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Old 22-11-2018, 12:25   #61
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Location: Mooloolaba, Queensland, Australia
Boat: 2015 Fountaine Pajot SABA 50
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaLulu View Post
I managed to squeeze over the top of the genset on our Helia, removed the aft shroud and was able to replace the zinc with blind application of a socket wrench. Can’t speak to the other tasks.
I was able to Service the Cummins Onan on my Helia 44 as well. But this is another situation, and a larger Gen-set, and it is not laid out the same...

Helia 44 now Blessed to be on the Saba 50
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Old 23-11-2018, 11:37   #62
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Hi
Yes. FP say so sorry will not put in deck hatch nor interested in modifying to access area
Regards
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Old 27-11-2018, 19:30   #63
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikigai View Post
Hi
Yes. FP say so sorry will not put in deck hatch nor interested in modifying to access area
Regards
Sorry Ikigai, but that was predictable. F.P. are not going to stop Production for any Custom Features. The only hope is that if enough people SQUAWK about this oversight, they will modify the deck mould to accommodate this access hatch accordingly…

Now, for the construction notes, done with notes per picture in order….

Picture 1) This is the cut out. The bulk was done with a 7 ¼” in line worm drive saw, like what is called a Skillsaw in your country. Done here with a Makita in line blade saw. It will only kick back because of the direction of the cut. I had a strong Cabinet Maker friend hold down the front of the table of the saw, tight to the deck. I started the cut with the table up about 45 degrees in the back, and plunge cut straight down and then forward to just the inside corner of the well drawn out cut- marked out. There are two cuts per side. After getting to the corner, running on the flat of the table of the saw, you let the saw wind down before removing it. Then you turn around and cut the other direction to the corner. You drop the saw into the cut, NOT running, and then with four firm hands you fire it up in the existing cut and go down to the next corner. Anyone familiar with this kind of saw will know what I am talking about…
Then to finish it out, you have the radius of the saw cut to clean up with a jig saw in each direction of each corner. You cut opposite corners, and then put down big glass pane type suction cups on the deck to hold it in place, and you cut the remaining corners. You may need a little silicone to keep the suction cups firm, but that will hold them tight so after the last cut you lift the whole deck piece out…
Note, the stiffness of the Balsa Core with fibreglass under and over and the box section dividers of the balsa, make this whole deck very strong and rigid. There was no flex in the deck even after the cut out…

Picture 2) This is gutter that goes underneath the edge. The gutter is 50x50 mm in my case, and a 25mm flange out to go under the deck on the fibreglass. It is already sanded to take the Sika type polyurethane adhesive sealant, and I hand sanded the fg underneath with 80 grit and took out any bumps with a grinder. The inner flange, inside the 50x50mm gutter, is 9mm lower, to allow for the application of an automotive door welt for a sealer. The tight welt hammers on and the tubular rubber seal is like a car door seal and it compresses to about 9 mm loaded up…
I drilled holes on the outer flange every 50 mm, so I could screw it up from underneath with a Ryobi angle battery screw driver, after drilling pilot holes in the underneath fg…

Picture 3) This is a rig I made up, two boards across the top seat to seat in cockpit, and two boards underneath the gutter frame, to hold it in place. I used Fast Set “Matrix” pure polyurethane fast setting caulk, liberally all over the outer 25mm flange, a fat bead, and the two board hold it in place with strong Bungie cords.. It was structurally sound in about six hours…
Then I drilled small pilot holes into the fg in the holes I had drilled in the stainless flange, and put in about ¾” long stainless screws all the way around to supplement the gutter flange structural adhesion…

Picture 4) Shows the gutter in place, adhesive caulked in place, and screwed in place… Note ERROR, I put it too close to the edge of the Cummins Onan, and could not get screws in that side… However, it is still massively strong…

Picture 5) Here is the welt hammered on, roughly cut to 45 degrees for the corners, the hatch sits proud about 4-5 mm, you have to stand on it to compress this auto door welt rubber seal… It will be virtually water proof to the inside, any water weeping in will go into the gutter and out the two drains.

