Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-06-2012, 05:04   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Glue for Keel to Hull Attachment

Does anyone know what actual glue is recommended and or used by FP to secure the foam filled keels to the hull recepticles especially the Belize 43.
And no I did not run aground but the landing seam at the join where the keel is attached to the hull is breached and allowing water ingress between the two parts. This has obviously been going on for a lengthy time so I am concerned at what if any damage might have been done to the bottom of the hull as it would not have had any recent protective coating applied.
So if any who have had any experience in this area would care to comment that would be welcomed.
Kind regards
Wayne
__________________

__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 05:15   #2
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

FOUNTAINE PAJOT
Zone Industrielle - 17290 AIGREFEUILLE - France
Tel +33(0) 546 35 70 40 - Fax +33 (0) 546 35 50 10
Internet :
www.fountaine-pajot.com - E-mail : sav@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : info@fountaine-pajot.com
E-mail : fountaine-pajot@fountaine-pajot.com

Alexandre Derché
Fountaine Pajot customer service
alexandre.derche@fountaine-pajot.com
__________________

__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 05:24   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

3M 5200 would be my choice!
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 05:37   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Or Sikaflex ......
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 05:56   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Hey guys thank you for such quick and to the point responses, it is much appreciated.
Thank you Alexandre I have emailed them. I did not know which was the best email so I cc to all three to be sure. Hopefully I will get a reply shortly.

And also thank you to Delmarrey and MacG for your suggestions both have been noted and I will see what FP come back with. I understood that sikaflex was used at the landing seam, the actual joint formed between where the keel meets the hull but was unsure if that would have been used internally between the top of the keel and bottom of the hull. As I have never seen the keels separate to the hull I an now wondering if the actual contact points where glue/adhesive is attached is only along the edge of the keel formation. Would this be strong enough???
Does anybody have any knowledge of this?
__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 06:16   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Aussie, you could very well use Sikaflex 292 for the attachment and joining of the keel against the hull. It is a professional bonding system widely used by Dutch shipyards.
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2012, 06:46   #7
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

AussieWayne,

Maybe these pictures will help you see how they are bonded together.

Hull
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FP keel 1.jpg
Views:	324
Size:	112.1 KB
ID:	42816   Click image for larger version

Name:	FP keel 2.jpg
Views:	377
Size:	102.3 KB
ID:	42817  

Click image for larger version

Name:	FP keel 3.jpg
Views:	439
Size:	97.6 KB
ID:	42818  
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 06:51   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Thank you Mark the photos have given me a good idea of the design. I guess the Belize will be somewhat similar. Does anyone here have any first hand experience in removing and re attaching the keels on any of the FP range. if so your comments would be very welcome as well.

Also I read back through all the posts in that thread some of which were very interesting re the absence of an epoxy primer coat under the antifouling and its attendant problems. This is a situation I believe that I might have to deal with shortly so that was valuable and informative as well.
Kindest regards
Wayne
__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 06:55   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Thanks for the input guys.
Just for the record I have now been advised by Fountaine Pajot to use urethane applied to the top of the keel moulding and the edge join.
So sikaflex is the answer and the prize goes to MacG so thanks for that.

Now has anybody ever had to remove and replace the keel(s) on any of the FP range? If so please feel free to chime in here with whatever experience you have had.
Kind regards
Wayne
__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 07:16   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Seeing the clear pictures of the construction I realise that it is just a boxkeel w/o leadballast. So no secufast by using keelbolts.

In this particular case you should do the repair by using epoxyresin after cleaning the trunk and the boxkeel thoroughly with aceton or MEK.
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 07:31   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG View Post
Seeing the clear pictures of the construction I realise that it is just a boxkeel w/o leadballast. So no secufast by using keelbolts.

In this particular case you should do the repair by using epoxyresin after cleaning the trunk and the boxkeel thoroughly with aceton or MEK.
MacG
That is what I was thinking too and have sent an email to FP but haven't heard back re their recommendations.
Their previous answers have been to the point but without any detail so we will see what they come back with this time.
I think that as you say, first both parts have to be cleaned and dried then protected before re attachment, that would make sense!
I thought sealing with some sort of an epoxy primer then antifouling over that then re attaching.
The part I am not sure about is then using sikaflex on the newly painted surfaces and the continuing adhesion between the two parts.

Which then raises the other possibility and that is of just cleaning and drying the two parts and re attaching with sikaflex making sure the final seal around the joint is waterproof and then antifouling over the sikaflex joint and surrounds.
Not sure so am trying to gather as much information as possible to make the right decision so thanks for your input.
Kindest regards
Wayne
__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 08:01   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Forget about using the Sikaflex type of adhesives. No use except when it concerns a ballasted keel where the required strength of the connection comes from the keelbolts and Sikaflex is used as an intermediate to prevent leakage through the boltholes.

It is totally unclear to me why FP used this type of moulding. But then, I have no experience with Cats. And certainly not with the big ones.

The way to do is glueing in and the use of an epoxy primer is only required when you glue different materials, which is not the case here. Nevertheless you could seal the surfaces (after cleaning and sanding) and than glue the parts together.

In all not a very complicated job when you prepare your working procedure thoroughly.
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 15:42   #13
Senior Cruiser
 
AussieWayne's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hope Island, Gold Coast, Queensland
Posts: 191
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

MacG
The keels are designed as sacrificial so that they can break free if they encounter an underwater obstacle without breaching the actual hull. A good design feature I would think but not sure if that is how it actualy works in reality and don't really want to test that part at any time!
I am still waiting on a further response and advice from FP as to sikaflex and or sealing the parts before re attachment.
Wayne
__________________
AussieWayne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 16:05   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Holland, France
Boat: 33ft sloop
Posts: 1,091
Images: 5
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Frankly, I cannot see the overall benefit of such a construction. But again, I have no experience with big cats. Constructionwise, I would reject such a design. To me, it makes no sense.
__________________
MacG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-06-2012, 23:00   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacG View Post
Frankly, I cannot see the overall benefit of such a construction. But again, I have no experience with big cats. Constructionwise, I would reject such a design. To me, it makes no sense.
Me either! What are the chances that the rock you hit will be just keel height. And who's to say that it will not do other damage coming off.
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hull, keel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.