Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-07-2014, 21:29   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Mooloolaba
Boat: Helia 44
Posts: 468
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Andy

Lipari - 150l Vitrafrigo

Helia - 190l Isotherm

Standard freezer option is 90l Isotherm built into galley. Standard Danfoss - heavy on current.

Would need to double current in tropics compared to Brisbane now.

Surprised the Evakool takes so much current. May have to up my assessment of the portable freezer.

Very interested in what the Isotemp takes every day. Hard to measure as distinct from the fridges I know.
__________________

__________________
cwjohm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 21:47   #17
Registered User
 
Dod42's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Fountaine Lipari 41 Evolution
Posts: 353
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

I have found the Freezer very good. I did post the graphs on one of the earlier topics. The little "Bar Fridge" is old and being the beer fridge heavily used so didn't expect much. We tend to only use it while plugged in when we go out we use it more as an esky. I do think the drawer are something of a problem as every time you open the draw the cold air falls out, I guess its the same with the upright freezer. If you are down in Brisbane I can lend you my meter it just logs away for whatever period, then you just download to the PC. This is the Freezer.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	EvaKool60Day.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	411.8 KB
ID:	84544  
__________________

__________________
_______________________________________

https://www.facebook.com/SvTwoflower
Dod42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 02:47   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Boat: secondarily boatless
Posts: 178
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

onthehook,

we have a slightly larger boat with two refrigerators. After doing an upgrade to the wiring of the solar panels and changing all lights to LED we can be at anchor without running the generator, except for water making and laundry. In fact, on a "normal" sunny day the battery controller shows a full battery around 2 pm. The consumption with the two fridges, a GPS for anchor alarm, anchor lights and miscellaneous draws for internal lights is between 70 and 90 AH per night. We have 500 Watts peak of working panels.

Oliver

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthehook17 View Post
Thank you, this Victron battery combiner appears to be the perfect solution.

Next question: Has anyone done a 24 hour load calculation for their Helia? Take for example 2 liveaboard people cruising in the tropics. What would be their 24 hour amp usage on the 12v system.
The most challenging calculation is the refrigeration usage. My total refrigeration draw when all 3 appliances are running seems to be about 23.6 amps at 12.6v. I just don't know how many hours a day they are running.

Thanks for your help.
__________________
Oliver L. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2014, 17:10   #19
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia 44
Posts: 70
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

I would be very interested to see whatever electrical draw information you may have gathered. Thank you for your help.
__________________
onthehook17

s/v Let It Be
onthehook17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 07:32   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Minnesota
Boat: 2014 Helia 44
Posts: 36
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthehook17 View Post
Thank you, this Victron battery combiner appears to be the perfect solution.

Next question: Has anyone done a 24 hour load calculation for their Helia? Take for example 2 liveaboard people cruising in the tropics. What would be their 24 hour amp usage on the 12v system.
The most challenging calculation is the refrigeration usage. My total refrigeration draw when all 3 appliances are running seems to be about 23.6 amps at 12.6v. I just don't know how many hours a day they are running.

Thanks for your help.
We lived aboard from January through May this year. I never got a really good 24 hour amp count due to too many variables (running engines, running genset, etc.). However, I can tell you that with freezer, fridge and cockpit frig all running, all AC shut down, at anchor over night (no autopilot), we averaged very close to about 100-110 AH over 12 hours (9 pm to 9 am) in the Bahamas/tropical temps. Add 20-40 AH if you leave the inverter on with TV, microwave, computers, etc. all drawing some power over night. This does not include any DC watermaking time. I think our expected daily usage is somewhere around 250 AH/day. Our 600 watts of solar was ample for now, as we did a lot of motorsailing and we frequently supplemented the power when we made water (which was typically every other day--Spectra Newport at 20 A per hour draw when running) with the genset. We make water whenever we motor any distance.

I think they changed our charging layout when the local folks supplemented our DC system. I'm pretty sure we charge the house bank on both engines/alternators (from watching the voltage meter while motorsailing), not just one.

