Orana 44: In General

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

Alan

You love boat bashing...don't you ?being Orana or Mahe !!!
If I recall, ont he Mahe forum some of the real owners were not too happy about your comments!and they are using their boats....some across the oceans.So ?
Boat building is not an exact science.We do built custom boats as well ( Multiplast) and they are great.Pricing for a 60' is 4 time the price of a production 60...it keep custom boat as a niche.and make them very difficult to resale .One guy dream is not necesseraly everybody's dream.
Also a lot of bad to very bad custom boats built by yards which have never built a multihull before.They are learning at the owner expanse
FP has built over 200 Lavezzi ( in the boats which are in production) and very few -contrary to Lagoon-go to the charter fleet.I saw them in all corners of the world from South Chile to New Zealand ,from Singapore to the Maldives.....and we do have happy owners as you can see on the forums or web site.Obviously we cannot please everyone but at the end it is boat value .
So please look positive

I did say there would be some flack

pguillemin, I don't think I'm boat bashing, someone asked for advice, and I'm giving my views, if you consider that boat bashing then fine.

I think my posting was balanced and not as negative as you are trying to make out.

If you reread my last post, you will note that I didn't mention any make of boat, and I also advised that a good surveyor be used, regardless of whether it was a custom or a series boat.

Isbolick wanted a high quality boat, I don't think the boats you import to the US are high quality boats, they are reasonable quality at a reasonable price IMO as I think is fairly clear in my post.

I have visited the factories in France, and had a close look at the way the boats are built. I have owned a Tobago since 2000. A couple of my friends have bought Tobagos on my reccomendation and after sailing with me.

If you can't handle the fact that someone with a marine engineering background and 20 years experience as a cat owner says things as he sees them, then bad luck. Your comments are not going to get me to keep quiet, when people who don't have alot of experience ask for advice, or if people with a problem with a certain type of boat (like on the Mahe thread you mentioned) are unsure of how demanding they should be of a supplier who is trying to duck certain design or quality issues.


This is a forum not a sailing magazine where the opinions stated have to take account of the fact that income from advertising could be lost if a review is too negative.

pguillemin may I suggest that you register yourself on this forum as a vendor, so all can see where you're coming from and draw their own conclusions as to who might have a commercial interests in a given thread.

I'm also looking forward to seeing your answer to jzk's statement of how second hand charter boat prices drive down the price of all the boats of that type.

Maybe you could even take some current or recent examples of sales that disprove the 7 year old 30-50% depreciation statements?

Regards

Alan

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

Good morning
It is true that charter boats will take the price down some .But we also have clients looking for boats that we maintained or never chartered.
In the best of case chartering will multiply the use and wear by 6 to 7.
Worth case scenario ......don't even go there as the mainteance is done to a minimum in the Islands
Some comapnies will also give you a better boat after a few years of chartering that what they started with ....but they are few
Alos your example is good .A Leopard will be cheaper after charter use and the boats have been built for the charter trade ...so they are cheaper to start with.why?
I think that you need to like what you want then rationnalize and sometimes make work
Priority is ; strengh and sailing abilities .That what will make the difference when you are living aboard.You can always add hatches for ventilation or cabinets for storage but there is nothing you can do when you start with a bad design or a boat design for sitting at a dock
call me if you want to talk about it
Philippe at 954 609 9345

Go on then, I'll bite.
Before I do though I'm not sure if a comercial vendor for FP should be commenting on their individual and obviously biased opinion on a competitors cat by adding these sort of remarks after talking about Leopard?

You will see I am collecting my new Leopard 46 in a couple of months and somewhat resent the comments of "bad design" and "designed to sit at a dock" and I'm darn sure that Gino Morrelli, the designer, will resent it even more. I agree that Leopards have historically been designed for charter because that was always their biggest market. R&C will produce 100 boats this year, 54 of them are for private owners and the remainder are destined for FC marine charter so the tide has turned, so to speak. My reasoning behind this is due to the new designs of the 40 and 46 which are not only suited to charter but for private owners that wish to live aboard and cross oceans safely.

Congratulations to the guys who have ordered the new Orana's and have been brave enough to post on here opening themselves up to a potential wave of people knocking their decision. Lets all hope we have all chose the right boat to suit our needs.
Adaero

[pguillemin]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

I did say there would be some flack

pguillemin, I don't think I'm boat bashing, someone asked for advice, and I'm giving my views, if you consider that boat bashing then fine.

