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Old 21-03-2013, 17:01   #136
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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Where is that mate?
I am in Antigua going to Florida, would be nice to catch up for a glass of wine and a chat.
Block Island - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Block Island is part of the U.S. state of Rhode Island and is located in the Atlantic Ocean approximately 13 miles (21 km) south of the coast of Rhode Island, 14 miles (23 km) east of Montauk Point on Long Island, and is separated from the Rhode Island mainland by Block Island Sound

Hi there Stefano,
So you left the Med for awhile?

If you ever get up around the Chesapeake Bay area, let me know and we will have that glass of wine you mentioned
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Old 21-03-2013, 18:33   #137
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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Originally Posted by beiland View Post
Hi there Stefano,
So you left the Med for awhile?

If you ever get up around the Chesapeake Bay area, let me know and we will have that glass of wine you mentioned
Hi Brian,
so nice to hear from you!
Crossed the Atlantic in 17 days, mainly under Parasailor.
Will not hijack this tread and will PM you.
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Old 21-03-2013, 19:29   #138
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
May want to go with LiFePO4 batteries.
They will most likely last longer than you own the boat.
They weight 1/2 the weight of lead acid batteries

http://www.balqon.com/store.php#!/~/product/category=4388904&id=18852825

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks
Having deep pockets, that would be my first choice.
I will need to replace my deteriorating lead acid batteries soon and I would love to shed some weight.

At the moment I have 660A and it is not working well.
We use 150~200A/day and even though I have solar and wind generators, I have to run my huge (7kw) genset for 1~3h day, a very inefficient and uneconomical way to charge the batteries as it starts delivering 80A and quickly go to 60, 40, 10A as the battery charger limits the charge.
I can only fully recharge the batteries when motoring for extended periods or in a marina, both expensive ways to condition the batteries,

If I had 1200A of battery storage, my batteries would take the 150A much faster and the solar could top them up to 100% often.

However if I do some calculation, to get 1200A with the Balqon 90A Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries I would need 1200/90= 13 batteries @ $450 ea = $5,850; weight 13x15= 195kg - warranty 10y

If I buy good Lead acid like the Rolls Surrette S-530 (400A@6V) I would need 6 batteries to get 1200A (@ 12V) cost 340ea= $2,040 weight 6x58= 348kg - warranty 5y (life expectancy 10y).

If my calcs are correct...... I can buy three sets of Rolls in the next 30y.... wait a minute..... I probably will not be around that long
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Old 22-03-2013, 05:38   #139
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With the six volts where would you put the extra two batteries. And assuming you are around that long Im hoping they come ip with cheaper more efficient batteries.
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Old 22-03-2013, 06:27   #140
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

My was just a comparison for argument sake.
In my Salina, I have the width and length, but not the height for the Surrette S530 wich is 425mm, so I would have to look at a different battery, perhaps a different manufacturer.
There are so many sizes and AH configuration that I get lost.....
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Old 22-03-2013, 06:45   #141
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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My was just a comparison for argument sake.
In my Salina, I have the width and length, but not the height for the Surrette S530 wich is 425mm, so I would have to look at a different battery, perhaps a different manufacturer.
There are so many sizes and AH configuration that I get lost.....
So, also for argument sake, recalculate with these:

Balqon - Advanced Transportation Solution

It is 'just' 700Ah, but 70% of it is usable (~490Ah).
With 1200Ah of Lead acid only 35% is usable (~420Ah).
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Old 22-03-2013, 07:05   #142
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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Originally Posted by spiv View Post
If I had 1200A of battery storage, my batteries would take the 150A much faster and the solar could top them up to 100% often.

However if I do some calculation, to get 1200A with the Balqon 90A Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries I would need 1200/90= 13 batteries @ $450 ea = $5,850; weight 13x15= 195kg - warranty 10y

If I buy good Lead acid like the Rolls Surrette S-530 (400A@6V) I would need 6 batteries to get 1200A (@ 12V) cost 340ea= $2,040 weight 6x58= 348kg - warranty 5y (life expectancy 10y).

If my calcs are correct...... I can buy three sets of Rolls in the next 30y.... wait a minute..... I probably will not be around that long
You would only need 7 Balqon 90A LifeP04 batteries ($450 x 7 = $3150)which would equal 1260 Ah of lead acid batteries
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Old 22-03-2013, 16:51   #143
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

Cotemar,

obviously there is something I am missing here....
If a battery is rated at 90AH, why I only need 7 to get 1200AH?


mm, do you mean you can discharge the LIP to 30% without damaging them or reducing their life?

On their website they say: "Cycle Life @ 80% DOD : 2,000 Cycles"
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Old 22-03-2013, 17:47   #144
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

Spiv,

Jump into the LifeP04 thread for the all the info and facts as those guys are the ones replacing there Lead acid house batteries.

http://marazuladventures.files.wordp...batteries8.pdf

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks

LiFePO4 Batteries: Discussion Thread for Those Using Them as House Banks
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Old 23-03-2013, 07:40   #145
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

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mm, do you mean you can discharge the LIP to 30% without damaging them or reducing their life?
Yes.

