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Old 06-03-2003, 20:23   #1
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Arrow Fountaine Pajot Catamarans

Hi cruisers

I wanna get in touch with other owners of Fountaina Pajot Catamarans to exchange experienses.

Anyone else on the board with a FP-cat?
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Old 16-03-2003, 09:18   #2
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Well, Captain Gisle, I have spent many hours over the past two years looking for exactly that message. I brought a 1996 Tobago 35 home to Canada from Martinique last May, and have had tremendous difficulty finding somebody online to discuss these FP beasts. I note that you posted in December. I hope you have not given up on an answer.

Do you own a FP? What other multihull experience have you had?

I would like to discuss my many little issues with the boat. Motor mount replacements, Morse control arm replacements, whether or not to install a potable water pressure tank, cabin heaters, electrical systems, propane safety, and so much more.

What is it that you hope to discuss?

You may wish to review my member profile and check out my website. http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/corbetl/

Laurie Corbett, (Sonosailor)
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Old 17-03-2003, 10:12   #3
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Talking Very pleased to see you onboard, Laurie

Hi Laurie alias Sonosailor

This discussion board was actually launched only 3 weeks ago (late February 2003). My user was made in December 2002 as the first one (I'm the administrator) but I had to do some work on the program before I could go public with the site.

Anyway, I've checked out your website with your beautiful catamaran "Cat Tales" briefly and will study the details later.

We have a lot to chat about.

Yes, I own a FP Belize 43. It's in charter with Sunsail in the Seychelles until March 2005 (3,5 years contract). I bought the boat new in 2001.

I've never sailed a multihull before, but I love the Belize a lot. I've been sailing it in 40 knots wind and it performed fine, but I've mostly had nice tropical weather with it.

Since I plan on cruising around the world with the cat, I would like to discuss several things with other FP Cat owners. Maybe we should make a private forum for FP cat owners here? What do you say about that Laurie?
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Old 04-04-2003, 05:31   #4
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Multihulls

Gisle,

There is a forum that I frequant often. I hope to retire with a Cat in the S. Pacific. The site covers Cat's and Tri's and is very imformative. They also have the largest selection of used cats for sale and sponser a magazine that I receive bimonthly. I was just down in Florida in Janurary checking out a few cats they had at their docks.

http://www.themultihull.com/forum/

Del............._/)
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Old 04-04-2003, 06:06   #5
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Thanks delmarrey

I'm now a user at that forum too
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Old 12-04-2003, 23:54   #6
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Smile Just about to take delivery

I take delivery of my Belize in June 2003. We are equipping her for a long cruise starting with the ARC later this year. Would be happy to talk about ideas and equipment. I'm in touch with another owner too.

Regards
Allan
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Old 13-04-2003, 05:26   #7
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Great Allan

Now you have access to "Fountaine Pajot Catamaran Owners Forum" too, but so far it's only Sonosailor, you and me there. It would be great if you brought another one with you.

The board has only been online for 6 weeks, so with a little patience I'm sure we're gonna be a lot more FP Cat owners here too.

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Old 28-04-2003, 00:32   #8
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Hi Everyone,

I am a lifelong, New England Yankee sailor and have grown up with narrow beamed, monohull, Ted Hood, Bill Trip designed boats. I have a great deal of experience in these type of monohulls and believe in them implicitly in heavy weather.

But I am curious about multi's. They are growing in popularity and seem to offer quite a bit of room. I would love to know more about these boats and their characteristics offshore.

Honestly, I must tell you that I am skeptical of a boat that has an AVS of 45-90 degrees, and that once inverted, it stays that way. My Hood 38 has an AVS of 170 degrees and could be rolled and come back up the right way. I am not disparaging cats, I really do want to know more about their physics and would love to learn more.

Thanks

My best to all

John
S/V Invictus
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Old 28-04-2003, 03:01   #9
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Hi John:

There has been so much written on this debate, that I am scared to enter. It can be found in cruising periodicals, discussion forums, and over beer in most ports. The debates include speed, pointing ability, comfort, safety, myths, and the physics you suggest.

