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Old 26-09-2010, 21:02   #31
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That's a good thing to check, I had a similar experience on an old monohull once.
Back to osmosis, has anyone had any experience with FPs repairs and osmosis treatment?
I’m now looking at a Lavezzi which is having it’s hulls repaired by FP and is to be covered by a two year written guarantee.
So I would like to know how good their work is and how do their guarantees stand up?
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Old 26-09-2010, 22:13   #32
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sorry sent post twice
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Old 26-09-2010, 22:51   #33
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Fresh water in bilges

Hi Guys

I have had instances of smallish quantities of fresh water in the bilges. As far as I can tell it happened when "overfilling". After tightening the tank straps it seems that the tank flexed a bit and a small leak developed around the guage mounting so about the time the water started to overflow through the hose it also started to pool on top of the tank and then head for the bilge. I used to let the water run for a bit to make sure both tanks had balanced. There is a bit of a delay with water flowing to the port tank. This took a while to diagnose!

Cheers
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Old 26-09-2010, 23:04   #34
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Second hand pricing

Hi Dragon Lady.

At the moment a new Evolution is cheaper landed in Sydney than what I paid in 2007 thanks to the A$. In 2008/9 they were significantly more expensive and hence some 2nd hand prices seem unrealistic. Wether the current A$/Euro situation lasts is anybodys guess. Extras aside it is not a bad time to buy a new one rather than 2nd hand.

I had the agents options pack which meant she was reasonably well set up but even so I spent a lot of cash setting up for cruising and I haven't finished yet - do you ever?

I have chartered an Athena and much prefer the Mahe. I don't think the extra accommodation is of any value unless you have a big family. I would avoid having more than one other couple on board at any time (even family!) so my 3rd cabin may well end up a 2nd Head at some time. All the mouldings are there so it will be an easy conversion.

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Old 27-09-2010, 19:53   #35
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Thanks Martin,

Yes the Mahe is a fantastic boat my wife loves them but we are just a bit to conservative with the dollars to go to a new boat as temping as it is.
I have my eye on an 07 in France but am also looking hard at an 04 Lavezzi in the Carribean. The extra distance puts them on about equal money which is $150K less than a new Mahe from the OZ agents.
The thing with our new found buying power in the stronger AUD is that it comes at a price of higher interest rates so high payments.
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Old 28-09-2010, 06:32   #36
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If that '04 is the one in Martinique with it's bottom peeled, I'd be very careful. I had a good look at that boat a few months ago and they had to do a very deep peel - removed all of the laminate in some points right down to the foam. The hull in areas was a lot thinner than I expected, and it was cored almost to the keels, where I thought they were solid laminate below the waterline.

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Old 28-09-2010, 18:46   #37
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Thanks Mark,

I saw your previous post on the boat that you observed in the dry dock having repairs.
I am well aware of the issue and even if the boat I'm considering is not the same boat it does have the same issue.
The vendor, to their credit being very open and honest about the problem they have even promised to send me pics of the work being done.
My concern is whether the work is being done properly by the FP people and if the guarantee is any good.
I also know in the aerospace industry that warranty payouts sometimes only cover the cost of materials but not labour.
My preference is to buy a boat that has had it’s production problems fixed correctly in the open rather than one that has them hidden.
I’ll be looking for the best surveyor I can find to make sure the repair is OK.
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Old 29-09-2010, 09:32   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The hull in areas was a lot thinner than I expected, and it was cored almost to the keels, where I thought they were solid laminate below the waterline.

Mark
They are solid laminate below the waterline. I know, as I own a Lavezzi and have had it peeled a few years back. You were probably looking at the areas around the engine bays just above the waterline which are cored. It's visually hard to tell where the waterline sits on a boat which has been peeled.

Cat hulls are all pretty thin - the dead load of a ballasted keel and the need to keep the boat light account for that. Nonetheless, it is pretty amazing (or freaky) how thin some parts of the hull are. Hence, the many crash compartments in most multihulls.
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Old 29-09-2010, 09:58   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Lady View Post
My concern is whether the work is being done properly by the FP people and if the guarantee is any good.[/FONT][/COLOR]
I also know in the aerospace industry that warranty payouts sometimes only cover the cost of materials but not labour.
My preference is to buy a boat that has had it’s production problems fixed correctly in the open rather than one that has them hidden.
I’ll be looking for the best surveyor I can find to make sure the repair is OK.
If you can observe the remedial work whilst it's being done then it's worth considering. If you're completely relying on a surveyors report after the fact then maybe it isn't. The point is that a surveyor can't actually do forensic tests - so the quality of the yard and the manufacturer are the real bottom line. (Edit-Repairs often aren't done by FP, they're done by local yards under the supervision of the local FP rep - whom I'd suggest you speak with and evaluate their commitment).

In any event, boat problems have a commercial value - if you're not sure, offer what it's worth less what you think may be required to deal with any latent problems. If the owners not happy with that keep your money in your pocket. And keep shopping!
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Old 25-10-2010, 01:49   #40
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If you can observe the remedial work whilst it's being done then it's worth considering. If you're completely relying on a surveyors report after the fact then maybe it isn't. The point is that a surveyor can't actually do forensic tests - so the quality of the yard and the manufacturer are the real bottom line. (Edit-Repairs often aren't done by FP, they're done by local yards under the supervision of the local FP rep - whom I'd suggest you speak with and evaluate their commitment).

