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Old 29-10-2017, 11:22   #16
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest View Post
Thanks Kenomac,

You have no idea how much discussion there has been about "turning left at the big rock". That would be our overwhelming choice but unfortunately I need more time prior to exiting my business and keeping the boat in the Caribbean for a couple years (at least at this point) seems to make the most sense (frequent family travel.)

With all that said, we'll see what happens in makes when it comes time to make the turn

Best,

-Tom
Hey the good news about not turning left at the rock, is that when all is "done" and your are arriving at Grenada from South Africa after a full circumnavigation, you can say... "Wait, we are not done yet. We haven't cruised the med" And there you go towards the Azores
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Old 30-10-2017, 05:10   #17
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Hi Tom,

Congratulations on the purchase of your new Saba. You will not be disappointed. We have just returned home after 92 days on board "Lady Roslyn", our owners version Saba, and I can't tell you how many times my wife Catherine and I discussed how happy we are at having chosen the Saba. It has struck a perfect balance of excellent livability, solid sailing ability and extreme ease of sail handling when shorthanded. Take a look at our website "Lady Roslyn" Saba 50 Catamaran Fountaine Pajot where we have posted blog posts specifically to share the lessons on our journey. Hopefully it might help you with the additions you are considering and also on the choice of parasail.

Cheers Nic
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Old 30-10-2017, 06:32   #18
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Hi Nic,

Thanks so much for you comments, we've been following you and Catherine for many months and greatly appreciate all that you've shared during your adventure. Your experience played a major role in helping us finalize our decision on the Saba.

I incorporated virtually every item in your Ultimate Wish List into our factory order or ex-factory upgrades. Still working many details including,
  • Single line reefing for the 3rd reef
  • How to get more ventilation into the master head and shower.
  • Parasail vs Wingaker, and Code Zero
  • Icemaker - factory vs aftermarket (I've heard the factory unit has issues)
  • Washer/dryer - We initially opted for the Maestro Crew layout and had intended to build out the Stbd bow cabin. We'll likely have to drop the bow cabin as apparently it's the only viable location for the W/D install with the mid-ship crew cabin.
We decided against the swim platform/davits (sadly) due to the 200Kg weight limit instead opting for the hydraulic davits. Can you comment on how large a RIB you think is viable? (We're considering the Highfield CL380.)

We've got a couple years before we go cruising (hence the short term crewed charter) at which time our use will likely mirror what you're doing now (a few months aboard followed by a few weeks home... repeat )

Thanks again for your contributions to the community.

Best,

-Tom
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Old 30-10-2017, 07:04   #19
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your very kind words. I'm really happy that some of the lessons we have learned have been of use to others.

We're learning all the time and I can give you an update on some of our learnings from this season with regard to your outstanding details:

1. Single reefing line for 3rd reef. I would not recommend going for this option if it involves adding Lewmar 72 blocks to the stainless steel U rail at the base of the mast. We changed to have 1, 2 & 3rd reefs all single line this season and I have to say that it created a far more difficult and time consuming main sail raising and lowering situation than before. There are just too many blocks on the U rail for them to run smoothly. Having all the sheets come back to the winch area created a "spaghetti junction" and to raise the sail required constant attention to keep them flowing freely. To stack the main tightly required all 3 sheets being tightened and pulled one by one as you lower the sail which also, in my opinion takes far too long. We have now returned to 1 & 2nd reef single line and will have 3rd as set-up by the factory.
2. I don't know why the factory does not fit a small Lewmar hatch directly over the shower cubicle where, there is most steam and another same sized one in the master head, where there is most smell. There is no need to have it over the basin. We are about to add another same sized Lewmar hatch into the master heads this winter.
3. We absolutely love our Code 0 (which we call "The Beast") In some of the lighter winds of the Mediterannean it really gets the boat going and is a great sail to fly without the main. If you can possibly afford it, the Code 0 and a Wingaker round out the sail wardrobe perfectly. The Wingaker is a sail that will put a huge grin on yo7ur face the moment you launch it. Once you have the hang of it, it is such an easy sail to use which requires very little trimmimg and absorbs wind direction shifts very well. For uninteruppted views all around once flying and a boat silently slicing through the water, there is nothing to beat the Wingaker.
4. Can't comment on which ice maker to buy but can comment that you HAVE to buy one. It is one of the little things that change the game - just ask ANYONE that has sailed with us this year or last year.
5. As we have the owner version, our washer/dryer (Indesit) is in the starboard passage as you go down the stairs.
6. We have the hydraulic davits which are great (I would like to see the swim platform put to the test in a marine environment for a few years before committing to one). The davits were strengthened by adding big s/s backing plates inside the cavity where they are mounted on the stern. We have a ZAR ZF1 3.6m RIB with Suzuki 40hp 4 stroke and while we absolutely love the RIB, it is too heavy. It's fine to use in the Med but would not be at all suitable for a long crossing or use in tidal waters. When we are done in the Med, we will most likely swap it for an aluminium Highfield 3.6 with console and a smaller engine so as to get the weight to around 170kgs or lighter, if possible.
If possible see if anyone else has tried a 3.8m RIB on the Saba. Even with the 3.6m and 40hp Suzuki, we can easily clip and bump the port hull (actually the gold colour vinyl strip has taken the most scratches) with the engine propeller when lifting the RIB out of the water if there is any kind of surge in the water, so adding another 20cm to it would certainly warrant checking first that you are not going to damage the stern as you lift and lower the RIB, which we do a lot.

