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Old 12-03-2008, 14:40   #16
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I would think I would keep away from the ear plugs. You just might not hear it when it cracks into 2 pieces like an egg.....
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Old 12-03-2008, 17:12   #17
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Twosails - I'm with Adaero completely on this point. I've never sailed a cat bigger than my own which is why I can't recommend specific big cats and could only recommend you do research on the smaller boats of the production builders that build something in the 60 range - if you want to buy a production builder's boat. In my earlier post I neglected to include Dolphin and Gunboat. There may be others.


Despite the recommendation to pursue custom builders, I'll try to answer the questions you asked above:



There are many things about the catanas I like. Obviously. But in your range, perhaps the 581 is not for you. I don't know what size Catana you were on to compare it to the Eleuthra, but unless you were on a 581, i.e., if you were on something smaller, interior size comparisons are meaningless.

The Catana I looked at was the 581 ( Sorry I should have said).

But I wouldn't be surprised if the 581 hulls are narrower than those of the Eleuthra. The Catana range goes after a different market > more performance oriented over living standards. Do you want a sailing machine first and a home second or vice versa? Putting those dagger board trunks in the hulls costs money and room. I started sailing as a child, sailed and cruised many, many monos and cats, and have raced small cats for many, many years. My predisposition in a cruising cat was one that emphasized sailing over driving. Others clearly have differing priorities and there is no right and wrong here.




For a discussion of outboard helms, see this thread:
Exposed Helm

Again, this arrangement may not be for you. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way. But you are not me.



Heavier than what? The 581 is heavier than the FP60? I honestly don't know but I hope it is. Read between the lines on that point. (My 471 is heavier than a Bahia 46. Compare the resale values on these two models.) If you want to emphasize downwind performance, yes, wide and light is what you want. Just be prepared to motor upwind more than you might want to.


Dave
I am not wanting a real flashy cat I really want a good performer and reasonable comfort. I think I lean more towards performance over comfort.
I find all the views posted here extremely interesting.

I am no expert on design or building of cats (obviously). So I find it difficult to sor opinon from fact. My thinking has been to purchase a production cat for resale reason. My thinking is a known design would be more saleable that a one off.

Also I am not looking for a flashy design more a practical roomy design. I do like both the Dolphin and Gunboat. Not sure about the helm of the Gunboat.

I am inclined to go for performance and maybe being taken in by the FP sales guy and seduced by the seductive space of the Eleuthera!! I think I do need to sail on more of these boats to see what I think. The Catana 581 I saw is for crew charter in Fiji. The guys who saile it to NZ came though two cyclones on the way here and were very complimentry about the bosts performance. These were the Fijian guys who permantly crew the boat not the owner.

Reading between the lines I think I get what you trying to relay and this is my very concern. One of the questions I asked the FP guy was regarding the number of the Eleuthera's being used privatly by people on blue water cruises. Of courses he said there are many. My thinking is if these boats are regularly crossing oceans, and if there was failures with the structure then maybe the stories would appear on sites like this?

I also have the upwind concern and wonder how oftern would this become a menace.

I have time up my sleve and maybe living in Europe of a couple of years from the middle of this year which will give us the chance to charter some of these boats before we get comitted.

Cheers
Iain
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Old 12-03-2008, 18:34   #18
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twosail,

The Eluethera 60 was one of my first loves when planning what to purchase. I went first to a Catana 521, then the FP 60, then the Gunboat 48, then the Africancat 525VK, back to the Gunboat, was very serious about the Catana 50, and finally landed on a Chris White Design Atlantic 58.

They all have pros and cons. What really sold me was sailing on the Atlantic 58. It's not for everyone but if you was a boat that's REALLY fun to sail, simple utilitarian systems that you could service yourself and as much boat as you can safely handle single handed then you MIGHT come to the same conclusion I did.

There are lots of great post on the forum that will help you make trade offs for what your want. One thing that really helped me get comfortable with building a boat was to read Chris Whites - Cruising Multihulls.