I think my posting was balanced and not as negative as you are trying to make out.

If you reread my last post, you will note that I didn't mention any make of boat, and I also advised that a good surveyor be used, regardless of whether it was a custom or a series boat.

Isbolick wanted a high quality boat, I don't think the boats you import to the US are high quality boats, they are reasonable quality at a reasonable price IMO as I think is fairly clear in my post.

I have visited the factories in France, and had a close look at the way the boats are built. I have owned a Tobago since 2000. A couple of my friends have bought Tobagos on my reccomendation and after sailing with me.

If you can't handle the fact that someone with a marine engineering background and 20 years experience as a cat owner says things as he sees them, then bad luck. Your comments are not going to get me to keep quiet, when people who don't have alot of experience ask for advice, or if people with a problem with a certain type of boat (like on the Mahe thread you mentioned) are unsure of how demanding they should be of a supplier who is trying to duck certain design or quality issues.


This is a forum not a sailing magazine where the opinions stated have to take account of the fact that income from advertising could be lost if a review is too negative.

pguillemin may I suggest that you register yourself on this forum as a vendor, so all can see where you're coming from and draw their own conclusions as to who might have a commercial interests in a given thread.

I'm also looking forward to seeing your answer to jzk's statement of how second hand charter boat prices drive down the price of all the boats of that type.

Maybe you could even take some current or recent examples of sales that disprove the 7 year old 30-50% depreciation statements?

Regards

Alan

I can handle anything.everybody is an expert and that's fine.I also introduce myself as a dealer and importer for FP .It is in my profile.So no hidden issues here.
Only difference is that I am sailing on all the cats big and small and I have been building them and captaining them ( as well as big yachts),and have been doing so for 30+ years. So I am happy with what I bring in .
And I am not trying to make any boat look bad.Most of them have a purpose but what I do not like is your boat bashing of Orana and Mahe ( to the point of pissing off owners) without even knowing the boat
I understand your expertise on Tobago 35 and your years of marine engineering but that do not make up for miles on the water.
Pricing
We are selling new and used boats and some boats keep their value as I stated in my other post.
We are selling Maryland 37 ( 2003 and 2004 ) for what owners paid for in 2003 /2004
we are sailing Bahia for more money that what they were worth new
We are selling Magic Cat ( 82' Multiplast) for more that she was worth new 11 years ago.
So it is maintenance ,maintenance

[pguillemin]

Originally Posted by Adaero

Go on then, I'll bite.
Before I do though I'm not sure if a comercial vendor for FP should be commenting on their individual and obviously biased opinion on a competitors cat by adding these sort of remarks after talking about Leopard?

You will see I am collecting my new Leopard 46 in a couple of months and somewhat resent the comments of "bad design" and "designed to sit at a dock" and I'm darn sure that Gino Morrelli, the designer, will resent it even more. I agree that Leopards have historically been designed for charter because that was always their biggest market. R&C will produce 100 boats this year, 54 of them are for private owners and the remainder are destined for FC marine charter so the tide has turned, so to speak. My reasoning behind this is due to the new designs of the 40 and 46 which are not only suited to charter but for private owners that wish to live aboard and cross oceans safely.

Congratulations to the guys who have ordered the new Orana's and have been brave enough to post on here opening themselves up to a potential wave of people knocking their decision. Lets all hope we have all chose the right boat to suit our needs.
Adaero

Adaro
Sorry
I was not comenting about the Leopard.I know that the new boats are good and are going to private use and would not insult Morelli or Melvin.
Was just saying that there is a lot of bad cats out there ( mostly older designs which have been streched or modified ) and when you end up with a bad boat there is nothing that you can do about it
And indeed, I introduced myself as importer dealer for Fountaine Pajot.But we sell and brokered all boats.Industrie is too small to fight over it
And stop by Fort Lauderdale to show us your boat
We have hot coffee brewing

[pguillemin]

Sailing Log of a Mahe 36

Some owners are happy and cruising

[DtM]

Hey Gordon and Louise,

That is some boat.