In any event, boat problems have a commercial value - if you're not sure, offer what it's worth less what you think may be required to deal with any latent problems. If the owners not happy with that keep your money in your pocket. And keep shopping!
Just received some pretty pics of the finished hull work on the Lavezzi but none in progress.
They also made me a kind offer to have their own surveyor start the survey while the boat is still out of the water to save me the cost of a haul out.
But I have to be quick the boat is going back into the water today.
I guess I'll just have to wait and get my own surveyor and have the boat hauled out again.
I think they're also going to play hard ball on the price.
It's a good thing I'm used to dealing with people from their country or I might start getting paranoid about them trying to stitch me up.
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Old 29-10-2010, 20:34   #41
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Lavezzi Osmosis?

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Originally Posted by muskoka View Post
They are solid laminate below the waterline. I know, as I own a Lavezzi and have had it peeled a few years back. You were probably looking at the areas around the engine bays just above the waterline which are cored. It's visually hard to tell where the waterline sits on a boat which has been peeled.

Cat hulls are all pretty thin - the dead load of a ballasted keel and the need to keep the boat light account for that. Nonetheless, it is pretty amazing (or freaky) how thin some parts of the hull are. Hence, the many crash compartments in most multihulls.
I intend buying a Pountaine Pajot next year and am very confused about the extent of "hull issues" with (in particular) the Lavezzi model. In a post on 29 Sept you said you had small hull blisters and many in the rudders. Did you do a full hull peel to cure just a few blisters? I'm new to this so forgive me if I've posted this improperly. Cheers
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Old 05-11-2010, 21:13   #42
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Infusion Fountaine Pajots

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I received this info from a French company that charters and services Cat in the Caribbean:-

"All Fountaine Pajot boats built between 2002 and 2009 with infusion system can be concerned by osmisis. The shipyard finally changed the stratification technical and products."

This seems to line up with what owners are saying, the good news is the repairs and treatment seems to work as everyone has reported that there are no more problems after treatment.
Does anybody know when each of the various FP cats; Athena, Lavezzi, Belize and Bahia began being constructed with vacuum infusion methods? I can't get a handle on how large a problem (or even if it is a problem considering the number of boats FP build) the infusion method has created. I don't consider gel coat blisters a major problem but osmosis repair is something I'd truly like to avoid! I'm booking flights to the Caribbean for mid next year and find many 2005 to 2006 FP's at what appears very reasonable prices...indeed not much more than 1999 to 2001 cats! Is this an open secret among the charter fleet operators or have some charter companies always turned their boats over after 5 years? Cheers
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Old 06-11-2010, 09:33   #43
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Does anybody know when each of the various FP cats; Athena, Lavezzi, Belize and Bahia began being constructed with vacuum infusion methods? I can't get a handle on how large a problem (or even if it is a problem considering the number of boats FP build) the infusion method has created. I don't consider gel coat blisters a major problem but osmosis repair is something I'd truly like to avoid! I'm booking flights to the Caribbean for mid next year and find many 2005 to 2006 FP's at what appears very reasonable prices...indeed not much more than 1999 to 2001 cats! Is this an open secret among the charter fleet operators or have some charter companies always turned their boats over after 5 years? Cheers
My guess would be the infusion process is on a per model basis. Although this is simply a guess on my part, I can't imagine they would change the process for a model like the Belize that was vacuum bagged to an infusion process. I think it would take mold work to make the change. The various models don't live long enough to justify the cost to change the process mid-model run. I could be wrong.
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Old 06-11-2010, 15:12   #44
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I think you may find that the main problem was related to a bad batch of gel coat or the sealing layer (for want of a better description)
Many large manufacturers boast of using the resin infusion method and I am not aware of other manufacturers having this problem.
I think you may be right about changing the manufacturing process in the middle of a production run.
The injection molding process requires an inner and outer mold and the gel coat is applied as in conventional molding.
So I don't think they changed some of the other models.
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Old 06-11-2010, 16:54   #45
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Vacuum Infusion

My understanding of the vacuum infusion method is that the same mould as a wet layup is used with a system of manifolds and valves to suck the resin through the cloth in a single operation, greatly improving efficiency and retention of styrene vapours, no inner mould just the regular vacuum bag...great improvement so what's gone wrong with the Lavezzis? If a bad batch of resin were the problem wouldn't it affect the whole model range? Thank you Dragon Lady and Yeloya for bringing this problem to our attention...A few of the "bargains" I've been asking further info on have turned out to have been peeled !! The agents haven't volunteered that info in initial conversations until I asked them point blank !! Really the Lavezzi is large enough for the needs of my wife and I, but thanks to the alerts in these forums I've decided to look at the Belize and Bahia models I think. I just hope the problem is restricted to the Lavezzi because I still like the niche that FP cats fill. Someone out there must know how the various models were layed up...Cheers
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