Picture 6) With four stainless D-ring latches close to the ones used on the engine room hatch, it is a real bugger, hassle to adjust them to where they turn and hold the hatch down tight and level with you standing on it to compress the rubber welt… Now, it is a hassle, and you have to drill in a two inch hole saw cut from each side, and I set them in silicone, and it bloody well took all afternoon to get it right… They are adjustable, in this case I had to assemble them in place sitting in the silicone sealant, sealed the balsa core in silicon sealant as well, inside the whole saw cut out..

Note: Before this stage I had sealed the whole cut out edge of Balsa Core, both cut out and hatch, with West System Epoxy, three coats…..

Anyway here it is, stand on to turn the ¼ turn latches like on the engine room hatch. The white spots are Sika, where I Sika down acrylic strips that the big 100 litre fish freezer sits on. You can see pictures of it in place earlier in this Thread… It will have to be moved to access this hatch. There is storage in there for a whole year of oil changes, filters, oil, belts, impellers, all the maintenance materials for a year or more, and still more room to use…

While doing this, with the great access, I also boiled out the heat exchanger with CLR (Calcium, Lime, and Rust remover)… And boy did it boil up. I will probably do this every 500 hours, it did not take long…

NOW THE FINAL, picture not included: What is coming to finish it off is I have a 30 mm wide picture frame, with counter sunk holes on the inside at 100 mm spread, of 3mm mirror stainless, with TIG welded corners, rounded edges and all polished up. This will screw on to the inner hatch, and lap outside the cut out on the deck by 15 mm. Any water that gets in would just be a weep, maybe a litre of all day raining. I may not even run the drain hoses to a thru hull in the hull tunnel as planned, right now they just go to the starboard engine room bilge…

More to come..
Kind regards, Steven, Master of the Saba 50 “Serenity”
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Old 27-11-2018, 20:29   #64
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Thanks for the last pics. Was interested to see what it looked like closed and how it sealed. Is it finished or are you adding hatch handles? How do you open it? I also wonder if you can add a mildly compressible rubber gasket around the edge of the hatch that will compress flush with the deck when closed.

As for FP... pretty sure the Saba is near the end of its life cycle and the replacement (using the new design language of the Astrea, 45, Saona, and Alegria) is near. Here's hoping they keep the usable foredeck lounge functionality of the Saba and poach the new 45 salon layout. Perhaps they will address your genny accessibility concerns on the new model.
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Old 28-11-2018, 18:33   #65
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

It is not quite finished. Here is the update as I loaded the wrong picture in the last post... Re-read the construction notes with these following pictures in place of the directions for item 6 in the above post:

Here is a picture of the hatch with the D-Ring handles like the engine room... First picture.

Second Picture: Close up of the turning D-Ring latches, that turn an arm underneath the stainless gutter edge

Third Picture: D-Ring Latch folded up and turned to the open position just like the engine room latches... Note that it compresses so hard on the seal that you have to stand on it to turn the D-Ring latches...

Fourth picture is a close up of the seal. It is a hammer on welt, that crushed down like a car door seal.. You actually have to stand on the hatch, crushing down the welt, to open the D-Rings...

What is to come yet is the 30mm wide, 3mm thick, rounded edges, stainless picture frame surrounding the opening. It will ride 15 mm on the hatch screwed down every 100 mm, and 15 mm on the deck. I could put a small bit of rubber tape around the picture frame stainless to seal between it and the deck, but I don't think I would bother. The gutter and drains would not collect 1 litre in a solid day of rain.
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Old 02-12-2018, 20:27   #66
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Hello Fountaine Pajot Lovers....

Here is my latest project finished.. The stainless surrounds are mirror stainless, 30mm wide, 3mm thick, so I could linish and round the edges... Tig welded 45 degree corners, linished and polished to look seamless...

The access hatch now gives me the other side of the Cummins Onan. I have cooked out the heat exchanger, changed the anode, and it give me access to adjust the alternator belt and starter and solenoid if required...

AND: Another storage hole, here shown with excess length of non-toxic drinking water hose and diesels maintenance oil and zincs for sail drives..

I am very happy with the job. Not bragging here, just happy with my innovation and ingenuity and the end product.... It is touch being a Pioneer, some time you hit diamonds, some times coal, this one turned out diamonds!!!

This one was a real worry, turned out great, but what a sweat when you are going where "No Man has gone before"....

Saba 50 "Serenity" hull #15, and in love til "Death do Part"
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Old 17-12-2018, 23:40   #67
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Hello Gourmet Yacht Lovers...