I'll have much more accurate numbers this fall, as I move the boat from Chesapeake Bay directly to Puerto Rico in November. But I will plan on 250 AH daily usage. Maybe a little more running autopilot 24/7. Solar providing what it can, with balance handled by genset or motorsailing.
__________________
mndreamchaser1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 18:57   #21
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia 44
Posts: 70
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dod42 View Post
If you are down in Brisbane I can lend you my meter it just logs away for whatever period, then you just download to the PC. This is the Freezer.
I would really like to know more about this meter that measures and records DC current and voltage information over a given amount of time. Do you have a brand and model for this meter?
__________________
onthehook17

s/v Let It Be
onthehook17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 19:13   #22
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by onthehook17 View Post
I would really like to know more about this meter that measures and records DC current and voltage information over a given amount of time. Do you have a brand and model for this meter?
Battery monitors - Victron Energy
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 19:15   #23
Registered User
 
Dod42's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Fountaine Lipari 41 Evolution
Posts: 353
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

I bought mine from JayCar here in OZ but very common in electronic shops
Digital DC Power Meter with Internal Shunt - Jaycar Electronics

They have this good for 30 amps with an internal shunt or another that will uses external shunts cat no CAT. NO. MS6172. They have an add on USB data collection kit.

USB Data Adaptor for DC Power Meters - Jaycar Electronics


I just put the meter in line then use it as per normal for what ever period then come with the pc and usb kit and download the data it has collected. I usually collect it ever 2 to 3 days. Kit comes with software to graph and manipulate the data but it is just a csv file that you can equally play with in excel or similar. It produces very nice graphs, easy to read. I have posted some earlier
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	productLarge_15994.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	13.0 KB
ID:	84668  
__________________
_______________________________________

https://www.facebook.com/SvTwoflower
Dod42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2014, 19:27   #24
Registered User
 
Dod42's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Fountaine Lipari 41 Evolution
Posts: 353
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

This type of meter is different to a battery monitor. I have a Victron BMV-600 which gives me overall usage as well as voltage etc. Great for looking at your current state of play. Shows what is going out of the batteries and what is going back in etc.

I use this smaller meter to look at the usage of each component, to see if I can reduce usage or at least see who is using what. Maybe I'm a power nazi and over thinking things but just by analysing my fridges and how they work this week I have trimmed about 15AH per day load.
__________________
_______________________________________

https://www.facebook.com/SvTwoflower
Dod42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2014, 01:18   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 79
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Hey everyone. We are currently in Vanuatu and tomorrow heading for Solomon Islands. We have the two draw factory fridge, and 90l factory fitted freezer and the obligatory cockpit (beer) fridge. We have been living on the boat since May 5th (when we left Coffs Harbour) and have ironed out may of the foibles with the boat. One of the issues is power consumption. Refridgeration is the biggest issue, to the point where I have removed the fuse of the beer fridge (thermostat would not allow us to turn it off). In 35deg and 80% humidity the frezer runs almost constantly, despite a large vent being installed to encourage air flow over the compressor. My response to all the comments about fridge / freezer power consumption is INSULATION. I can feel the cold on the sides of ther freezer in the cabin and have 50mm of space around the whole thing. We bought a chinese 50mm thick foam matress and stuffed that around it. Had to remove it as it threatened to catch fire, but it the short period it was in it did have a considerable effect on power consumption. As the weather has been so bad here lately we have had to run the genset (FP 6.5kw) 1 hr every day to keep up with consumption. We have 880W of solar panels that at peak have recorded a top of 50A going in. This is about on the mark (880/18V) Allowing approx 6 v drop for travel. On a sunny day we don't have to start anything. We have experienced a week where we ran everything including Watermaker just on Solar and remained about 90-95% charge.

Thats my 2 cents
__________________
Nasa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2014, 06:22   #26
Registered User
 
StarryHorizons's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: USA
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia
Posts: 173
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nasa View Post
Hey everyone. We are currently in Vanuatu and tomorrow heading for Solomon Islands. We have the two draw factory fridge, and 90l factory fitted freezer and the obligatory cockpit (beer) fridge. We have been living on the boat since May 5th (when we left Coffs Harbour) and have ironed out may of the foibles with the boat. One of the issues is power consumption. Refridgeration is the biggest issue, to the point where I have removed the fuse of the beer fridge (thermostat would not allow us to turn it off). In 35deg and 80% humidity the frezer runs almost constantly, despite a large vent being installed to encourage air flow over the compressor. My response to all the comments about fridge / freezer power consumption is INSULATION. I can feel the cold on the sides of ther freezer in the cabin and have 50mm of space around the whole thing. We bought a chinese 50mm thick foam matress and stuffed that around it. Had to remove it as it threatened to catch fire, but it the short period it was in it did have a considerable effect on power consumption. As the weather has been so bad here lately we have had to run the genset (FP 6.5kw) 1 hr every day to keep up with consumption. We have 880W of solar panels that at peak have recorded a top of 50A going in. This is about on the mark (880/18V) Allowing approx 6 v drop for travel. On a sunny day we don't have to start anything. We have experienced a week where we ran everything including Watermaker just on Solar and remained about 90-95% charge.

