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Lagoon4us · 10-10-2012, 14:26

If you look at the evolution of style and design of catamarans right from the Wharrams through the Crowther's to what we have now you'll notice a dramatic change in cabin and sheer shapes.

It came from the use of 'French Curves' a plastic drawing template used at the time by draughtsmen. Gone were the boxy albeit functional cabins to a more streamlined curvy style.

Schionning are a good example you could lay a french curve over the profile and achieve a perfect match. BUT whilst you effected a low wind/sea resistance profile it bought in curves to windows which were initially made of Perspex then Lexan, these materials have a high coefficient of expansion and soon broke free from their bondings resulting in leaks...

FP in some of their designs carry this use of French Curves into the interior resulting in triangular benches and ironing board shapes on the cabin head.

My taste doesn't go for this at all for a Cruising boat i prefer a 'boat like' timber varnished fit out. Initially i didn't like the Lagoon 440 profile i thought it was a bit 'tank like' BUT now having experienced the sheer room inside with windows sheltered by a brim above and hatches forward on the cabin front that let volumes of airflow in i love it.

One FP style i really prefer over all others both new and old is a Fountaine-Pajot Eleuthera 60,profile wise, to me it's a blend of all things right. It's a powerful functional looking design, i haven't looked at the interior or it's layout, i guess because i cannot afford one anyway BUT it ticks the boxes for profile...

Only my thoughts.

Cheers Frank

Sander · 10-10-2012, 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by John_ZA

Couple of things from an armchair observer (for the time being).

I think the Helia is a really good looking boat and looks extremely comfortable. I think the 450 is absolutely stunning and is also extremely comfy.

The 450's saloon is larger and therefore the mast is more forward than the Helia - I have sailed neither so I can't comment but I surmise that in certain conditions the Helia could be slightly (read negligibly) better in terms of hobby horsing although the 450 has 2 feet extra in length which may negate this argument.

Two things where I think the Helia falls short and please correct me if you think i'm a loon. The davits on the Helia look too low and gives the impression that the tender could get swamped in rough seas. The anchor position is the other issue I have, if anchoring in sludge how do you clean the chain before it gets into the locker.

I am a great advocate of the flybridge on the 450 and I think the Helia's answer to this is even better as it allows the boom to be closer to the deck. I have read that the Helia sails better but I would like some real world comparisons as the figures quoted were 5 kn in 7.5 wind, I would hazard a guess and say the Helia was empty (no cruising gear, tanks very low etc) so a like for like comparison would be valuable.

I believe, correct me if I am wrong, that the Helia can be ordered with anywhere from 2 to 4 heads, to me 2 heads on an owners version is more than enough and I know Lagoon will not entertain the idea of 2 heads in a 450 owners version. I can understand why but they should have thought a little more about this during the conception stage.

Anyway these are just my thoughts and both vessels are in my opinion the perfect long voyage cruising boats. oh and btw i'm 6'.

John, the Helia is only available in 3 or 4 cabin layouts with 3 or 4 heads. I would also have preferred just 2 heads but it was not an option.
Regarding the mast position, I experienced the hobby horsing on several Lagoon models and one of the first things FP told me about the Helia was that they had moved the mast further back (further back than on other FP models) to reduce this.
The 450 is a much bigger boat. And also much higher off the water with steeper transoms. Depending on your use of the boat this can be considered a good or a bad feature.

Nasa · 11-10-2012, 00:50

Back on the Forum after finalising my new Helia's fit out (see it at Paris BS) to read the comparison discussion between LG and FP. Of course I will defend all things Helia as of my contract signing date, but I did love that Lagoon bridge deck at sunset!

MehmetCan · 11-10-2012, 04:07

Nasa, first and foremost, sail your boat in good health.

As for the number of heads discussion, sorry but in order to avoid morning arguments between my guests, I'd prefer to have as many heads as the cabins. Especially knowing that it will not be my concern at all since I'd go for the three cabin version with a hull load of space dedicated to just me!

Oliver66 · 11-10-2012, 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MehmetCan

sorry but in order to avoid morning arguments between my guests, I'd prefer to have as many heads as the cabins.

another way to avoid:

The "special bucket" and ask your guest to use it outside...

MehmetCan · 11-10-2012, 07:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver66

another way to avoid:

The "special bucket" and ask your guest to use it outside...

I'd definately do that for my own sadistic amusement!

... however, it would be even funnier with them knowing that there are enough heads in the first place...

MehmetCan · 16-10-2012, 00:21

By the way, and I'm saying this knowing that I'm going to get some negative comments on this, isn't Salina 48 the real alternate to the L450 in the FP range? Similar interior volume, weights etc. And if you look closely, the L450 is actually closer to 46 feet (45 feet 10 inches)...

Lagoon4us · 16-10-2012, 01:17

I tend to agree there, you know it all comes down to taste etc as i previously noted. Quite honestly i prefer the older Lagoons ie the 440 over the 450, i don't like the high wooded aspect = windage....

Interior wise i prefer the olde style timber outfit of the 440 BUT i prefer the shower stall size on the 450....

It's a matter of personal taste/req's Cheers Frank

NotJustDreaming · 18-10-2012, 08:13

The Fountaine Pajot Helia 44 is my new love. The upper galley is amazing for a boat this size. I love every thing about her. She's gorgeous. I wonder if in five years her used price will be comparable with the other FP boats in her size range.

Base price $452,400 (from the yachtmarket.com)

You can find the video here:

Catamarans Fountaine Pajot

I realize I have a short attention span. Anyone else checking her out? Performance? Or she hasn't been around long enough for that?

Colleen

dochueb · 18-10-2012, 19:50

We're getting close to placing our order for a 3 cabin Helia.

Loved the boat when we saw it at Annapolis. Haven't sailed it, but love the way the Orana sails!

The "base price" might be a bit misleading (as they always are).

Fully outfitted with all the "necessities" (Generator, A/C, ice maker, water maker, cockpit fridge, etc.), looking right around $700k.

If you're willing to rough it a bit more than I am, probably mid to high $600's.

Pretty excited at this point... :-D

DH

Nasa · 20-10-2012, 23:47

A detailed review of the Helia has been placed on the Multihulls general thread. For info.

dochueb · 25-10-2012, 07:51

We did it!!

We placed our order for an owner's version of the Hélia-44.

Ex-factory early Feb, then sailed to US for commissioning here.

We'll probably get it late May or early June.

Pretty pumped!!! :-D :-D :-D