Mahe 36: Electrical - 110 and 220 Volt Systems

[jean1146]

Therapy the only other location for the gen would be the anchor locker,but you would have to really protect the gen from the element because you will get sea water in there when the weather gets rough.I thought about it.Sure the Mahe is not perfect,if I had to do it again I would change a few things,but is there out there a PERFECT CAT? for us the price was very important,and we like what we got.My next step would be a Lavezzi,it is a very nice boat,you need to look at it,very well made.Well I need to go,we are heading down to Captiva untill Sunday.JC.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by jean1146

Therapy the only other location for the gen would be the anchor locker,but you would have to really protect the gen from the element because you will get sea water in there when the weather gets rough.I thought about it.Sure the Mahe is not perfect,if I had to do it again I would change a few things,but is there out there a PERFECT CAT? for us the price was very important,and we like what we got.My next step would be a Lavezzi,it is a very nice boat,you need to look at it,very well made.Well I need to go,we are heading down to Captiva untill Sunday.JC.

Thanks Jean.

It really is a nice boat.

Have fun!

[gaultier]

Originally Posted by LarryW

JC, Thanks for the info on the LP tank - How's your bimini? When you get a chance I'd like to see a picture - so we can get ideas on changing ours. Lightning damage so far totals $15,000. It took out all the elctronics, lights, engine panels and two exit spots in the hull. Larry

hi larry ,sorry you ve been hit by the lightning, real bummer; hope you re enjoying your boat. see you. gaultier

[Cotemar]

Has anyone purchased any of these Hagar Circuit Breakers.
I am looking for some MFN710 which I believe are 10 Amp.
Mark

[Cotemar]

Scott,
I will let you know when I find the Hagar 10 amp circuit breakers.
On another question. When I bought Catatude I purchased one 71 gal water tank.
Now that I have her I noticed 2 tanks on both sides of the chain locker.
Does this mean I have two 35 gal tanks connected to make 71 gal ?
Mark

[DtM]

Scott,

are the Hagar circuit breakers the same style as the ones originally in the boat? OOps, having looked at the photo above it seems your circuit breakers are different to the ones installed on 2gether.

We have them here in Australia I am sure. i will let you know and send you some. Even though they are different to those I thought youhad I will nonetheless have a look for you


daniel

[Scott730]

Daniel
Thanks for checking on the circuit breakers for us. Can't find a supplier in the U.S..

[Talbot]

Originally Posted by DtM

Scott, are the Hagar circuit breakers the same style as the ones originally in the boat? OOps, having looked at the photo above it seems your circuit breakers are different to the ones installed on 2gether.

It may be that yours are 240v, and the others set up for 115v

[Scott730]

That is likely true, the picture that Mark supplied is a 120 volt 30 amp system, same as mine.

[Cotemar]

Scott,
Spoke to www.hager.co.uk today. Their tech said that Hagar MLN710A Circuit Breakers are the UK version which are more readily available than the MFN710. The F in the number stands for the French reference.
I think now I will be able to find them.
Mark

[Cotemar]

Mahe's

As most of you Mahe’s know in the USA with the 110 volt system, when you plug in a standard 1500 watt heater it does nothing and you have to go reset the breaker. Jef from ("Miss Poes") in the Netherlands & I have a tested solution for you. Here is the problem in detail.

Most portable electric heaters or hair dryers use 1500 watts / 110 volts = 13.6 amps needed, but FP put a 6 Amp breaker in the Saloon / Port Cabin and another 6 Amp breaker in the Galley / Stb Cabin. These Hagar MFN706 breakers at 6 Amps are under rated, so a 16 amp breaker is need to support these outlets.

My Mahe 110 Volt wiring is a better gauge than my house wiring, therefore should be able to handle the increased Amps. I put the Hagar MFN716 Circuit Breakers in this weekend and they installed in only 10 minutes. Plugged in the Mahe to shore power and plugged in a 1500 watt heater on high and all works perfectly.

It is important that you understand that by changing your breakers from the factory MFN706 at 6 Amps, to the new MFN716 which are 16 amp breakers that the situation is not fool-proof. If you were to use close to 16 amp for e.g. a hair dryer and are also charging the batteries and/or water heating, the 20 A main breaker may trip.

110 volt Mahes have:
Main circuit breaker ADC720F (Differential) of 20 Amps. This unit
disconnects all groups when there is a residual current above 30 mA,
being 0.03A. Plus it disconnects when the total current exceeds 20 Amps. Most US Marina’s are 30 amps
Water Heater breaker MFN710 at 10 Amps, 800 watts / 110 Volts = 7 amps needed
Battery Charger breaker MFN710 at 10 Amps, 600-700 watts/110 volts = 6 Amps needed
Saloon / Port Cabin breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps, Changed to MFN716
Galley / Stb Cabin breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps, Changed to MFN716

230 volt Mahes have:
Main circuit breaker (Differential) of 16 Amps
Water Heater breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps
Battery Charger breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps
Saloon / Port Cabin breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps
Galley / Stb Cabin breaker MFN706 at 6 Amps

Strangely these can handle 2000 W / 230 V = 8.7 A. (water cooker in the galley).

If you live in the US and would like to upgrade your Hagar breakers from MFN706 at 6 Amps to MFN716 at 16Amps Then send me a Private e-mail and I will make a list and make a blanket order to Jef.

When I get the breakers in the US, I will then send them to each of you that ordered them. Ordering and mail time will take 4-6 weeks.

Actual Cost euro 46.86 breakers + euro 10.45 shipping = euro 57.31 or around $78 US

This is not a commercial activity, there is no profit, no warranty& no returns.
This is a one-time action arranged exclusively to do fellow Mahe sailors of the Cruisers forum a favor.