Here is my next project... And NOTE: Fountaine Pajot, you did wonderful engineering on the the best looking and the best sailing yacht in this class, but in my opinion these front hatches are a real boo-boo (error)..

(Picture 1)

You cannot leave them open, obviously in the rain, or sailing up wind with salt spray coming over the bow in medium conditions... A forward opening Lemar hatch like the Helia had would have been better. Then again also the extra matching hatch over head under the eyebrow for ventilation when you are away. This is a problem, in the tropics it just gets too hot...

So, I should take out the whole front panel and replace it with Lemar Hatches and overhead smaller matching hatches like I did on the Helia 44.. Refer to the Topic: IMPROVEMENTS IN THE HELIA 44...
But right now that is too big of a job for me. Sooo, I made a clear cover, slide in track at the top, zippered at the bottom, and it rolls up in good weather. It stays down sailing and in rainy weather but allows ventilation OK..

(Picture 2)

[IMG]AA Hatch 3.jpg (179.8 KB)[/IMG] (Picture 3)

Darn, I still cannot be Techno enough to get the hang of loading pictures in the context of the text.. Hmmm I am a dinosaur.. Anyway a fair try, pictures are below..

In fair weather it rolls up out of the way for more ventilation, zips down when you are not around..

Then you need to make a little dam up around the mast step as that runs out over the hatches as well.... Picture 4 shows the fibreglass dam in place looking up under the eyebrow, with two 3/4 drains out the sides, and hose out the to the far side of each hatch.. Picture 5 is a side shot of the same...

(Picture 4)

(Picture 5)

Then in the last picture, Picture 6, is looking down at the mast step bottom, where the piece of fibreglass has the two 3/4" drains to drain the rain water away. It is all glued in place with a strong polyurethane adhesive caulk, and sealed around the edges with clear silicone. Not being in direct sunlight it should last 10-20 years. Now the hatches can stay open, and not suffer any water damage in the rain...

Picture 6


Any way, my latest improvement.. A Tip, seal the top slide in the track of the clear and canvas with silicone as well, so you don't get any drips. You can still tear the silicone out of the track if you need to remove it...


FOR THE TROPICS: (In this case the Great Barrier Reef Islands)
It is not as good of ventilation as the Lemar Hatches I show you in IMPROVEMENTS TO THE HELIA 44... But it is better than nothing. Leaving the hatches open in the tropics when you are not there is necessary to keep the refrigeration going, and the power draw down for the refrigeration and freezer, but you suffer water damage in the rain. This with the door open, allows for a bit of ventilation even in the rain, and the hatches can be left open any time you are away without having run air conditioning like you do dockside...

Any way, my answer to this design flaw... Any opening hatches are prone to leaking in driving rain and wind, but if you do not have air conditioning on dockside it can get quite hot inside and the freezer starts to thaw and the refrigeration fails to keep everything nice. This system also allows more ventilation sailing without the salt spray worry coming in the hatches...

Should I keep these improvements coming? Or is this all too much already..

Blessed to have the only SABA, 50 double Maestro now, in Australia... Living just below the GBR, and go north to the hundreds of islands in GBR in winter each year (sort of June thru October safe travel in the southern hemisphere)...
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Old 18-12-2018, 09:10   #68
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Thanks again for the pics. You do such a great job in giving a level of detail that naturally answers a lot of questions.

What do you think of the forward hatch on the new FP 45? Would this solve your issues. It looks like you'll be able to crack it open just a bit for ventilation while underway and the glass will still block wayward spray.

Since FP is changing the design language of the entire line, I'm guessing a Saba replacement is well under way and will use many of these new features shown on the 42, 45, 47, and 67.

Whatever the redesign looks like, I really hope they address your access and servicing issues as maintenance that is easier to do is more likely to be done on time and correctly.

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
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Old 28-12-2018, 18:10   #69
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalas View Post
Thanks again for the pics. You do such a great job in giving a level of detail that naturally answers a lot of questions.

What do you think of the forward hatch on the new FP 45? Would this solve your issues. It looks like you'll be able to crack it open just a bit for ventilation while underway and the glass will still block wayward spray.

Since FP is changing the design language of the entire line, I'm guessing a Saba replacement is well under way and will use many of these new features shown on the 42, 45, 47, and 67.

