnaker out of the bows without bow sprit for down wind sailing. (main being down) I will make some trial sailing to find out how easy is the handling and how comfortable is the autohelm..
After all, I agree with you that keeping the boat in good shape and the crew happier is the overall priority on long passage. Arriving one day earlier or later doesn't change the picture much.
By the way do you carry any kind of drag and or sea anchor for heavy weathers and have you ever used them ? I am still trying to decide on what to take with me..

Cheers

yeloya

[Aluna]

I attached my preventer to a midship cleat and partly pulled it off. According to Fountaine Pajot the cleats should only be used for mooring ! In fact most of my cleats are coming off and I have seen this on other Oranas as well. FP do not wish to improve the cleat fixings as this is standard on all their boats for the past 20 years.

Letting the main and traveller right out on a cat on a run was quite a discussion at happy hour. One cat sailor advocates for pulling the traveller windward of center. This is infact described in the Lagoon 440 users manual, where it recommends the traveller 1 m to windward with upto 2m of main sheet out while running. I have certainly found the genoa flies better with the main in a bit, but not to that extreme. Does anyone have more experience with the main/traveller position when running ?
Richard

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Hi all you Orana owners out there, just a general inquiry.
Has anyone had clutch slippage/failure to engage with the S130 saildrive coupled to the Volvo engines, for that matter any owners with this saildrive fitted to their boat.
The engine hours when this appears to happen are around the 800 Hr. mark.
Regards Gordon.

See the Volvo Penta Service Bulletin, linked by Jon (post #67); which says, in part:

“... For problems concerning sliding / delayed engagement
Volvo Penta recommend change of disk package
and replacing the oil with engine oil SAE 15W-40...”

Post 67 Here ➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ops-38652.html