Mahe 36: Anchor and Windlass

[Cotemar]

Scott,

As Jef pointed out, its in the empty space behind the fridge.
Here are some detailed pictures of it.

Mark

[oranaman]

Hi Guys,

My anchor windless on the Orana is a Quick T510 rated at 1500 watts. IMHO its a horrible crude device with no attempt made to minimise the large arc that will occur every time the contacts are opened with 80 odd amps being switched. So yes I suspect that it is best kept well away from sensitive electronics. Well after using our 33Kg Rocna anchor for over 300+ nights at anchor the up mode contact intermittently stopped working. If this happens try reversing the two outer spade connectors (see my anchor override posting) - so up becomes down and vice versa. Now you may have to manually deploy the anchor but at least you can use the windless to pull up the anchor. So after this temporary resolution, I pulled the solenoid apart and found it works by the centre large 8mm contact (main positive supply) being connected to either the up or down (outer 8mm contacts) using a sprung loaded contact moving up/down. The contacts are removable but of course you can't buy replacement contacts (Bainbridge UK distributors). The up contacts were burned badly and the down less so, there are no supression components fitted. A temporary repair could be made by resoldering the contacts in order to produce a bump of solder maybe reinforced by a small copper contact. The windless is rated at 1000 watts and the solenoid rated at 1500 watts so its not overated. I suspect that these solenoids are regarded as consumables for rich boat owners to replace regularly. As the boat is now out the water until May 11 I will probably research a replacement with supression components and/or build a replacement using 2/3 automotive 150a relays in parallel which is cheaper and readily repairable by using plug in relays.

[Jef & Marin, Netherlands]

Oranaman, thanks for your information. Changing the connections on the anchor relay is a good idea.
We try to do a little switches as possible, and always lower the anchor manually.
In our Mahe the anchor winch also stopped working in one direction. The relay was OK, we suspected the motor, and sailed (3 days) during our holiday to the Danish dealer. Took the winch out, took a taxi. The Danish Lofrans dealer measured the thing, also concluded that the motor was faulty, and replaced the motor with a new one. Which had the same problem....
Well, what was the real problem: In the Mahe there is a cable pipe going from the windlass to the relay. Halfway this pipe, unreachable, the wires from the windlass were extended using very large terminals. It turned out that the terminals were tightened, using the required tool, on only 2 i.s.o. 4 places. Only the 2 outer sides of these terminals were tightened, effectively connecting the terminals only to the plastic isolation of the wires. On the inner side, where the copper should be connected, there was no tightening...... By luck (some strands of the copper wires touching) it had been working for over 1 year.
The Danish Lofrans dealer was very polite and relaxed about it, despite the time it cost them. I took a taxi back to the marina; 4 days lost; and decided also to be relaxed about it. Luckily it was 4 days lost from a 5 month trip and not from a 3 week holiday.

[Serendipity129]

I must admit to some trepidation about asking an Anchor question, as I have just spend 3 hours reading endless commentary but here goes....

I 'think' I am set on buying a 20Kg Rocna for main anchor on the new Mahe. Will it fit?

I have seen photos of the same anchor installed on a lipari and it didnt fit. The roller bar on the Rocna impacts on the side of the bowsprit as it enters the anchor locker

I understand a few owners have them; any comments please.

Important point my boat has a factory spinnaker bowsprit.

Second choice is a Delta?

[Cotemar]

Serendipity129,

I am hoping "Jef & Marin, Netherlands" will chime in with the real answer and pictures of how his Rocna 20kg fit a Mahe 36 with a bow sprit.

At this point I can share some pictures that may help show you the offset to the bow sprit.

The first pictures are from a Mahe with a bow sprit, but the anchor is a CQR.

The Rocna pictures are from my Mahe without a bow sprit.

Mark

[MKB53]

Hi Serendipity129

My Tuppence worth.

I fitted a 16Kg Manson Supreme and am very happy with it.

It fits fine with the factory prodder. The only issue is that the shank bounces against the top of the fibreglass cutout as the anchor comes home through the fairlead.

You will need to fit a s/steel bar across the top of the fairlead to protect the glass.