Whatever the redesign looks like, I really hope they address your access and servicing issues as maintenance that is easier to do is more likely to be done on time and correctly.

Again, thanks for sharing your knowledge and experiences.
Thank You for the kind words Thalas, I hoped my 45 years of fixing up yachts would inspire or help others. Now that I am semi-retired I have more time.

Now on the F.P. 45, F.P. have wisely incorporated some of the really popular ideas on the SABA 50, only on a much smaller scale. Like the overhead entertaining area called the Sky Bridge... And the front seats, with back rests and leg wells on the Saba, they are using these very popular features on the 45 just smaller. Good on them.

However, that front hatch has only a little weather advantage. You are never directly facing the wind, and the salt spray will come around the edges to ruin the wood work. In calm wind light rain it will work, but again the same applies in heavy rain from the off center front or sides, it will blow in the edges and ruin woodwork. So, in a word, no. It is better than the stupid side hinged inward opening windows on the Saba, all stupid style and no go, but not good enough. The Saba hatches are one of only a few design flaws, but hey nobody is perfect.. I may take out my whole front window and put in two vertical opening Lewmar hatches, maybe even over-sized to allow for window to remain inside the opening hatch to stop most of the spray and rain coming in off center. THAT could work. In the mean time, my front clear over the hatches allow them to be open in all weather for ventilation per the last post above..

Now on the SABA replacement, no, the F.P. Rep for the Southern Hemisphere says no, and people are still ordering the SABA 50. I cannot see hardly any improvement, except the the Engineering faults i have named in the Thread (and fixed)... Nothing I hear of in the works. Probably, will just be a marketing blitz when it does happen. I will no doubt stop right here with the SABA 50..

And thank you for the appreciation. Here is the next one, in planning for a few months, three canvas shades with reinforcing patches. The first picture shows the structural layout of all three up. One on each side, and a tent in the front over the front seats. As you sit at anchor, you are facing the breeze, and this is another fully shaded spot, cool and comfy for sundowner drinks..

The trick is to have these up and still have access to walk forward. The solution is double snaps at the canvas, the squeeze type black snaps. You walk forward to each and snap- the canvas loose from the tie straps. The canvas then either folds down over the window or tucks up over the coach roof, and stays put on the slide on tracks at the top of the canvas.

The front boom tent is the same, unsnap it on one side and go forward folding it over on to itself.

Now why bother? HEAT.... In the tropics like the Great Barrier Reef, it is 70-80 F in the winter. The light coming in heats up the main Salon 10 degrees hotter and your fridge freezer starts to labor. 90-100 F in the summer, and it is worse. These shades knock off 10-15 degrees F, blocking the sunlight while allowing a breeze. Back home at my dock in Mooloolaba it is now summer and quite hot, like 80-90 F most days. In hot spell really hot days it approaches 100 F sort of 36-38 C, and then I have to have the canvas up AND the air conditioning on like both in the main salon or the freezer starts to thaw out...

There are a few tricks, on the pictures below you can see a spinnaker halyard lifting the peak of the forward tent so to speak. There is an opening at the back that allows the breeze through to minimalise any bucking of the tent in 20-30 kts. Also all the double snap ties are extra length adjustable for the tension you want. They all fold up and go away in 10-15 minutes for sailing, this is more for when you are tied up in port or at an anchorage for a few days or more. It really does help a lot...

Three, one port and starboard the full length of the windows, and one over the front that can un-snap each side.. Hope this inspires some, you suffer in the tropics as you are only visiting. It takes one season to acclimatize, but we don't stay because of the Hurricane Season (Cyclones down under)...

God Bless America, we Aussies are with you..
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Old 28-12-2018, 23:11   #70
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Even as a lagoon owner I love your posts. I only dream to be able to do the projects you have done. Keep the posts coming. Great stuff.
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:43   #71
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

I am a new owner of a Saba 50 and have been reading your posts with great interest. You are doing an amazing job improving a boat that's pretty awesome to start with. Thank you for all the details and advice.



Right now I am looking at installing a TV in the salon where the shelves are above the stairwell port-side. I tried to figure-out how to remove the panel but I can't see any screws or fasteners. It looks like FP has some clever way of hiding the fasteners. I'll need to also add some electric sockets in heads and other areas as well, so I have to figure-out how to get into these spaces.