Thats my 2 cents
Always glad to hear updates from those who are out using their Helias. Can't wait to be one of them!

Refrigeration insulation is something that's on my list for an upgrade, but I know I speak for more than just myself when I say we'd be curious to hear about additional "foibles" that you've had to iron out. Please share once you have internet again!
StarryHorizons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-08-2014, 05:42   #27
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Dallas, TX
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Helia 44
Posts: 70
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

We have 880W of solar panels that at peak have recorded a top of 50A going in. This is about on the mark (880/18V) Allowing approx 6 v drop for travel. On a sunny day we don't have to start anything. We have experienced a week where we ran everything including Watermaker just on Solar and remained about 90-95% charge.

Thats my 2 cents[/QUOTE]


Nasa,
Thanks for your post. Can you give us more info about your solar arrangement. 880 W would be a large landscape of solar. Any and all details would be fantastic.
__________________
onthehook17

s/v Let It Be
onthehook17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2014, 03:54   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burraneer Bay, Sydney.
Boat: Fountain Pajot, He'lia 44
Posts: 325
Images: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to Gordon
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Hi All,
We also doubled our solar to 800W, this was by installing four more panels with all the panels turned through 90 degrees, with simple support and a chrome rail extended back from the side of the roof to shape around the panels to prevent any sheeting hook up.
Very similar to Tim's figures and we also have the same fridge/ freezer layout and have modified the vent system,we managed to match the existing vents and used a small computer fan behind the top vent to assist and it comes on with the freezer motor.
Once temps drop below 30 degrees the fridge and freezer are cycling and our power draw has reduced. With the Med sunshine our batteries reach 100% from an overnight figure of 85% by midday. We have backed up the ECO Monitor with the Victron 702 battery monitor. We also have an extra battery with 750Ah. Have not been using the genset with just the two of us on board, different when guests get through more water and consume more power,more fridge opening etc..
Gordon.
__________________
Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2014, 05:29   #29
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Gordon,
Can you post some pictures of your solar panels?
__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-11-2016, 19:49   #30
Registered User
 
Cotemar's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Boat: FP, Helia 44 Evo
Posts: 5,717
Re: Batteries and 12vdc Systems

Helia 44 Owners,

If you have the standard FP factory 12 volt meter, you have to turn on the Navigation Switch to turn on all the gages and be able to see your battery voltage.

Itís nice to be able to see the battery level all the time without turning everything on.

Here is a simple solution to be able to see the battery level all the time from anywhere in the saloon.

It only draws 8.3 milliamps (0.0083 amps), so you can leave it plugged in all the time. Just unplug it when you leave the boat for an extended period of time.

Want to check your Port and Stb. Alternator. Just take this meter up to the helm and plug it into your 12 volt plug.
Start your Port or Stb. engine and look at the meter for 13.3 to 14.4 volts and that will show your 115 amp Alternator is working properly.

The INNOVA Equus 3721 Battery and Charging System Monitor displays the condition of your battery and charging system instantly.

It protects the engine computer and 12-volt accessories from damaging surges or recharging problems.

- Easily plugs into 12 volt power receptacle to monitor battery and charging system voltage.

- LCD displays measured voltage with a bar graph to indicate battery charge level.

- Color-coded LEDs quickly identify batteryís charge status.

- Head pivots for easy viewing and angle adjustment.

You can find these on Amazon or e-bay for around $14.
.
.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PB250004.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	381.4 KB
ID:	137000   Click image for larger version

Name:	PB250004_2.JPG
Views:	56
Size:	20.0 KB
ID:	137001  

Click image for larger version

Name:	PB250004_3.JPG
Views:	65
Size:	49.2 KB
ID:	137002   Click image for larger version

Name:	PB250004_5.JPG
Views:	64
Size:	53.2 KB
ID:	137003  

__________________

__________________
Cotemar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.