Have a look at the thread recommended by Cotemar. There is a lot of valuable info on LiFePo properties there.
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Old 18-09-2013, 17:02   #146
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

Hi Mahenians (?)

I've just bought a Nasa BM1 battery monitor. I'm wondering how Jef and Marin or anyone else that's fitted one (or similar) went about connecting the shunt into the neg lead. Do you have to separate the house loads from the engine start. I imagine yes as the starter draw must be way over the 100amp shunt capacity. If so, how did you go about it, the single earth disappears into the switch box which it would seem is impossible to get at. Also, what is the most convenient way to route cables through to the nav station from the port engine?
We've had a fantastic first season on Victoria helped no end by the best summer in years.

Thanks in advance, Jon.
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Old 21-09-2013, 11:39   #147
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

Jef has answered my monitor question in a pm. Thanks Jef!
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Old 24-11-2013, 05:47   #148
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Nice free book on yacht electrical energy

See
http://www.victronenergy.com/upload/...9%20-%20EN.pdf

A nice free pdf book from Reinout Vader called "energy unlimited".
He works for Victron, so sometimes he mentions things they have, but more as example than as trying to sell.
It teaches you a lot.
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Old 19-04-2014, 13:10   #149
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

I've been researching batteries for about a month now due to a failing house bank.

What I've learned so far:
Solar doesn't produce near as much as it seems.
555W solar = 166ah a day (100W panels produce about 33ah on a good day

LifePO4 have more usable energy.
3 105ah house batteries = 315 ah / 2.2 efficiency multiple = 143 usable ah
200ah lithium / 1.2 efficiency multiple = 166 usable ah

House BMS:
" Warning levels are more conservative than Protection levels, HVC = 14.2V "
" Cell level protection disconnects the bank if overcharged to 15.0V "

Tristar Sealed Lead charge settings:
Absorption Stage: 14.15
Float Stage: 13.70
Equalize: 14.40
Equalize days: 28

Mahe alternators charge at ~14.4v
Most lead shore chargers also charge ~14.4v

Based on this discharge curve, charging at this level would charge the batteries to near 100%.



At first I was planning on building my own LifePo4 battery bank. Here's a parts and price list based on current LifePo4 prices - they fluctuate quite a bit. Tesla being the largest consumer and ramping up production has sent prices up in the past year. However Tesla is opening up a huge LifePo4 manufacturing facility, which should bring prices down significantly.

LifePo4 200ah - Balqon (need 4 batteries to = 12v, each battery 3.3v)
1. HouseBMS (battery management system) = $75 (so you dont overcharge, undercharge battery bank)
2. Cell Balancing - 3 * $12 = $36 (protects individual cells from overbalancing / undercharging)
3. Battery Box - Todd Box - $70
4. 200ah Balquon Lifepo4 - $220 x 4 = $880
5. Battery monitor display - $175
6. Contactor / Relay that is triggered by HouseBMS to disconnect if battery bank is overcharge / undercharged - $90 x 2 = $180
-------------
total for DIY: $1416 + tax + shipping

Add another $1000 and you can get it prebuilt w/ a few more options, one contact if something goes wrong, and in a nice tight tested package.
I like the pre-built box because it's got some good idiot proofing - like protection from reverse polarity. It is also setup to be able to connect cells in series if you want to add more cells later. Individual cells are bolted into place, so if a cell goes bad it can be replaced.

Internal Features:
Low Voltage Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects at 8V
Over Voltage Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects at 15.8V
Short Circuit Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects
Reverse Polarity Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects
Internal cell balancing - Automatically balances cells
Charge Balancing - Independant balancing for multiple batteries connected in parallel or in series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=MEe_F9jY-cM

I'd like to hear any arguments to the counter from those educated in the world of LifePo4. Besides price, these batteries seem to be a good chose for replacing house leads.

I did find two negative reviews: 1. Someone didn't like the installer on Amazon, seems he was too dependent on someone else's knowledge of his systems. 2. A competitor on this forum said they were not good, but gave no details.
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Old 19-04-2014, 13:33   #150
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Re: Batteries And 12vdc Systems

qtmspin,

Give LifePO4 batteries a go and keep us posted.
A lot of Cruisers are starting to put them in as a house bank. I will most likely put them in when the time comes.

I still have my 4 House Maintenance free Calcium batteries that are going strong after 6 seasons.

I actually have 400 amp hours as I leave my emergency switch flipped to connect all 4 batteries all the time. It has been like that for a few years now with no issues.

My 460 watts of solar panels is putting out a lot more than my Mahe even uses.
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