Lavezzi 40: FP Lavezzi vs Lagoon 410

[ejlindahl]

While chartering a monohull in Marmaris last week I happened upon a Fontain Pajot Lavezzi. I hadn't considered this at all as I do not like the galley nor the salon seating of the FP Venezia, Belize or Bahia. I was all but sold on getting a L410 but the Lavezzi was so much more ergonomic, moving about on the rear deck/cockpit, than the L410 and the saloon seating acually had a comfortable position to put your feet up or even lay out and take a nap---(which is right next to the nav station so taking the night watch will be very comfortable). So now I am considering the FP. I still don't like the Lavezzi galley -- very little counter and cupboard space but maybe I can live with it. Any one have comments particularly on performance comparison of the two or to any other cats of this size/price range
Thank you, Eric

[Hyprdrv]

Eric,
I own a 410 and love it. Cindy and I spent a week down in the Bahamas on a 43' FP and even though we tend to like the general looks of the FP we found that it was cramped and not very friendly after the week on board. The Bathrooms were small and the cabins difficult to feel comfortable in at night. Take a look at the entrance to the master cabin on the Lagoon and see how much more open the bedroom and bathroom (3 cabin version) are compared to the FP. The Lagoon has a sliding door to close the Master suite off from the rest of the boat. There is a tremendous amount of storage space compared to the FP. If you don't like the kitchen without even using it your going to find it way to small once on board an FP. The Sofa down there on an FP is a waste of space. To be fair the Lagoon 440 has one to and it doesn't work either. The 410 has a cabinet space behind the salon seating (facing the slider)which has become invaluable. As far as the rear deck is concerned the walk through on the FP is a nice, great to get on board but once on board not a good use of space. The Lagoon has several exterior cabinets that come in quite handy once on board. Also I believe there is more seating room and a larger rear cockpit. The slanted windows have been argued a number of times here, I'm very happy with the added head room of the Lagoon and see no issues with safety with vertical windows. The new FP's seem to have much bigger windows with little to no mullions which I would be more concerned with rather than the vertical widows of the Lagoon. Now we aren't world travelers and I'll leave it to someone else as far as the heavy seas issues but from a weekend sailor's point of view who enjoys getting away with his lovely wife we couldn't be happier with our choice. Ours is an Electric version so performance is a knot off of the typical 410 but we sail. The 410 hull design is probably one of the better Lagoon designs for performace and I believe comparable to the Lavezzi. We didn't buy the boat to break speed records and can go plenty fast enough for our comfort level. But then I am a Lagoon owner so slightly bias. Try and find one of each and give them a fair shake down.

Steve in Solomons

[Dedzaboy]

There have been various reports of Lavezzis suffering from osmosis, possibly due to a problem during construction. If you search this forum you should find at least one thread discussing it. Friends of ours with a Lavezzi have recently found osmosis, needless to say it's just outside the 5 year hull warranty period...

[ejlindahl]

Thankyou for the replies. Looks like I am back on track for the L410 unless some else wants to chime in.

[Intentional Drifter]

In you would tell us more about what you're looking for in a cat, perhaps we could be more help. Things like performance vs accommodations; build quality; likely cruising areas; budget, etc.

ID

[ejlindahl]

ID. Thank you for your offer to help. The short answer is I've pretty much settled on the L410 due to budget realities and attraction to its design but if you have a comment on L410s performance to windward vis a vis a FP Lavezzi, Bahia, Belize or other similar cats, as well as other issues like, osmosis, construction, durability, specifice problem points I would really appreciate it.

My intention is to charter it out a couple years in Puget Sound til I retire. This will allow me to learn (and use occasionally) the boat while watching how the charter co. mechanics maintain/fix the inevitable issues. So a 4 cabin 4 head version is desired. When I retire I plan to cruise the "Salish Sea" which is a recent PC moniker given to the area from south Puget Sound to north Vancouver Is. (Its actually a handy term and I don't mind giving a nod to the regions first inhabitants.) Then after a year or so of this we'll probably circumnavigate Vancouver Is. and or sail to Alaska. Then we'll decide whether blue water is for us, perhaps taking it to Baja or beyond...... otherwise the Salish Sea offers a lifetime of coastal cruising for me and my extended family.

The features of the L410 I like are; relatively flat decks, good size ventilation, ability to see out while seated in the saloon, vert windows, nice big saloon and cockpit. I didn't like the engines under the bunks. When I chartered one in the Carib it was too hot all night, but in Puget Sound the water is 45 degrees and the evenings are cooler so heat radiation won't be so annoying. If we cruise further south visitors will be fewer and less often so we'll sleep in a forward cabin.