I worried a bit over the weight of the anchor to use and eventually went with what Manson recommended which was 16KG. The theory is that the weight of these anchors is a lesser factor than with ploughs. This anchor sets like a rock and I have never dragged it, unlike the 16Kg plough supplied as standard. The only difficulty setting it has been in sea grass but once you penetrate teh grass it is good.

Asking advice on anchors is a great way to start an online argument!

Cheers
Martin

[lstyles]

I have a question about the cayman 88 gypsy as I am reconfiguring things. Is the gypsy made to take line as well as chain? When I look at their catalog it appears that the gypsy is not for line as well as chain however that is for their present cayman model. My gypsy has a slot in the middle which looks like it would take some line but it doesn't have the usual chevron in their to grab line. My boat (#60) came with a cayman 88 but I think that the drum and gypsy are on opposite sides (the later models seem to have come with the drum and chain on the same side which makes the transition from chain to rope much easier when lowering or lifting the anchor). I am not near my boat right now so can't check to confirm that gypsy and drum are on opposite sides. I presently have 50 feet of 10mm chain and then line for a rode. I have seen what others have done with their rodes mostly going to all chain. We don't have much coral here in california/mexico so all chain not really necessary. I try to keep weight down as much as possible so am going to just try to stay with 50 feet of chain for now. Trying to figure out what size line to replace rope rode with. If the line can go into the gypsy then there is usually a specific size of line you are supposed to use. If its just gonna wrap around the drum then there are more options in size. Because it is difficult to change from chain to rope while lifting/lowering with the drum and gypsy on either side I am hoping that the gypsy is supposed to take line as well. Does anyone know anything about this...I have looked online without success and lofrans literature hasn't helped.

One additional question...I would like to use the g70 8mm chain that Jef used as its a good compromise between extra weight and having all chain. Of course I can't get it at West Marine but was wondering if their is any way to order this chain for delivery to US (West coast)?

Thanks
Lori

[Cotemar]

Lori,

I have 176 feet of 5/16 High Tensile G4 chain.
We have never used the 200 feet of 8 strand plait 5/8 dia. nylon rode tied onto it.

Call or e-mail Lofrans USA distributor. www.lofrans.it
I called with a few questions and they were very helpful.

Imtra Corporation
30 Samuel Barnet Boulevard
New Bedford, Massachusetts
02745 USA
Tel. 1508995-7000
Fax 1508998-5359
Fax 1508998-5359
jim@imtra.com

[Cotemar]

Anchor Righting Swivel, brings up and stores the anchor even when backwards
Everyone has the anchor come up backwards some times. It is usually corrected by tugging and twisting on the chain which is not very good for your knee’s or back. Have tried regular swivels with no luck.

An Anchor Righting Swivel does all that for you without the fuss or back problems.
I have tried everything, but with the Anchor Righting Swivel, it just works every time no matter which way the anchor comes up.

It’s intended to orientate the anchor correctly for the bow-roller, and un-twist your chain at the same time. They present all the pros and cons of any swivel, and tend to suffer from the disadvantage that they are physically longer and so may not easily fit between an anchor and windlass. They do however in general work very well, rotating the anchor in a controlled and non-violent fashion and ensuring a smooth recovery onto the roller.

The Twist Anchor Swivel.avi - YouTube

My anchor ground tackle consist of:
Rocna 20Kg / 44 Lbs Anchor
176 feet of 5/16 High Tensile G4 chain
200 feet of 8 strand plait rope

Anchor Righting Swivel- Stainless Steel 10-12mmPart No: EYSAJSS-10-12
$114 us including shipping
Suitable for 10-12mm (.393-.472 inch) chain.
320mm (12.598 inches) long x 38mm (1.496 inches) Dia.
SWL: 2000kg = 4,409 pounds
BL: 8000kg = 17,637 pounds
http://www.seamarknunn.com/acatalog/info_EYSAJSS-10-12.html

Crosby 209A 7/16" shackle $11.30 us
Working Load Limit (WLL) 2.6 ton or 5,200 lbs
A) Pin Diameter .5 inch
B) Throat Opening .75 inch
http://www.riggingwarehouse.com/products/RIGHARD01/RIGHARD01@@2e22/RIGHARD01@@2e22@@2e04.aspx

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Everyone has the anchor come up backwards some times. It is usually corrected by tugging and twisting on the chain which is not very good for your knee’s or back. Have tried regular swivels with no luck.