I am buying a new tender and I followed your advice about getting the largest possible, so I am getting a 4m Gala alu with a 30hp Evinrude (not final yet on choice of motor brand). I am mindfull about the weight on the davits so I'll probably go for a 30HP. FP says the max shouldn't be more than 100kg per davit. You obviously have a larger (and cooler..) tender and do not seem to have any issues with the weight... your thoughts..?



I live in LA but the cat is in Cannes, so it'll be another 2 months before I can get back there.


Cheers
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Old 05-02-2019, 13:00   #72
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

I thought most FP davits were rated at 150 Kilo. Is that not right?
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Old 05-02-2019, 13:54   #73
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Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatDAzur View Post
I am a new owner of a Saba 50 and have been reading your posts with great interest. You are doing an amazing job improving a boat that's pretty awesome to start with. Thank you for all the details and advice.

Right now I am looking at installing a TV in the salon where the shelves are above the stairwell port-side. I tried to figure-out how to remove the panel but I can't see any screws or fasteners. It looks like FP has some clever way of hiding the fasteners. I'll need to also add some electric sockets in heads and other areas as well, so I have to figure-out how to get into these spaces.

I am buying a new tender and I followed your advice about getting the largest possible, so I am getting a 4m Gala alu with a 30hp Evinrude (not final yet on choice of motor brand). I am mindfull about the weight on the davits so I'll probably go for a 30HP. FP says the max shouldn't be more than 100kg per davit. You obviously have a larger (and cooler..) tender and do not seem to have any issues with the weight... your thoughts..?

I live in LA but the cat is in Cannes, so it'll be another 2 months before I can get back there.

Cheers
Hello CatDAzur….

Look, either your layout is extremely different, or you are mistake looking at the pictures. My big main TV is on the Starboard side not port. Yes, in the stairwell overhead cabinet, but starboard. That whole cabinet does in fact slide out. There are screws around the edges and inside, with caps over them. Once you remove them the whole cabinet slides out and there is a vast space in behind it.

You can literally climb up in there and: Inside there is access to the power winches overhead in the Nav, I have three powered up. And inside below is a CruiseAire air conditioner, and it is a good area to route new power points. I have added many power points you call outlets in "Serenity" like in the lower corner of that pull out cabinet area for a DVD player, and to the starboard side of the entry door on that cabinet frame face behind the curtain where I charge hand held radios and such... In my layout it cannot be on the port side, as there is a freezer on the aft end of the stair well, and all Nav electrical and such, plus all the lounge faces the starboard side. Look at the pictures and you will understand. I am assuming you are confused and talking about starboard not port as you mentioned.

Now on Davits, mine are rated to 500 kg. I have opened up the area in inspection hatches and put larger washers in to reinforce the davits, but certainly they are far larger than the 100 kg ones on the Helia. I carry a Center Console 4.3 Metre you can see in the pictures, with a power tilt 50 hp Honda, full Garmin electronics for Nav, depth, and VHF, this dinghy is loaded like its own yacht presence... I do not know where you and Tornadosailing got those figures, the light davits on the Helia 44 were down there. These are massive by comparison!!

This is one of the major reasons I bought the SABA is the fantastic strength of the hydraulic winched davits. Here are picture of Her, the first is my introduction to Her as She was being commissioned for the first Owner in 2015, I walked aboard like She was mine and a half dozen Workers aboard did not say a word as I took a string of pictures when I was just dreaming about Her... It is a miracle I own her now, still the only SABA 50 in Australia, probably the most well equipped in the world, and I will catch up on more improvements and pictures shortly.. The LORD BLESSES those who seek to serve him, and this is certainly a Blessing, still the finest Cruising Cat in the world that can still be single handed...
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Old 05-02-2019, 13:55   #74
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Boat: 2019 Fountaine Pajot Saba 50'
Posts: 171
Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
I thought most FP davits were rated at 150 Kilo. Is that not right?
I believe the optional hydraulic davits on the Saba are rated at 175Kg ea = ~770# total capacity BEFORE Helia 44 upgrades
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Old 05-02-2019, 13:56   #75
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Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Med
Boat: Saba 50 2016
Posts: 9
Re: Improvements to the Saba 50

Here is what the manual says:
Max dinghy length
3.80 m
Max load per davit
100 kg
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