Thanks for showing us around.

daniel and elaine

[careka]

Any more about the Orana 44, good or bad. We like the looks.

[Gordon]

Hi 'careka' we have had our Orana for 18mths now and are more than pleased with our purchase. The layout is very comfortable and a pleasure to live aboard for extended periods. Performance is good without hull slap, we recently sailed home with main and genny in 12-15kt abeam breeze with boat speeds of 8-10 kts and as breeze built up to 23kts we were surfing along at 16.5kts all on autopilot and very comfortable. Not many build faults just a couple of gell coat blemishes and a minor water leak both easily fixed.The layout of winches and controls makes it a very easy boat to sail on your own. We have the optional 40HP Volvo engines giving an 8kt motoring speed with 2200RPM, also the Carbon Fibre bow sprit for the genny,which by the way has an endless furler again very simple and easy to use. We have solar with a Victro Pheonex Inverter/Charger (3Kw.) and have also 240v. throughout with a Bose sound system and 26" LCD TV. have also installed a Furuno 8.5" NavNet 3D chartplotter. still only coastal cruising so yet to fit radar and watermaker these will come closer to the journeys offshore.

[careka]

Thanks, Gordon, but where did you have leaks. ?

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Hi 'careka' we have had our Orana for 18mths now and are more than pleased with our purchase. The layout is very comfortable and a pleasure to live aboard for extended periods. Performance is good without hull slap, we recently sailed home with main and genny in 12-15kt abeam breeze with boat speeds of 8-10 kts and as breeze built up to 23kts we were surfing along at 16.5kts all on autopilot and very comfortable. Not many build faults just a couple of gell coat blemishes and a minor water leak both easily fixed.The layout of winches and controls makes it a very easy boat to sail on your own. We have the optional 40HP Volvo engines giving an 8kt motoring speed with 2200RPM, also the Carbon Fibre bow sprit for the genny,which by the way has an endless furler again very simple and easy to use. We have solar with a Victro Pheonex Inverter/Charger (3Kw.) and have also 240v. throughout with a Bose sound system and 26" LCD TV. have also installed a Furuno 8.5" NavNet 3D chartplotter. still only coastal cruising so yet to fit radar and watermaker these will come closer to the journeys offshore.

Hi Gordon
Glad to see you are enjoying your Orana. The Orana was on our shortlist before we ordered the Leopard and managed to spend quite a lot of time climbing all over one whilst in "La Rochelle" (good name by the way).
We had quite a list of minor faults on ours and I'm interested how FP reacted to warranty claims etc.. A friend of ours had an early Orana Hull number and has had a rough time with them, whats your experience?

[yeloya]

Hi Adaero,

As you probably know I am an owner of Orana #24 and am running a charter operation and servicing boats. Our fleet is exclusively made of FP cats. Generally speaking, I must say they are free of major problem. (with the exception of one Lavezzi who has a chronicle osmosis problem..) Every time we had an quality issue with FP, they reacted positively. We simply did the job, invoiced to FP and they paid the bill. Once again, they weren't big issues so far. But even in the case of Lavezzi, they haven't hesitated paying the significant amounts. When we needed spare parts, they have sent them within a reasonable period of time.
Cheers

Yeloya

[Gordon]

Hi Adaero, we had a leak thru the attach bolts for the jammer on the roof (the main halyard) and also one of the fwd deck hatches,quite easy to fix. The agents here in Australia have been very supportive and react instantly we get in touch also have had their own shipwright fly down to carry out the fixes on our boat.We have had other warranty issues -the autopilot pump and actuator and auto float switch in the shower sump pumpout, the factory in France sent out replacements express and they were installed by the agents here in Australia.No complaints they have been very supportive in France.

[Adaero]

Gordon/Yeloya

It sounds like FP have got their act together and are looking after you well.

Its nice to hear from 3 owners (2 FP & 1 Leopard) with positive reports about what they have bought.
Have fun sailing and enjoy your boats.

[careka]

Yes, Thanks Gordon.

[lavi08]

Hi Yeloya,

can you please tell me how old is the Lavezzi that had the osmosis problem? and what do you mean chronicle osmosis problem? was the problem fixed?

I appreciate your comments, we have a Lavezzi 2008 and I'm afraid to have some kind of surprises later on.

thanks for your in puts

lavi08