Is this a problem for a lot of people? In 8+ years and 100's of anchorings, we've never had the anchor try to enter the bow roller upside down.

I believe it depends on how your bow roller is setup. Ours has a metal loop below and slightly in front of the roller. When the chain is straight down, as it is once the anchor is off the bottom, the chain drags across the loop creating a very slight angle. When the anchor reaches this point, gravity flips the anchor into the correct position for the roller. Additionally, we don't run the windlass at full up speed when the anchor is close to in, we tap it in the last few feet which gives time for the twists to work out of the chain/anchor.

Of course, anchoring for us is a two person task, one out front and one at the helm.

[Cotemar]

DotDun,

My First mate chooses to do the anchoring when I am at the helm. Wish she would just take the helm, but she prefers not to. Even when I tell her that anchoring is by far the most dangerous task to do on a boat.

We anchor out a lot and the anchor seems to come up backwards every other time.
Even if you serge the anchor back down, it will not turn.
Tried a regular swivel and that did not work, but allows you to bring the anchor just up to the roller and reach through the net and turn it by hand. My First mate’s arms are not long enough or strong enough to reach through the net and turn the anchor, so again I have to leave the helm and do it for her.

My personal choice would be to have and anchor with a large shackle and another large shackle to the chain. I do not like swivels and in my case a regular swivel did not help matters.

The Anchor Righting Swivel does two things at once. Removes chain twist and always puts the anchor on the roller right side up. It just works without thinking about it and lets the First mate do the job she likes and is good at.

An Anchor Righting Swivel is good only if you have this issue. If you do not have this issue, just use the tried and true anchor with a large shackle and another large shackle to the chain.

[Mowzer]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I believe it depends on how your bow roller is setup. Ours has a metal loop below and slightly in front of the roller. When the chain is straight down, as it is once the anchor is off the bottom, the chain drags across the loop creating a very slight angle. When the anchor reaches this point, gravity flips the anchor into the correct position for the roller. Additionally, we don't run the windlass at full up speed when the anchor is close to in, we tap it in the last few feet which gives time for the twists to work out of the chain/anchor.

We have also experienced the problem of our anchor coming up backwards and sometimes it takes a lot of manipulation and frustration to get it turned around. I'd be very interested if you could share a picture of your roller / loop setup.

Thanks,
Catherine.

[SailorTonyB]

Mark,
Looking to do the same on ours.

Have you had any issues/concerns with this set up? How about in windy conditions - does it hold well, or weaken the attachment points?

Thanks,
Tony

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Mahe's,

Since I was working on the Anchor Locker improvements and the First Mate was tired of holding the hatch open. I decided to add an Anchor locker Gas Spring to hold the hatch open. Purchased it from www.spdhardware.com it’s an All Stainless Steel Gas Spring
# SPD-GSSX-2300-60 which has a 60 lb force for $58.
It works perfect and has just the right amount of force. Added it to the back of the locker so it would not get in the way.

Mark

[Cotemar]

SailorTonyB,

We thought wind would be a problem also,but it is not.
It's one of the upgrades that you do and forget.
It just works. No worries.

[Cotemar]

Mahes,

Well you know you have a good windless when your Lofrans Cayman 88 Windlass picks up a 500lbs (227 Kilograms) mooring mushroom. It’s designed with a 220 lbs working load.

Picked this mooring mushroom up in Sag Harbor, Long Island, NY
Was anchored in 7 feet of water and we had our chain sagging down before the bridal connection and that is what snagged the mooring. It caught one chain link and pinched it in the mooring shackle.
To unhook it I went under the tramp in the dingy and hit my chain link and the rusted mooring shacked popped free and slid down while unraveling my anchor chain on the way down.
We motored forward and we were free to pick up the rest of our chain and anchor.