Enjoy all the decisions and planning. For us its a big part of the fun of sailing.

Cheers
Nic
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Old 31-10-2017, 10:21   #20
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest View Post
  • Single line reefing for the 3rd reefmid-ship crew cabin.
[*]How to get more ventilation into the master head and shower.[*]Parasail vs Wingaker, and Code Zero[*]Icemaker - factory vs aftermarket (I've heard the factory unit has issues) [*]Washer/dryer - We initially opted for the Maestro Crew layout and had intended to build out the Stbd bow cabin. We'll likely have to drop the bow cabin as apparently it's the only viable location for the W/D install with the
-Tom
Congratulations on your purchase. I think you will be very pleased with your Saba 50.

1) I disliked the clutter of the reefing blocks on the mast bail and the lines coming across the sundeck cushion, so I had the Reef 2 & 3 blocks moved to the mast base (along with the existing Main Halyard and Reef 1 blocks). I had them all raised about 1 inch so that the lines had a free run through the deck channel to the turning blocks. I had the two existing turning blocks replaced with two double turning blocks to accommodate the four lines, and replaced the two clutch pack with a four clutch pack forward of the winches.

I've used the Reef 3 one time, so I've pondered to move it back to the mast and instead run the topping lift back to the helm via the base mounted block and double turning block, as it gets routinely used and adjusted.

2) I've not found the master bath ventilation to be a problem. I would not want to cut more openings in the deck. We have no odors from the head, as they were all converted to fresh water flush. Perhaps you could mounted a Caframo Taku 12v hatch fan onto the existing hatch.

BTW. We went with aftermarket Caframo Bora fans throughout the boat instead of the flimsy factory fans.

3) Wish I had a code 0 for my personal use when the boat is not being used by bareboat clients. My hull #2 was a spec boat and did not included the bowsprit setup.

4) We had an aftermarket icemaker installed in the cockpit - Raritan Icerette 85. It stopped working after 15 months (3 months after the 12 month warranty). Raritan did step up supply a replacement model 87 unit. My charter company has put U-Line models in several boats, but I have the impression the mean time to failure is about the same for all these cockpit mounted units. I suspect if you could find a place to mount it in the galley it would have a longer life.

5) We have the four cabin Maestro version, but we don't have a W/D. There's an electrical outlet in the large starboard hallway pantry, which is where I understood the W/D would go (the autopilot compass located in this pantry would then need to be relocated, especially when the W/D is on spin cycle!).

BTW. We had an aftermarket watermaker installed in the stb forward crew cabin. The cabin came unfinished and it had a conveniently located wall opening on the inboard side of the hull that puts the watermaker control unit, high pressure pump, at filters at shoulder-height instead of buried in the engine room on the factory install. It's also just feet away from the water tank. We placed a large media filter under the crew berth, which has significantly extended the life of the downstream filters. The booster pump is located under the forward starboard guest cabin.