Mark

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

My Mahe 110 Volt wiring is a better gauge than my house wiring, therefore should be able to handle the increased Amps.

I want to stress that careful examination of wire size is performed. Don't use wire that is smaller than ABYC specs, we don't want any boats to burn.

[Cotemar]

Mahe’s

I have notice these little electrical connectors used on the Hot water tank and in both the 110 volt and 12 volt instrument panels. I really liked how simple they were to use and to re-install when some electrical circuit needed testing or replacing.
I wanted to buy some to have on hand for installing new electronics also.

You can purchase them on eBay, so I have some in my electrical spares kit now.

Here is some info on them, so you know what they are when you least expect it.

WAGO 222 LEVER-NUT compact connectors can make new electrical connections inside the Helm control panel, in the Nav. Station power panel and in the Instrument network panel behind the refrigerator. The LEVER-NUT is suited to marine applications where space is at a premium.

The 222 LEVER-NUT is UL/CNL listed up to 600V/20A and can accommodate both solid and stranded conductors ranging in size from AWG #12-28 in the same unit. They provides fast, easy and maintenance-free connections and a maximum temperature rating of 105°C ensures that the 222-412 will reliably meet the requirements for a wide range of applications. LEVER-NUTS protects users against electrical shocks and employs an integral test point for testing/trouble-shooting a circuit. Splicing with LEVER-NUT compact connectors is a simple, tool-free process: lift the orange lever, insert the stripped conductor (check strip length with a built-in length guide) and lower the lever.

Designed to eliminate loose wires as a result of vibration and temperature cycling, as well as provide a highly reliable, corrosion-resistant, and maintenance-free connections.

Mahe’s use all three of these models.
222-412 Two-conductor splice
222-413 Three-conductor splice
222-415 Five-conductor splice

Mark

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Lori,
Wiring for 110V and 230V is the same stuff. Essential is the amperes. You have to check the gauge (wire copper area, see wikipedia) and then look how many amps are allowed. Probably 6 A/mm2 is allowed. You can check US standards for amps vs gauge for mains power. Cotemar did this and reckoned it is safe to go to 16 A per group / wire.

Maybe your ships is pre-wired. This would be great. If not, there is still a lot you can do by using cable ducts.
Standard from Fountaine Pajot are 4 outlets:
1. On the aft side of the nav table. See first picture. You will see the original 230V contact, plus 2 holes for 230V contacts that I made, connected to a 150W inverter for charging phones and so and a laptop.
2. In the port rear cabin, in the wooden panel below the bed, next to the hole that gives access to the storage space.
3. The same, starboard rear cabin.
4. Below the light switch of the saloon, see second picture.

First, where to put the fuse box. The standard box has the following:
- A safety breaker that breaks power by stray currents. It has double contacts since on a boat you do not know the polarity, unlike in your home
- 4 groups of 6A automatic circuit breakers, with double contacts. One is for the battery charger, one is for the hot water boiler, one for 2 mains power outlets starboard, one for mains power outlets port. If I were you I would take 16A instead of 6A.
In the third picture you will see a Mahe in production. The mains fuse box has the green square around it. The blue square is a Mastervolt inverter which is not standard. The yellow squared one is some fuse box probably for the inverter.
Don't forget your grounding! If you don't know what to do, ask or get an expert.

You want to keep things simple. Consider to use a combined charger/inverter. It is more expensive, but: This makes switching over from shore power to inverter-powered much simpler, you do not need switches or relays, it is much more user friendly. Only risk is that you discharge your batteries too deep or too fast.
Standard battery charger is 40A. I consider this enough, if you are connected to shore power this is probably for a whole night, long enough to charge at 40A.

OK, then how to wire the stuff.
Maybe you boat is pre-wired, that would be great. If not there are possibilities to pull wires to the right places using cable ducts and hidden spaces.

First, the nav table 110V outlet. Look at the red square of the picture of the mahe in production. This is pre-wiring for the nav table contact. First you have to check out the rear locker in the rear port bedroom. This locker has 3 shelves. Remove the ceiling of the upper shelve, by undoing 4 screws which are hidden inside 4 white triangular plastic pieces holding the ceiling. Above this you might see a big pipe holding the pre-wiring for the nav table. If yes, pull this back from the nav table. THEN drill a very big hole above the nav table for the 110V outlet(s). This way you avoid drilling through the wiring.
Maybe put 3 or 4 110V outlets there. Charging phones and so.
If there is no wiring in this pipe: it is not easy to pull wires through since there is a T junction somewhere lower. But try. (You might look behind the big wooden panel starboard of the port bed, it might be there.)
If there is no pipe: then you have to use the other big pipe. Go to the hanging locker in this bedroom. Open the square white cable ducts. There might be a big round pipe going very near to where the fuse box should go. You can use this. It is easy to get from this pipe to the nav table 110V outlet, once you have that ceiling removed.
I use this big pipe for: Original Furuno GPS antenna, shunt connection for the battery monitor, plus extra's to be installed:
2 wires for solar panels, and an extra NMEA 2*2 lead cable for connecting the nav table to the autopilot, and GPS antenna for AIS. These I will all pull in one go.

Check whether there is pre-wiring under the beds.

By now you will know whether your boat is pre-wired.
If yes, remove the saloon light switch. Check through the hole whether there is mains wiring behind this switch, see the second picture. This is a good spot for another 110V outlet.

I hope this is clear enough. Ask if you need more info. If you are on skype, send me a private email with your details.
And have a nice weekend.

[longislandsail]

Lori
All that was said about wiring up the boat is correct. You need to pick your locations for outlets then install a breaker box for each run, and a outlet for the shore power to connect to. My boat was wired for 110 in France but no plug to hook to showe power because they onle have 220 in Europe. This is where I installed my plug to hook up to shore power or small generater.
Al