Mahe 36: Buying a Mahe

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

We are the importer and dealer for the USA of Fountaine Pajot and I must say that the shipyard has been working very closely with us in solving warranty problems.The procedure is to have the repairs details and costs send to your dealer then approved by the yard before starting work.
So far Fountaine Pajot has been standing behind their Mahe and the boats are aging very well with minor problems

Could you enlighten us at to the nature of these minor problems? I felt that the boat was very "squeeky" on a test sail, alot of flexing around the nav table/galley area, as they for some reason have chosen not to join the furniture to the hulls

[pguillemin]

we have boats which have crossed the Atlantic on their own bottom.Some required cosmetic repairs on dents or gel coat .
We had a few leaks as well but nothing drastic
Flexing .They do flex .Seems to be the nature of lights and fast cats; and creaking or squeaking seems to be a problems on boats with an overtensionned rig

[Eleven]

Not joining furniture seems to be a modern PROD'N short cut. Not a problem if it was designed like that rather than a short cut. And don't put the joins in afterwards or you'll create stress points. I think the furniture carcases are installed before the top goes on. Any one seen this at the factory?

[pguillemin]

Indeed .That was part of the design .
Furniture goes in glued then the top goes on

[Eleven]

See Fastcat for his silent rig approach. He avoids metal/metal contact in rig attachments and claims a quiet boat is much less stressful. He's got a point.

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

we have boats which have crossed the Atlantic on their own bottom.Some required cosmetic repairs on dents or gel coat .
We had a few leaks as well but nothing drastic
Flexing .They do flex .Seems to be the nature of lights and fast cats; and creaking or squeaking seems to be a problems on boats with an overtensionned rig

I have an old Tobago (hull no. 1), however hard I tension the rig, it still goes "sloppy" when beating into a strong wind, but the stuff on the inside doesn't flex or leak.
Optimising for ease of production and price can be taken a bit too far. Calling these boat light and fast is a bit of a stretch. Compared to what? Put the boat in cruising mode with 4 people, fuel and water, and she will probably not go above 55-55% of windspeed on a reach, if that. Is that fast?

Alan

[pguillemin]

I think that production technique have improved a lot since the Tobago.Boats are lighter and if they flex it is not due to rig tension but to design.
So your forestay stay tight and your windward angle get better.
I am doing a lot of sailing on all of the Fountaine Pajot boats as I import them in the USA and I like the Mahe a lot.We did sea trials for Sail Mag and Practical Sailor after the last Miami show with an owner boat ( ready for crusing ) and we did very well in term of speed ( review should be out this summer or late spring)
Obviously you have to keep the boat as light as possible.Remember that they are built as an introduction boat to the world of catamaran sailing and that everything that you do not use for a few months should be taken off the boat
We sailed Mahe up to 14,15 knots with a good breeze.That is what I called fun ,light and fast

[N'GoRé]

Merci de traduire ma pensée! oui nous avons un mahé 36 n°23 depuis mars 2007, 50 annomalies plus ou moins graves ont été décelées par nous puis par un expert; et le chantier devais nous faire parvenir un protocol afin de finir le bateau. Et aujourdh'ui il n'en n'ait rien. Nous avons à notre effectif 3000 milles avec le mahé, qui correspond exactement à ce que nous recherchions, mais les relations et surtout la perte de confiance dans le respect de la clientèle ne nous conviennet pas.

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

I think that production technique have improved a lot since the Tobago.Boats are lighter and if they flex it is not due to rig tension but to design.
So your forestay stay tight and your windward angle get better.
I am doing a lot of sailing on all of the Fountaine Pajot boats as I import them in the USA and I like the Mahe a lot.We did sea trials for Sail Mag and Practical Sailor after the last Miami show with an owner boat ( ready for crusing ) and we did very well in term of speed ( review should be out this summer or late spring)
Obviously you have to keep the boat as light as possible.Remember that they are built as an introduction boat to the world of catamaran sailing and that everything that you do not use for a few months should be taken off the boat
We sailed Mahe up to 14,15 knots with a good breeze.That is what I called fun ,light and fast

The Mahe is specified as having a lightship weight of 5 tons (on the FP site) The Tobago weighs 4.2 (verified weight of my boat) . So where is the weight saving???? In all the nice 12 mm thick wooden doors and lockers, and other internal fittings? It doesn´t seem to be in getting a nice stiff hull.

You originally claimed that some of the problems were from over tensioning the rig, now the flex is due to design - that is a point we can agree on. My statement earlier was exactly this point, too flexy and squeeky.

Keeping a tight forestay is I agree imperative (so why design flex into the hulls?), but the sheeting angle of the genoa is limited by the rig design and the positioning of the genoa tracks, due to the large triangle on the mast.
These are the reasons for me mounting a track forward of the mast so I can use a self tacking jib for windward work in stronger winds, I don't sail faster but can improve my apparent wind to below around 32 degrees relative, whereas the genoa points around 5 degrees lower. (This is on the Tobago 35) Tacking angle on the GPS goes down to 90-95 degrees with the jib.