s/v Cuvée
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Old 31-10-2017, 11:38   #21
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Congratulations Tom! Great Boat choice, I wish you the best of luck.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:21   #22
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest View Post
We decided against the swim platform/davits (sadly) due to the 200Kg weight limit instead opting for the hydraulic davits. Can you comment on how large a RIB you think is viable? (We're considering the Highfield CL380.)
We have a 13ft (4m) AB Oceanus VST console tender w/ 60hp Yamaha on our Saba 50 with the hydraulic davits. It's a pretty tight fit but it's manageable. I've heard of others having 14 and 15ft tenders on their Saba. The hydraulic davits aren't perfectly centered and we discovered that our tender fits better with the bow to starboard. For our passage from Ft Lauderdale to St Thomas we raised the tender very tightly against the davits and further secured with ratchet straps underneath and from the bow and stern to the scoops, and it handled 4-5m seas and 30kt+ winds quite nicely.
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:49   #23
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Thanks so much for all the comments and suggestions. There are so many decisions to be made. Here's my thought process,

I've got till 2/1/18 to finalize the factory order.
I think we're pretty decided on the Maestro Crew layout, but there is lots of discussion regarding options.

France Vs. St. Martin Vs. Ft. Lauderdale
Once the post-factory build-out is decided, the next question is Where, Who and When (now vs. when the boat comes out of crewed charter.) Some items seem to make sense to complete in La Rochelle (i.e. Parasailor and Flexofolds so they are available for the crossing...) for others (canvas/Textilene, custom lighting and electric...) maybe Ft. Lauderdale would be easier and more cost effective.

Setting aside for the moment the factory options, here's my current post factory build-out in hopes of gaining additional insight from those that have "been there -done that".

France
FlexoFold 3B props
PropSpeed
4 Line Cutters for Saildrives
Parasailor and rigging
Antifoul (factory vs aftermarket)?
Sun Lounge and Forward cockpit Sun Shades (factory vs Canopee)
Highfield CL360/380 w Honda 25HP (the largest that will fit balanced against ease of use in the Caribbean.)
Drinking water/ice filtration system (Seagull?)
Canvas (I like the enclosure David and Amy had fabricated on Starry Horizon)
Full cockpit enclosure in textelene
Helm enclosure in textelene
Textelene net cover for trampoline
Custom hardtop Bimini (now or wait till after charter?)

Electrical/Lighting
Battery monitor (Link Pro needed with SmartCruise?)
4 365W Sunpower (Now or wait till out of charter and double W + LiPo and larger Inverter)
Galvanic Isolator 110v protection
Additional AGMs (factory vs aftermarket)
Add USB/110V Outlets (~8X)
Install customer-supplied Flat Screen TV/Mount (3X)
12V Cabin Fan - Caframo Sirocco (10X) (Factory install 6 for wiring?)
Underwater lights variable color (4X)
Large LED Flood Lights to Light up Fore Deck and Aft Deck (Wait to evaluate current lighting)
Tri color LEDs Cockpit/helm/Saloon (Wait to evaluate current lighting)
Foredeck/helm/speakers
Iridium go w/ external antennae
WiFi / Cell Extenders

Hull & Appliances
Saba 50 Hull Treatment (all included) Hull cleaning Wax hull cleaning Primary application International Inter Protect x 1 coat Antifouling application International ULTRA EU x 2 coats Primary application International Primocon on saildrive and propellers Antifouling application International Trilux Prop on saildrive and propellers.
Convert Butane Gas to Propane System
110v Icemaker with wedge (wood) (Factory vs aftermarket)
Washer Dryer (Splendide vented - Where on Maestro Crew?)
Upgrade Strainer on Factory Air Conditioning (1 needed per compressor)
Countertop Microwave (mounted right of Oven)
Passerelle/gangplank options (attach points?)

Fuel/Ground Tackle
Fuel Polisher/Fuel Transfer System (Wait to evaluate current system)
Raycor 77/500 Fuel Filter System (Per Engine)
Anchor package to Mantus/Rocna 300ft 3/8 HT Chain, 3/8" Gypsy and 150ft Rode (G4 vs G7)

Plumbing
Convert electric heads to fresh water flush to (5X)
Fresh and Salt water Washdown pump (foredeck)
Hot water to Aft Shower
Add Second Wash Down Outlet aft

Rigging
Autoreefs of Reef 1 & 2
Extra Stb Winch aft for Downwind Sail
Move Lazy Jacks to Cockpit and clutch (effective?)
Install Foot Switches for 3 Electric Winches
Rub Streaks for Running Rigging
Gennaker/Code Zero?

