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Old 15-07-2009, 05:17   #151
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This tread started out with veiws on FP range of cats, keep it that way please!
I believe this discussion with the hopeless arguments presented by Neilpride is going in the totally wrong direction! The bus driver does not necessarily know how to engineer and build it!!! I believe Neilpride has shown lack uf knowledge in his argumentation with the cat minikeels vs the deep keel of mono's. They are two totally different beasts! The cat keels are only for directional stability upwind work and to leave the boat standing on while at the hard or dried out. Therefore lead or steel is as smart as lining an airplane with steel sheets!

The safety aspects of the FP keels I believe is the best around. If you ground hard the keel is ripped off hole or partly but the hull integrity is not compromised since it is affixed with Sikaflex in internal cassettes of the hull. Also to repair a damage like this would cost only s amall fraction of what would be the case for a mono in the same situation.

Also what Neilpride is claiming with a pounding situation on a reef his boat would survive better than any cat is not necessarily true. This exstreamly tough wearing keel would pound up into the hull with such force that it would break up and sink.

This is equivalent to the crumble zones in cars. The big solid built cars kill their passangers becuase nothing gives in and all the forces are transformed directly to the passangers instead of the car crubling and absorbing the crashforces. Therfore the foamfilled minikeels on the FP's function as a "bumper" absorbing a lot of these forces. They also give the boat a lot of boyance provideing better loadcarring capability.

This is NOT a cat vs mono discussion, plenty of them around in this forum.

I have owned two FP's and feel that for the price bracket you get the best cat in market. There are issues with almost all boats regardless weather they're a Hylas or Hallberg Rassy. All (at least most of us in this forum) have a budget and try to get as much boat as possible for their money. Therefore I advocate the FP range as one that provide a safe cat for a resonable price.

As said all boats suffer from the savings department at most yachtbuilders but I find that being the case with almost any yacht. Then again accepting this and do some reinfoprcements and other upgrades of your own is probably very sencible both from the point of then actually learning to "know" your boat and have reassurance.

For what it's worth I believe that the Belize 43 I know own is the best compromise for a cat for me and possibly for a lot of other couples as well.. Cannot afford a Yapluka so this does me and my wifte the best platform for sailing in the arctic waters off Norway and in the North Sea.

Happy lead free sailin!
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Old 15-07-2009, 12:58   #152
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Well sorry if i lost the FP focus, i dont blame catas, i blame the builders!! and yes the bus driver need to know what kind of buss is driving, and yes you loose the keel in a FP and still floating, but you have just this piece of foam or fiberglass or core or etc.. betwen the hull and coral, reef, sand , rocks etc... and also remember that the ruder is in the same depth that the keel.
Im just talk with the experience off crossing the pond in 6 catas for charter companys, and i have a wonderfull time for learn and see how a cata perform in a wide range off conditions, and yes there is a lot of junk monohulls in the market , every day more and more, i see jeaneaus with horrendous hull problems, so far so good.
Anyway still i have some questions about FP , 1 where to rig a stormjib? 2 where to rig a trysail ? where to rig a drogue? cleats survive this kind of punisment?
How to improve the saloon doors ? where to rig a reaching pole? how to avoid damaged the mainsail with the uppers shrouds wen sailing downwind ?
How to help the cata to point hig without the help of one engine?
How to reach the engine for repairs in storm conditions?
Just some clues?? and please dont think that im blame catamarans , is the builder the blamed: here some points i like from catas, i love the saloons , is nice to sleep close to the helm and the visibility is perfect, and i like to reach wonderfull shallow spots whit their shallow draft, and i love jump in the trampoline.
I think that catamarans builders need to improve serious things in some models ,
if i spend 200.000 to 300.000 euros in my dream im specting a bloody backing plate under the cleats.
HAPPY SHALLOW SAILING.
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Old 12-10-2009, 15:44   #153
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Lipari 41 soon to be owners

Following a test sail I have just placed an order for a Lipari 41 Maestro version and would be interested in hearing from any others with orders in for a Lipari so we can swap ideas for modifications, extras etc.
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Old 12-10-2009, 16:06   #154
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Following a test sail I have just placed an order for a Lipari 41 Maestro version and would be interested in hearing from any others with orders in for a Lipari so we can swap ideas for modifications, extras etc.
Congratulations !! Very Cool...

So what sold you on the Lipari vs say the Lagoon 400 or others you may have looked at ? Was the Orana not on the list do to size/cost ?

Enjoy !!
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Old 13-10-2009, 11:07   #155
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Toy's, what you may want to do is start a new thread called "Fountaine Pajot Lipari" so it just deals with your model boat.

2x on the congrats. I'm a FP fan also and will look forward to your postings.
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Old 13-10-2009, 13:55   #156
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There is already a thread open for the Lipari. It has 5 pages of posts.
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Old 13-10-2009, 14:31   #157
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Good observation. I had only seen the one comparing the Lagoon 410 to the Lipari.
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Old 13-10-2009, 16:24   #158
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Congratulations !! Very Cool...