Being an ex dingy racer I would prefer to have the performance and pointing ability of a high performance cat. But I would only be able to afford a fixer, which I can do but would prefer not. So my budget is around $250K plus I will have a significant additional amount as a kitty to deal with the inevitable issues after purchase.

Interestingly I had a very disturbing weekend on a Catana 47 which slammed the bridge deck incessantly in some particularly steep chop, where as the L380 only pounded a couple times. Catana was already crossed off because of the exposed helm position. Otherwise that boat would be a serious contender.

So fire away and thank you.

[Intentional Drifter]

We've buddy-boated for the better part of the last two years with a 410, so I'm well acquainted with them, both positives and negatives. Of all of the more recent Lagoons, I think they are one of the best performing Lagoons and are, generally, well made. The older ones (before the S2) seem to have had a better build quality. While those big windows in the cabins let a lot of light in, you absolutely positively can never let a fender get next to one. Also, some owners have been complaining of the paint coming off of the trim. Personally, I prefer the original 410 galley layout over the S2, but neither of them have a lot of counter area.

I'm not aware of any osmosis issues that I've heard of in any of them. One of the pet peeves I've heard from several 410 owners is the lack of a rub rail from the factory. I've seen a number where owners have installed their own and this makes a lot of sense.

On my friend's 410, they did a couple of things that made a lot of sense. With the aft salon settee/storage area, they ended up moving it aft about 4 to 6". This really cost nothing in terms of space getting in/out of the salon and greatly helped getting into and out of the eating area.

You will want to replace the factory double helm seat with the "roll bar" back rest. It is really uncomfortable after a couple of hours. Otherwise, the helm position is quite good.

Carefully inspect the factory dinghy davits -- apparently there was a large run of them that were weak and if the dinghy was a bit heavy, they tended to crack, both the davits and the internal supports.

If a boat you're looking at still has the factory bilge pumps, just replace them, all of them. (By the way, I do this every year on my boat, anyway. They're not that expensive, they live in a terrible environment, and they absolutely must be reliable. Seems like cheap insurance for a critical component.)

On some of the 410's and 380's, Lagoon placed the shower sump filters in a location that was really hard to reach (under/behind the head's sink) and apparently lots of owners/charter companies just don't bother to clean them out. After a few years of build up, well, they get really smelly and can clog up. Uck. My friend ended up re-routing them.

If you're looking at one with Yanmar 40's, be sure and insist that they change out the water pump impellors. They are very difficult to reach (my friend and I spent 4-1/2 hours changing out just one) and this is a critical component. Hope you never have to actually change the water pump, as they put a motor mount right in the way -- you'll have to jack up the engine to get the water pump out. Frankly, the 27's are sufficient for this boat and don't have these problems.

If you have a choice, get a boat with the optional additional fuel tanks. The standard ones are small (2 X 26 gallons) and having twice the capacity makes a big difference when cruising.

While the 4 berth/4 head boat may appeal to the charter company, if you're really serious about cruising, I think you'll find the owner version much more suitable. They also made a few 4 berth/2 head layouts, too. The heads on the 4 head boat are very small and having "wet heads" (shower in the head) gets really old, really fast when you're living aboard. The storage spaces in the owner version are significantly better, too.

Performance wise, the 410 is a pretty good cruising cat. They'll point fine to 45, but then stall out pretty fast if you try and pinch it much past that. They'll consistently do 50 to 60% of wind speed on a reach, which is just fine. They've got good load carrying ability, but like all cats, you want to be mindful of your loading practices and try and keep the heavy stuff in the middle of the boat.

Sail handling on them is quite good and with some practice, single handed tacking can be done (a long sheet on the starboard jib helps in this regard).

If you can find one if the middle of the production range (2000 or after, but before the S2) that has conventional bow rollers and anchor handling, that is much to be preferred over the original set-up through the lower bridgedeck. I always thought that was a ridiculous place to put an anchor and my friend confirmed that it is a pain when something gets tangled, the bridle gets out of whack, or something just goes wrong when anchoring or bringing it in (which, of course, it eventually will).

I hope you don't think that I'm overly critical of the 410's -- I'm not really. All boats have their problem areas and, all in all, these aren't serious. For what you're looking at, I'm sure a 410 will serve you very nicely. You might want to consider a Hurricane Heater for our PacNW climate. I have some friends with one that really love it and say it is much quieter and more reliable than their previous Webasto.

Hope this helps.

ID

[Hyprdrv]

There are 2 410's for sale and located in Annapolis. Contact Tommy Smith at The Catamaran Co. tommy@catamarans.com I believe they are both 3 cabin models which I would highly recommend over the 4 cabin if your planning on using it personally in the future.

Steve in Solomons

[sailingSP]

hi all,
does anyone know if the later Lavezzis are less affected by osmosis? looking at buying one built 2005.

cheers,
anni