I will comment briefly on the tipping over bit. I sailed Hobies for decades, and tipping over was then part of the fun. They were made to do it, to trick the user into thinking he/she was risking death, when they were typically risking only a good dunking.

Cruising multihulls are big, heavy lugs, that go 1/3 the speed of a beach cat (although still faster than a mono, and don't typically tip over. Some have, and some will continue. Somebody, and forgive me for not knowing who, suggested that cats get in the news because if they tip over or get holed, they hang around like a giant lifeboat and leave survivors. Monohulls, when they hit the ultimate, often just disappear (sink) without any trace to suggest the problem. A keel is not always a pro, and a lack of one is not always a con.

I guess all I would say is that there are many pros and cons, and we need to consider all of them. Most importantly, we need that beer overwhich to debate the issues.

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Old 28-04-2003, 03:35   #10
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Sono, I completely agree. It is a complex issue and add to that fact there are probably many multi designs and like monohulls, some are better offshore than others.

I think your suggestion of a beer and conversation is a good one. If there are any folks in the Annapolis MD area who want to get together and trade sails on each other's boats, with some beers thrown in afterwards, I would be most willing and would reserve at place at the helm of Invictus. That might be the best way to learn. Fun too.

Still interested in any discussion here. Its a good topic...when discussed in a gentlemanly (or gentlewomanly) fashion (I know this can be like religion to some folks).

My best to all.

John
S/V Invictus
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Old 28-04-2003, 03:49   #11
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John Drake

For more info on the stability of cats and other stuff check out the site below.

http://www.cruisincats.com/HomePage.htm

I hope to be getting a Cat for the retirement years. I just have to make the dramatic move, but not ready yet. Each year they just get better and easy-er to handle with special sails and rigging.

enjoy.....DelmarRey................._/)
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Old 28-04-2003, 03:56   #12
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P. S. Click on the picture.
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Old 29-04-2003, 05:58   #13
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Hello! Thanks for the link.

I found the stability graph very interesting and informative. I think you could use it to support both arguments (though I am not arguing).

I have done some searching for offshore cats 40-42ft. It seems they are quite new and thus still very expensive...but very nice! Its easy to find an offshore capable monohull 40-42ft for well under 100k, impossible for a cat. Of course, one could argue that since a cat has more space, you need a smaller one...but in a smaller cat, the staterooms are quite a bit narrower than on a monohull..or at least they look that way.

It also seems like cruising cats (like the FP 42) have A LOT of cabins. I think I saw one ad for one with 6! Might be nice, but even IF I had that many friends, I don't think I would want all of them around

I do think it would be great to have a nice large 'patio' while at anchor in some idylic spot in the islands. But...not sure about the rest of the whole cat thing while cruising:

Yes, a mono carries ballast and can sink. But that is a very rare occurance ... the vast and overwhelming majority of boats that sink, sink at the dock due to a lack of maintenance. And, it is a fairly straightforward proposition to select a design that has less risk of sinking: a modified full keel, encapsulated ballast, limited number of through hulls, each one as well as the shaft seal readily accessable, comes to mind.

Although a cat has greater initial stability, that gain begins to slip at just 10* heel and continues south. At about 45*, a cat needs much less energy to push over than a monohull at the same heel. At 60*, its all over but the crying...while a mono still needs more to even knock her down....and a mono recovers from a knock down.

Sure, you can say that it takes a lot to get a cat to 10* heel...but then a 15-20ft wave taken abeam of perhaps even on the quarter will take the cat to 30*. Add some wind.....and you get my point. And what about a cat quartering into an oncoming sea...she dips one pontoon in and.....can pitchpole (or was that the Hobie cat I was on?)