So what sold you on the Lipari vs say the Lagoon 400 or others you may have looked at ? Was the Orana not on the list do to size/cost ?

Enjoy !!
Have been looking for a cat for 3 years and drew up a weighted list of needs and scored all the boats I have inspected against this 4 page list to try and make it a totally rational decision. The Belize ticked almost all of my boxes and would have gone that route but I cant fit into the engine rooms to access all sides of the motors and consider that from safety perspective this is a critical factor (and my wife said she would never be a grease monkey). If I bought an Orana couldnt afford any extras. Not impressed with Lagoons and although I have never sailed one they dont get good reviews on sailing ability. The Lagoon 400 isnt due out here until next year so havent been able to compare but the Lipari was impressive and the build quality seemed substantially better than the Lavezzi and the Lagoons I have seen. In an ideal world I would have like the Lipari to really be 41' long but overall I think it is a comfortable, well designed and well built boat so am looking forward to sailing her. Am picking the boat up from the FP factory and after fitting some gadgets and gizmos plan on sailing back to Australia via the Med / Caribbean / Panama / Pacific so am sure that I will be able to provide extensive reviews during / after that
TwT
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Old 13-10-2009, 16:48   #159
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Have been looking for a cat for 3 years and drew up a weighted list of needs and scored all the boats I have inspected against this 4 page list to try and make it a totally rational decision.
Hi TwT,

Any chance I could get a copy of your list of criteria? I'm 3 months into my research for a 44-48ft Catamaran to cruise the Pacific and Australia. I'll be at the Paris show in December to check out the new models.

Cheers!
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Old 14-10-2009, 05:18   #160
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Hi TwT,

Count me in on that list too please!
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Old 14-10-2009, 07:23   #161
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Folks, TwT PMed me last night and unfortunately he has decided to not give his list of criteria to folks on the forum right now. Apparently he's considering offering it for sale at some point in the future.
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Old 14-10-2009, 07:46   #162
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Thumbs down

I could see that list being pretty valueable. No sense in sharing it with fellow sailors seeking the same goal for free.
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Old 14-10-2009, 14:59   #163
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Ha! Believe me, folks, TwT's list probably makes a lot of sense to him and if it helps him in his search, that's great. But, "his list" and "your list" is and very likely should be, quite different. There are so many idiosyncratic variables involved in such a thing. Plus, and probably the most idiosyncratic of all, is plain and simple "boat lust." Buying a boat is simply not a "totally rational decision". Usually, very far from it. (Don't believe me? Just ask the Admiral.)

While you can put together a seemingly rational process for making a decision, the variables being weighed will just not be static and stable from person to person. Furthermore, even if you did such a thing on a broad scale and somebody actually built a boat to those specs, I'm guessing you wouldn't like the outcome. It would be Pablum. A Nissan-Toyota-Honda, "can't tell the difference, 'cause they all look the same." The proverbial "Bene-Huna-Lina."

I don't think there's any reasonable short-cuts. Everybody I know who has done this had their "list". Some became very detailed and obsessive about it. Others were vague and general. In the end, though, it was theirs. They've all had one thing in common, though: Implicit in every criterion is a compromise. You trade one thing for another. Sometimes, you will be happy you made that trade. Other times, you will wish you might have gotten a bit more of X in exchange for Y.

BTW, congratulations TwT, the Lipari looks like a very nice boat. Enjoy!

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Old 14-10-2009, 15:09   #164
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Thanks Intentional Drifter for the perspective. You make an excellent point. I'll keep working on "my list"!

Also agree that the Lipari is a great boat!

Cheers!
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Old 14-10-2009, 15:14   #165
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Ha! Believe me, folks, TwT's list probably makes a lot of sense to him and if it helps him in his search, that's great. But, "his list" and "your list" is and very likely should be, quite different. There are so many idiosyncratic variables involved in such a thing. Plus, and probably the most idiosyncratic of all, is plain and simple "boat lust." Buying a boat is simply not a "totally rational decision". Usually, very far from it. (Don't believe me? Just ask the Admiral.)

While you can put together a seemingly rational process for making a decision, the variables being weighed will just not be static and stable from person to person. Furthermore, even if you did such a thing on a broad scale and somebody actually built a boat to those specs, I'm guessing you wouldn't like the outcome. It would be Pablum. A Nissan-Toyota-Honda, "can't tell the difference, 'cause they all look the same." The proverbial "Bene-Huna-Lina."

I don't think there's any reasonable short-cuts. Everybody I know who has done this had their "list". Some became very detailed and obsessive about it. Others were vague and general. In the end, though, it was theirs. They've all had one thing in common, though: Implicit in every criterion is a compromise. You trade one thing for another. Sometimes, you will be happy you made that trade. Other times, you will wish you might have gotten a bit more of X in exchange for Y.

BTW, congratulations TwT, the Lipari looks like a very nice boat. Enjoy!

ID

Yep.

Dollars change the list more than anything though.
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