Have fun with your research. It only too me 2 years to decide. I suspect you will be faster.
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Old 12-03-2008, 18:37   #19
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I've never been on an Eluthera 60, but we raced against one at the Hog's Breath multihull rendezvous. I was surprised and impressed by how well it sailed. (We still beat it though.)
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Old 12-03-2008, 18:55   #20
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Bluerap- I too have been though similar love afairs with similra cats, add in Dolphin as well. I do like the Chris White designs do wonder about the helm position and how I would convince her about the galley down? One other question I have abouth the Atlantic 58 is the rear cokpit how big is that area, do you hang out there when anchored?

One other question I have with some narrower hulls is the effect from hull protrusions, how heavy does the weather need to be before effecting performance especially to windward, if these protrusions start hiting the water. Its sort of seems ilogical to stick a box through the side of the hull?
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Old 12-03-2008, 19:08   #21
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I think the help position is great. You're right where all the action is. Other's will question how much water she takes but I think I will spend almost all my time inside when the weather is bad. My wife didn't like the galley down either. When we got on the boat we appreciated that it was closer to the action than our previous monohull and that it really wasn't that far away. It's got the added benefit that all the dirty stuff is not in the main living area but what sealed the deal was just being in the boat.

The rear cockpit is big enough to put a full sized dink on it and still get around. The latest design has two benches and both tables inside can be early moved outside. I think we will actually spend more time inside than on other Cats. The ventilation and visibility from inside is spectacular. I like it outside but with everything open and no direct sun light I think it's better to be out of the sun. You also have a front cockpit that very nice.

As for performance, what I heard from both Gunboat and CWD was that you pick a "gear" that's tuned for comfort when doing crossings. The boat can sail a lot faster that what you would find comfortable so you simple optimize for what's fast but stable and comfortable.
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Old 12-03-2008, 19:29   #22
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I can see your point re open the saloon area from both ends. The pictures I have seen gave me an impresion of a smaller rear cockpit but that was probably decieving.

Your comments re "gear" are nodoubt very relevant and like any boat you sail it the way that your comfortable with. Not having had a whole lot of experience with cats, but from what I understand I imagine the right "gear" is even more important

I had an interesting conversation with a guy who showed me over a Lagoon44. When we were up in the flying bridge cockpit. I asked him what it was like up here in a storm. He gave me a funny look and said you don't want to be up he in a storm or in blue water in a cat, he said he had sailed in the pacific from when he was eleven ( he is a university student) so i guess he is 19-20, he said the problem with a catamaran is you cannot slow them down, I got the feeling he thought I was an idiot for even thinking of crossing an ocean in a cat.
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Old 14-03-2008, 01:29   #23
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and said you don't want to be up he in a storm or in blue water in a cat, he said he had sailed in the pacific from when he was eleven ( he is a university student) so i guess he is 19-20, he said the problem with a catamaran is you cannot slow them down, I got the feeling he thought I was an idiot for even thinking of crossing an ocean in a cat.
I went down from the BVI to St Lucia last year to watch the Cricket World Cup. While sitting in Scuttlebutt's at Rodney Bay I got talking to a South African who'd flown in for the cricket. He'd started out sailing in his mono, got caught in some bad stuff, jammed his in mast main and lost the lot over the side. He asked what I had and when told... A catamaran... He went off on a long rant about how unsafe cats are and how he'd never go out of sight of land on one. I then pointed out that one of us was sitting in the bar having had sailed his own boat across the Atlantic quite safely and successfully and one of us had arrived by plane having been rescued at sea.

It did shut him up but only for about 10 seconds!
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Old 14-03-2008, 04:59   #24
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... He asked what I had and when told... A catamaran... He went off on a long rant about how unsafe cats are and how he'd never go out of sight of land on one. I then pointed out that one of us was sitting in the bar having had sailed his own boat across the Atlantic quite safely and successfully and one of us had arrived by plane having been rescued at sea.
It did shut him up but only for about 10 seconds!
What a “hoot”!
This sounds like one of those people whom:
“You can tell it’s him a mile away - but once he gets up close, you can’t tell him anything.”
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Old 14-03-2008, 05:37   #25
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I think the discussion is going all over the place at this stage! Twohulls, you need to specify more precisely what you're after in terms of sailing capability in your cat to be!

If your world cruise is following the coconut milk route you will see very little upwind and that feature of the boat is not the most important one. Go against the prevailing winds on a circumnavigation and your choice of boat will be totally different again!

