Mahe 36: Electrical - 110 and 220 Volt Systems

[lstyles]

Ok. I got a chance to quickly go look at the boat. There are 7 cables with wires inside them on the shelf where the autopilot is in the port engine hold. They are labeled 220v1-7. I cant exactly see where all of them go but 4 are in a corrugated pipe and three are separate. I opened up the top of the shelves as Jef suggested. Under there I found a corrugated pipe with two of the 220v cables coming through it. None went to nav station and the grey pipe headed to back of closet and down. I also checked the port and starboard sides under the beds and they each have a grey 220V cable coming in so I am guessing this is where those two cables from the closet are going. I did not get a chance to see what gauge the wires in these 220v cable are so I can determine if I can use them. If I can use them then I have atleast pre-wiring to go to each of the stern cabins. I will need to get a cable up to the nav station but may be able to use the existing cable to help me fish a line through there. What are all those seven cables used for? I need to explore more and see where they go but since I dont have any Alt current they cant really be hooked up to anything right now. It will be interesting to see if the 220V cable wires are sufficient for me to use for a 110 V system.
thanks,
Lori

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Lori,
2 cables go to the nav table, see my previous post
2 go to port and starboard rear cabin under the beds
1 goes probably to the proximity of the saloon light switch
1 will go to the hot water boiler.
Last one I don't know.
Call yourself lucky that it is all pre-wired, and use it. You may not succeed in pulling other cables through.
And the same wiring is used for US and Europe.

Why do you need mains at the nav station, I guess you mean outside at the helm with that? I think that is too dangerous

[lstyles]

Jef,
I don't have two cables going to nav table (didnt mean helm) like you suggested. They may be hidden somewhere that I am not seeing but they don't run in that corrugated tube that your pictured before. I have that tube but only two cables in it and those seem to go to the starboard and port cabins under the bed. I only had time to take off the forward side piece of wood on the port cabin (on port side) but I am going to go back and take off the piece that is toward the stern. There was nothing behind the forward piece of panelling but I am hoping that I may be able to see something of how the wiring runs behind the rear one. I am also going to try and figure out where all those 7 cables come and go in the stern because they do diverge at points. Does anyone have a picture/diagram of how their 110/220v system wiring is routed? As for the wiring thats there, you are saying it will be sufficient for 110V?
I will check out the sanyo and look forward to seeing your photos. As for angle aluminum, if it is large enough and good enough grade it should be sufficient for the forces on that panel. They make plans here in the US for trailers that haul 3500lbs on bolt together aluminum trailers and they have a lot of rotational forces around the wheels etc. The angle aluminum idea I got from a Lagoon 450 catamaran at the boat show. They had two very large panels up on the davits so I am guessing if lagoon is selling it that way that it will be sufficient...theres was welded however. I can always get mine welded by my friend. I need to decide on whether I want one or two panels on the davits and if I go with one panel do I want to put the other on the bimini? That is such an easy/convenient place to mount one but I am concerned about shading.
I will get back to you on my boats wiring when I get down there in the next day or two.
thanks again,
Lori

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by lstyles

As for the wiring thats there, you are saying it will be sufficient for 110V?

The size of the wire determines the current carrying capacity, voltage doesn't matter. So, if the wire will carry 16amps @ 230v, it'll handle 16amps @ 110v. I use the 16amp example as that seems to be a normal size breaker used in Europe on 2.5mm2 wire.

Determine your wire size and look at table below to determine current carrying capacity of your wire. Error on the conservative side.

Genuinedealz - Technical - Calculators

[Ascension]

Gents & ladies

We currently have Ascension (230v Mahe) in a US Marina which doesn't have 230v. I realise the water heater is a no go with a 230v element however all the data/manuals I have on the TECSUP battery charger state;

HI-TEC 500-1000W Version: 12V / 40A "Universal Voltage" input 90V to 260Vac 50/60Hz.

Q1 - Am I safe to switch on the charger breaker or do I risk damaging the charger?

Q2 - What's the easiest option for hot water, fit a new 110V element or use 110V-220V transformer?

All info / ideas welcome.

Best regards
John

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Ascension

Q1 - Am I safe to switch on the charger breaker or do I risk damaging the charger?

It depends. Does the charger have any dip switches or settings to switch it to the different power source? Most do not, but it would be prudent to read the manual and verify.

Originally Posted by Ascension

Q2 - What's the easiest option for hot water, fit a new 110V element or use 110V-220V transformer?

Hook it up, it'll work at 25% rated heating capacity. (1000watt will now be 250watt)

[Scott730]

I'd get a 110 to 220 transformer if you are going to be in the USA for any period of time. Easy to install. What about propane? are you set up for USA standard? If not you will need a conversion fitting to go from 20 mm to NPT if you wish to fill your tanks.
BTW, where are you in the USA?

Scott

[Ascension]

Dot Dun

Many thanks, the instruction manual has been translated from French, but appears to show two "Universal Voltage" models in the 12V batt range (12V/40A and 12V/60A) then details three "230V" models to supply 24V and 48V batt's.

As I have the 12V/40A model I am assuming it is "Universal Voltage"?? The only dip switches/settings are for battery type.

I'm obviously a little concerned about gambling the charger on the strength of an anglo/french translation...!

