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Old 05-03-2018, 10:54   #1
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DIY Lithium Bank Install

Spent the weekend installing and wiring up our new Lithium Bank. 16x180aH CALB cells for a total of 720aH. ~ 600aH usable.

The best part is that the cells fit into the location of the 3 factory Group31AGM's which weighted 218lbs and the lithium weighs just 199 lbs but with 3 1/2times the usable capacity.

The pack shown here needs to be removed again after it's charged so I can parallel the cells and get a final top balance.

I'll post more as the work is completed.

There are a large number of photos so I've uploaded the gallery to imgur.

https://imgur.com/a/Laylz
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Old 06-03-2018, 05:17   #2
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Nicely done!
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Old 07-05-2018, 04:15   #3
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Nice looking installation. That is a lot of power!
What are you using for cell balancing?
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Old 07-05-2018, 05:30   #4
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Question.. Are you using the Victron Battery Protect as a HVD/LVD device?

If so, I would be very careful. I had that device in my original design and have since removed it after some profesional advice.

Being based on FETs, that device's usual mode of failure is dead short (i.e. a big wire). If the device does fail dead short, then it completely defeats the LVD/HVD function. On top of that, it also has issues sensing voltage when charge sources are hooked up to the output port (as they would be in any design).
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Old 07-05-2018, 16:21   #5
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

At the moment, its only role is LVD. No current flows backwards thru the device. The solar controller and inverter are connected directly to the battery. Yes, if the solar controllers or inverter failed and started overcharging there would be no protection. The solar controllers are controlled by the inverter now.

I am awaiting a new BMS (arrives today funny enough) that controls the inverter directly over CANBus and will then also control FET disconnect.

I may eventually replace the single disconnect with 2 contactors for charge and discharge sources, but I've not gotten there yet.
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Old 07-05-2018, 18:40   #6
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terbonium View Post
At the moment, its only role is LVD. No current flows backwards thru the device. The solar controller and inverter are connected directly to the battery. Yes, if the solar controllers or inverter failed and started overcharging there would be no protection. The solar controllers are controlled by the inverter now.

I am awaiting a new BMS (arrives today funny enough) that controls the inverter directly over CANBus and will then also control FET disconnect.

I may eventually replace the single disconnect with 2 contactors for charge and discharge sources, but I've not gotten there yet.
Just some food for thought.. We abandoned the BatteryProtect device in favor of a Blue Sea Systems latching relay. We opted for the 7700 model as it worked best with our BMS. However the 7713 can be a better choice if your BMS will work with it. Its not a true latching relay, but it draws such low current its neglegable. The 7713 will fail safe (disconnected) in the event of power being removed (maybe a BMS failure).

In our design, the 7700 is both the HVD and LVD as it sits between the battery and EVERYTHING else. Our BMS monitors pack voltage, cell voltage, and cell temperature. If any of those parameters go out of range, it instructs the 7700 to disconnect and leave the pack isolated.

If it works for you, the Bluesea System devices are excellent. They are not cheap, but worth it in my opinion!
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:06   #7
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

The 7700 does appear to be a latching relay. Is there another series with the 7700 designation?

ML– Series
Remote Battery Switches (with manual control)
PN 7700 / PN 7702
Solenoid Switches (without manual control)
PN 7701 / PN 7703


• Magnetic Latch—draws no current in ON or OFF state, only draws current when changing state of switch
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:21   #8
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terbonium View Post
The 7700 does appear to be a latching relay. Is there another series with the 7700 designation?

ML– Series
Remote Battery Switches (with manual control)
PN 7700 / PN 7702
Solenoid Switches (without manual control)
PN 7701 / PN 7703


• Magnetic Latch—draws no current in ON or OFF state, only draws current when changing state of switch
I'm confused what you are asking..

Yes the 7700 is a latching relay. It only draws current when changing state and requires just a short "pulse" of voltage/current to make the change. However it can get stuck in the last state if the BMS dies for some reason. Technically this could allow you to kill your bank in the event of a BMS failure.

The 7713 is NOT a latching relay. It requires a VERY low current to stay closed, but will return to off state if power is removed. This is technically a safer relay to use and works better with most BMSs. The current required to stay closed is about 100 times less than a standard "contactor".
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:23   #9
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

P.S. Both feature a manual knob that can be used to "lock off" your bank for numerous reasons (servicing, parked at a dock, storage, ect). The manual knob overrides the electronic control when locked off.
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Old 08-05-2018, 14:30   #10
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
P.S. Both feature a manual knob that can be used to "lock off" your bank for numerous reasons (servicing, parked at a dock, storage, ect). The manual knob overrides the electronic control when locked off.
Yep, that sounds ideal. I'd assume if the BMS or other systems fail the LVD/HVD would go to ground or float. That would be perfect.

7713 sounds like the perfect fit.
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Old 08-05-2018, 17:20   #11
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terbonium View Post
Yep, that sounds ideal. I'd assume if the BMS or other systems fail the LVD/HVD would go to ground or float. That would be perfect.

7713 sounds like the perfect fit.
Exactly.. and if the 7713 is between your battery pack and EVERYTHING, then your pack will be completely disconnected and isolated. At that point it should become obvious that something has gone wrong and a "real human" can start digging into the issue.

They are a little expensive, but, you can look around and get them a little cheaper. Ebay has good prices. In any case, they are good quality, with good specs. I guess "expsensive" is all relative. If they function and protect my pack, then $200 is not really "expensive".
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:19   #12
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by travellerw View Post
P.S. Both feature a manual knob that can be used to "lock off" your bank for numerous reasons (servicing, parked at a dock, storage, ect). The manual knob overrides the electronic control when locked off.
The specs for the 7713 mention a 8ma draw in the off position. I'm assuming from your above statement that if manually switched off this does not apply.
This would only be a concern if storing the boat for several months.
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Old 09-05-2018, 13:35   #13
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

travellerw, what BMS are you using?
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Old 09-05-2018, 13:35   #14
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by CGirvan View Post
The specs for the 7713 mention a 8ma draw in the off position. I'm assuming from your above statement that if manually switched off this does not apply.
This would only be a concern if storing the boat for several months.
I don't have the 7713, so I can't confirm...

But even then, at 8ma.. That would only be 5.7Ah per month or 69Ah/year. It would take a WHOLE lot of months to draw a 400Ah bank into dangerous levels. Even if it was stored at 1/2 charge.

In any event.. Just put a switch on the positive wire feeding the relay. It will revert to off state when power is removed.
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Old 09-05-2018, 13:58   #15
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Re: DIY Lithium Bank Install

Quote:
Originally Posted by gjorgensen View Post
travellerw, what BMS are you using?
I'm using a combination of DIY and Ev-power BMS. However, we are still waiting to install it.

Our system is very simple as I only have 2 charging sources to worry about. Our main source is 1000W of solar. Solar is fed through 3 Victron MPPT controllers that are %100 adjustable.

Our other charge source is an older Quick 60A house charger. That will be controlled manually by me as it is used very infrequently, even with our current LA batteries.

So our BMS is really only providing "last line of defense". HVD/LVD (cell and pack level) and temperature protection. In the event of any of those paramaters going outside the range, the BMS main board instructs the 7700 to isolate the pack.
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