I haven't had the pleasure of sailing an Aleutera, but any cat this size is built for sailing with a professional crew and guests. I believe you and your family will be the only POB?

As for the build quality of the FP I would say they're fully capable of a circumnavigation. I'm know on my second FP and I have sailed them trough heavy storms without any problems or damages to any gear. I think this is more up to the crew, if there are competent sailors onboard who know heavy wind sailing you should be fine in most production cats and I know you will be in a FP. I will however point out that the FP range is generally considered the fastest of the "charter" type cats, but obviously loose ot to the Gunboats and similar built cats - then again they don't have the comfyness of the "slower" cats.

As someone mentioned earlier there are more luxiurious cats likethe Petter and Yapluka, but the price is close to 3 times what you pay for a standard production yacht.

If I had a requirement for a 60 something cat I believe the Aleutera would be fine but I would have a close look at the new Salina 48 from FP as well. Comments I've heard is that is extreamly roomy compared to the Bahia 46 and it's easier to sail witth all controll lines to the helmsman seat.

One is being delivered to Norway in early May and I hope to get a sail on her when she arrives.

Good luck on your hunting.

Happy lead free sailin.
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Old 14-03-2008, 07:05   #26
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I went down from the BVI to St Lucia last year to watch the Cricket World Cup. While sitting in Scuttlebutt's at Rodney Bay I got talking to a South African who'd flown in for the cricket. He'd started out sailing in his mono, got caught in some bad stuff, jammed his in mast main and lost the lot over the side. He asked what I had and when told... A catamaran... He went off on a long rant about how unsafe cats are and how he'd never go out of sight of land on one. I then pointed out that one of us was sitting in the bar having had sailed his own boat across the Atlantic quite safely and successfully and one of us had arrived by plane having been rescued at sea.

It did shut him up but only for about 10 seconds!
Mike, Like your style, well done and impressed with the quick thinking.
I hope you have now seen what boat I have after our last little communication.
Have a good time down there, and I will keep you informed re. my little project.
Cheers Ian
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Old 15-03-2008, 01:52   #27
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Thanks Lucky, The thread has got a bit of track. Thanks for you input it's good to get the opinon of some one who has owned an FP. I do like the the of the Salina to would like to get onboard one.
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Old 15-02-2011, 10:24   #28
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Hello twosail;

It's been almost 3 years from the last post and at this point, I have the same question for you. Have you purchased the fp60?

At the moment, I'm undecided between fp60, Lagoon 620 and Sunreef 62 as well. The lagoon is extremely heavy (yet spacious than the others) and this causes it to reach two digit speeds extremely hard. On the other hand, Sunreef looks like a middle point between two.

Of course a gungoat is great but my main goal on a cat is interior space and comfort, therefore it's a bit redundant performance along with smaller spaces for me -but that's me.

So, the question is; have you bought the fp60 and what're your thoughts? I'm planning for a circumnavigation as well, so open to all comments.


Best Regards;
Mehmet CAN
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:01   #29
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Re: Eleuthera 60

Mehmet,

I would kindly suggest that you forget Eulethra if you are to buy a new boat and ready to spend over 1 mio €. (the boats you are referring to are well over a mio €)
Eulethra is a very nice boat but simply very old design, she didn't have even a hard bimini !!
620 is a very nice boat, sailing properties probably somewhat improved vs. previous Lagoons. If you are not in hurry, I would wait the new comer FP, a new 57 to be launched soon.
Cheers
Yeloya
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Old 01-03-2011, 06:18   #30
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Re: Eleuthera 60

Dear Yeloya;

Eulethera is an option only if I come across with a very clean one in the used market with a very low price tag. As a matter of fact, my current target is the new Gunboat 60, if I'm going to go for new. Yes, it costs quite a bit but almost everything that you can think of is standard (they don't ask you to pay 5000 Euros extra just because you decide to have a different color for fabrics!). The current asking price is 2.5M$ but this includes everything from solar panels to water maker, rib to spectra sails and so forth. And if you ask me, that's a bargain for a fully carbon boat like that (you can easily pass 2.5M Euros with a FP65 when you load the extras!!!)...

Cheers;
Mehmet
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