I guess why I am asking this question is that I have seen, read and heard about monohulls getting knocked, dipping their masts, even getting rolled. It happens and has happened to even the best sailors. Certainly, there is enough energy in the ocean to do this...I don't think that would be in dispute. Thus, given this, wouldn't you say that the chances of losing a cat are greater than losing a monohull?

But I certainly like the comment by SOME people (who shall remain nameless) to the effect that a monohull drags around as much as 11,000 lbs of lead with her! Wish I could charge someone for that shipping!



At any rate...just food for thought and hopefully thoughtfull discussion.

My best to all.

John
S/V Invictus
Hood 38
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Old 30-04-2003, 02:15   #14
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upside down!!!

There's a huge difference between a Hobie, and a 40' cruiser. Lloyd's gives a 5% discount to CRUISING cats because they're safer. You don't lose control broaching. To flip over, the buoyant lee hull would have to be submerged, and the heavy windward hull would have to have an immense push to get it up in the air far enough to flip. Offshore, I carry a full load of water , nearly 100 gallons in each keel, which are my water tanks. Lotta weight!

Again, multis don't broach, they absorb the gusts and go faster. You trim the sails for the gusts, not for the steady breeze, like a mono that spills the overload of gusts.

Now, featherweight racing cats, sailed at night in 25k breeze with the spinnaker up, those are the wrecks you hear about!

And I would freak if Vinga was tilted ten degrees. Somehow, it just doesn't happen. I want one of those degree indicators.....

There's a stability factor that was studied after the disasterous Fastnet race years back. Dismasted boats were rolled more than them with sticks. And there was a formula invented they call the "Righting Moment of Inertia" Something about a wider beam being more stable. Cats are a bit wider than monomarans.


Go around a boatyad that has a few cats hauled. Ask the owner if they want to sell their boat ("NOOOO!!") Ask if they ever had a monohull, (Probably yes) Ask if they will ever go back to a monomaran, ("NOOOO!!!!")

I'll have to memorize that stability formula, or figure some way to discuss it. It's in a book by Chris White, "The Cruising Multihull".

Oh, and the length of the boat doesn't particularly make for tons more space. I'd actually prefer a much smaller cockpit.

Price? You bet, because you're buying two boats, two hulls, an extra deck inbetween, two engines, etc. I think the older boats are much better for safety, as they're overbuilt, much stronger than the nearly 100% foamcore jobbies they're building now-a-days.

Yes, "Righting Moment od Inertia". I'll go search the www to see if there's a discussion.

Cheers,

Melissa, s/v Vinga
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Old 30-04-2003, 23:32   #15
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Well...righting moment of inertia....is exactly what I am talking about. Past 45* on a cat...the RMI falls precipitiously, thus robbing the cat of any righting moment. Not sure I agree that the leeward pontoon would have to be completely submerged in order for a cat to go over. I do agree it would take a lot of force...but I contend that the ocean and ocean weather can provide that force. But, let's see.

I think we are limiting this part of the discussion to the ultimate stability of the vessal in adverse conditions...the conditions you would say a mono would founder and sink....because there would be little point to discuss the relative merits of a cat vs a monohull on a nice sunny day on a broad reach in the islands

SO, in the circumstance of heavy weather, high winds and 15-20ft seas (no matter how rare sailing through this might be): I would *think* a cat traveling through a beam or quartering sea would thus be heeled perhaps as much as 45*. I assume that an idealised 20ft wave will have a face longer than 20ft (its hypotenuse) and create a 90-45-45 triangle...thus the angle of heel for a cat going abeam would be 45*...and be at the point where its stability curve heads south in a hurry and could then well be in extremis.

Gisle...help me out here, you are an engineer and certainly get my point. Am I going in the wrong direction ....or is it that a cat, under these conditions, would HAVE to go in the direction of the wave in order to be safe?

In a monohull, we just power to windward, 30* of apparent and roll with it...does not bother us.

Anyway....just theorizing here.

And let me add, I looked at FP cats on YW....very very nice...I certainly would love to sail one.

My best to all

John
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