Re the water heater - many thanks - you have dusted off my schoolboy knowledge of ohms law, will see what 200W will do.

Scott thanks for the advice, I've sorted the propane thanks to another section of this excellent forum!

We're currently exploring New England, and looking at spending a few months in the USA. So as you say the simplest solution might be a 110/220 transformer. In the UK very rugged 110/220 transformers are often used for large powertools.

Thanks for the help chaps.
John

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Regarding a 230 V Mahe in the US:
- On Tecsup's website you can find the English manual. I have one, it states universal voltage, there is no switch. I would just connect it.
- The heater is 800 Watt. On 110 V it will just do 200 Watts. As a consequence it takes 4 hours to get hot water instead of 1 hour. This is no problem.
- I have installed on our 230V Mahe a 110V inverter. With thanks to Cotemar. This inverter connects to the water heater if we have no shore power.
We have 470 Watts of solar panels. On sunny days the batteries are already charged to 100 % in the morning. If it is largely cloudless, the solar panels easily produce 200 -300 Watts depending on the orientation of the sun. We then switch on the 110V inverter and connect this to the water heater. After a few hours we have hot water for showering, cooking and washing.
If now and then a cloud passes, the batteries take over, to be recharged by solar during cloudless moments.

We connected the inverter to the power distribution box via an extra circuit breaker. This is an easy solution, is flexible and works well, however you may not make a mistake in switching; if you switch both shore power and inverter on, and connect to shore power, you will blow up the inverter.

Next year we hope to turn surplus solar electricity into water, by adding a water heater.

[Clipperton]

Hello guys,

I have plugged additional heating units in my mahé (2 regular 1200 watts oil heating systems that other people in my marina are using).
As you can imagine, it does not work at full speed, I have to put them in medium power in order to have them run.

Did you guys contact FP before replacing your MFN 6amps breakers to more powerful ones?
I am just a bit uncomfortable to do this type of electrical change. Even if, the switch to 10 amps seems a no brainer as this is what is being used for the water heater for example.

thanks for letting me know what you did. In parallel, I did send a request to my dealer who is contacting FP. I will let you know

Alex

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Alex,
Please read Cotemar's excellent post number 11 well. This might help to give you sufficient know-how to figure this out. However, if you do not feel secure you can ask FP. However, they might want to stay on the safe side, and advice you to change nothing (liabilities and so).
In the pre-Evolution Mahe's the wiring is thick enough to carry 16 Amps per group, so replacing the 6A circuit breakers with 16A is safe.
I do not know whether the wire gauge of the Evolution Mahe's is the same, you will have to check that.

Still, even if the wires are thick enough and you replace the circuit breakers, this is probably not enough to solve you problem. As Mark stated, replacing the two 6A breakers with 16A is not foolproof, with multiple 16A groups you can and will overload the 20A main circuit breaker.
You want to load 2*1200 Watt heaters = 2400 Watt. This calculates as 2400Watt/110V = 21.8A. This might just be within the margin of the 20A main circuit breaker. However, your hot water boiler will add more than 7A and your battery charger might add another 3 A (maximum around 6). This might cause a circuit break to happen when you are not there, leading to obvious problems when it freezes.

An option would be to replace the 20A main breaker with a heavier model. This you may only do after checking the gauge of the shore power cable.

What about installing a Diesel heater? Yes more expensive, but it saves a very long cable when you're anchored.

[Clipperton]

do you have good experience with a diesel heater. If yes, What do you think would be the right set-up? As well, I don't know if I would feel good with having this run while I am asleep

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

We have an excellent experience with a diesel heater, a D4 4KW Eberspacher hot air heater.
These are very safe, normally they are used as heating in long-distance trucks as stand heating, to keep the driver warm during parking/sleeping.
Of course, installation has to be done well, e.g. the hot exhaust should not touch any plastic / wood / etc.

I have installed it totally invisible and perfectly, with 4 exhaust, 2 in the saloon and one in each rear bedroom.
However, this has taken me at least 6 full days of efficient work. To have somebody do this as I did it would be very expensive.
The heater has worked without a single flaw and has required zero maintenance, for 3 years now.
Note that there are two parts which could require maintenance:
- The fan uses a DC motor with brushes and plain bearings. They have a lifetime of maybe 2000 hours. And they are expensive, maybe 300-400 $. I did not know this when I bought the heater.
If you use it continuously, because you live on your ship, you might wear this one out in one winter.
I would suggest you to request the dealer to supply you a spare fan for his buying price. I am sorry I did not do this, I do not want to be in a cold place without this heating working.
- I got the glow plug as spare, recommended by the shop. This glow plug starts the heater by briefly using about 10A at 12V.

Knowing what I know now, I recommend you to place the fuel pump not too close to where you sleep. In our ship it is under the port starter battery, and we clearly hear it when we are in bed, also on the port side.

[MIRELOS]

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post419184\

I own a Eleuthera 60 and have the same problem wrote to FP asking if I could change the 10 amp to a 16amp and the 6amp to a 10 amp. They responded that the wiring is 1,5mm(squared), what that means in European electrical code I don't know since I'm only familiar with US code, and therefore they do not recommend that I do it. FP is of course never very helpful unfortunately.
Good boats, yes, good service, no.
Any ideas?

[Cotemar]

MIRELOS,
Private message sent with instructions.
Mark