I have had the Tobago at 18 knots (flat water and 30-32 knots of wind with full main and genoa, empty boat) - but that in no way means that the boat is a fast boat. Even lightship she struggles to get above 55% of windspeed. In my book, that is not a fast boat. It has many other qualities, buts it's not fast.

The Mahe has wider hulls than the Tobago, so the waterline beam/length ratio is probably 1:10 roughly - that is not performance territory by any definition. Maybe you know what the waterline beam of a hull is and can enlighten us?

The slothful performance of the boat is the reason why I will be rerigging my Tobago with a rotating wingmast, with an extra 3 feet of mast height and a square top mainsail. I have for a number of years used a large Code 0 in kevlar flown off a bowsprit, as well as a gennaker.

These "extra" sails enable me to keep up with some of the faster monohulls of the same length,in winds below 15 knots, (i.e. up to about 60-65% of windspeed) above that i can pass them as they get to their hull speeds.

Fill them up with 250 litres of water, 120 litres of fuel, a small RIB with a decent outboard, 4 people and provisions for week, and you easily lose 10% of the speed.

I'm not knocking the FP boats (i've had one for 8 years and keeping it), they are good for what they are designed for, but calling them fast is a gross exageration of the facts.

I know your job is to sell boats, but in any business, living up to the (realistic) expectations of your customers is what grows the business, and keeps you profitable. (you might not need to work as hard on the next sale) But that is the long term approach.

Regards

Alan

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by N'GoRé

Merci de traduire ma pensée! oui nous avons un mahé 36 n°23 depuis mars 2007, 50 annomalies plus ou moins graves ont été décelées par nous puis par un expert; et le chantier devais nous faire parvenir un protocol afin de finir le bateau. Et aujourdh'ui il n'en n'ait rien. Nous avons à notre effectif 3000 milles avec le mahé, qui correspond exactement à ce que nous recherchions, mais les relations et surtout la perte de confiance dans le respect de la clientèle ne nous conviennet pas.

Ngorei basically says

" we had Mahe 36 hull #23 since March 2007 and detected more or less serious 50 defects and our findings were also approved by an expert. FP shuld have come up with an aggreement to solve this out. Instead, till now, they did nothing.. We did in the meantime 3.000 nm with Mahe which
is in line with our expectations but we are not pleased at all regarding their overall approach and the way they treat their customer.."


My questions are;

1-I assume you didn't notice these defects when the boat was delivered. Otherwise, you should have left the boat where she is until the problems are fixed.
2-if the problems occured later, they should have been solved out later under the term of warranty which I understand FP has declined to.
3-Again I assume that the defects are not major ones since you managed to make 3.000 nm.. or you fixed them all on yr expenses..
4-I am not familiar with french legislation, but in Turkey if the supplier couldn't fix the defects within 3 months , he has to either reimburse the money or (if the custmer agrees to) change defectfull vessel with another one.
Did you take any legal action ??


Cheers

Yeloya

[lstyles]

Hi,
You mentioned you have had a few leaks on the Mahes. Can you be more specific about where they were? My experience with other boats is that those leaks tend to occur in other boats as well. The reason I ask is that I recently noted a slight leak in Starboard window (along passageway) and wondered if others have had similar. If so their experience might make it easier to locate the source more quickly. By the way, I love my Mahe and she has now gone over 6500nm with little trouble. She seems fast to me (compared to other larger cats I have sailed) but I keep her light.
thanks,
Lori
Venti
Mahe #60
On her way to SF Bay

[jean1146]

No leaks on my boat. Just a few problems so far and everything was fixed under the warranty.we know have over 3500nm and we are really enjoying our boat.
JC.

[Kipper]

Originally Posted by pguillemin

we have boats which have crossed the Atlantic on their own bottom.Some required cosmetic repairs on dents or gel coat .
We had a few leaks as well but nothing drastic
Flexing .They do flex .Seems to be the nature of lights and fast cats; and creaking or squeaking seems to be a problems on boats with an overtensionned rig

That's interesting I just crossed the Atlantic on my Mahe and I would say my only real complaint was the noise. She creaked and squeaked alot more than I expected. Have you actually had success re-tuning the rig on other Mahe's to eliminate some of this noise?

[jean1146]

Ours is still creaking,much less than before but still at the stairs on both sides.
JC.

[Scott730]

we have the same creaks and groans as discribed by others, but we are getting used to them. Lets face it, all boats have thier own creaks and can be atributed to the design. The good news is that there is little "slapping" do to the nice freeboard on the boat. I know of a Mahe that was delivered with mine that had both port and starboard hull windows leaking quite a bit of water, he needed to run both bilge pumps during his deliver. All was fixed by our broker, as I understand it. I have had no similar issues.
All the warranty issues I've had to date have been dealt with by my broker. All said we have a fun boat and are enjoying it.

Scott