Safety and Comfort
Flexiteak of 5 heads/showers, helm and sun lounge and forward cockpit
Handrails to Port and Stb Cabins
SS Grabrail from Helm to Cockpit
Add Extra set of Slatted Base for 5th Cabin
Ladder to Mast
Outboard engine lift and mount
Fishing rod holders (2x)
Alarm/Monitoring system (ghost, siren…)

For some insight,

I'm planning the boat will serve ~2 years in crewed charter until we're ready to go cruising. We'll use it as a vacation home for 2~3 week intervals while I work toward exiting my firm.

I acknowledge I'm building a "CondoCat". While cost (and sailing performance) is a concern; my family has some special needs that have to be accounted for (significant other with a very bad ankle and daughter with Down Syndrome) hence some of the mobility equipment / safety decisions (i.e. gangplank/passerelle.) Most importantly, for this to work for my daughter, I have to as closely as possible recreate her life and creature comforts at home. I've gladly accepted this as a trade-off for being able to accomplish a life's dream.

I anticipate we'll be short handling the majority of the time so absolute priority to given to configuring the boat for same. I'm studying every single-handling resource I come upon and look forward to practicing on the water.

Adding to the short handling design importance is my lack of sailing experience. Growing up in Michigan, I spent lots of time on the water but mostly power boats (I've always been a sucker for Chris Craft Mahogany.) My sailing was limited to Hobies and sailing dinghies. I've completed ASA 101-114, have chartered a Helia and 450S and am continuing my training both on and off the water. I have an aviation background which helps but acknowledge my overall lack of experience.

My plan is to take advantage of the week's training offered by FP in La Rochelle and to train with our crew on the passage to add to my abilities. I've also included our family (6 grown kids) in our trips and training so when they are available, I've got trained crew.

I look forward to all comments and suggestions and sincerely Thank You for taking the time to aid us on our journey - It's truly appreciated.
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Old 24-11-2017, 07:31   #24
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

What are you thoughts on the new Sunreef 50? Looks like this could be some new competition!
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Old 24-11-2017, 07:37   #25
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

[QUOTE=Taylor Kelly;2524146]What are you thoughts on the new Sunreef 50? Looks like this could be some new competition!


So 3 posts in 3 weeks all asking about the Sunreef 50, are you advertising these by chance?

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Old 24-11-2017, 18:18   #26
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
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What are you thoughts on the new Sunreef 50? Looks like this could be some new competition!
Not sure about your Sunfreef fascination but we’re not interested at all. The flybridge is a deal-breaker for us.
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Old 25-11-2017, 10:21   #27
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Tom,
Congrats on your purchase, I'm jealous! I'm actually right down the road from you in Brighton, I live in Orchard Lake...its funny because we've followed a pretty similar path on the transition from power boating in this beautiful state to sailing. I just returned from chartering a new Helia 44 in the Abacos and it was fantastic, great boat!

Anyway I have a couple questions for you on how you picked the Saba 50. I was at the Cannes Yacht Festival in September and spent time on pretty much every catamaran. (side note, everybody who enjoys boating should attend that show at least once, spectacular time!) My girlfriend and I went with me trying to convince her that an Outremer 51 was the way to go and her trying to keep an open mind lol. Thankfully she loves the water and boating as much as me. Anyway, the boat we kept coming back to was the FP Saona 47. So questions are:

1) Did you consider the FP47 and if so what was the drawback?
2) You mentioned the 50 solved a few of the issues you had with the 44, what in particular do you not care for on the 44?
3) Personal question & feel free not to answer - but if you are going to be putting it into charter for a couple years to offset costs, why not just buy a really nice used boat then when you are ready to go?

After spending a week on the 44 I thought it would be close to perfect for the two of us, the 47 is REALLY nice and unfortunately after walking my significant other through that boat it is going to be nearly impossible for me to convince her that the Outremer 51 would be the way to go. Actually for the 1 knot on average improvement vs the ridiculously more comfortable and livable environment of the "condo-cat" it is hard to argue.

Hope you had a nice Thanksgiving and nice to meet a fellow Michigander who likes to sail!
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Old 25-11-2017, 13:50   #28
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
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Tom,
... we kept coming back to was the FP Saona 47. So questions are:

1) Did you consider the FP47 and if so what was the drawback?
2) You mentioned the 50 solved a few of the issues you had with the 44, what in particular do you not care for on the 44?
3) Personal question & feel free not to answer - but if you are going to be putting it into charter for a couple years to offset costs, why not just buy a really nice used boat then when you are ready to go?
Thanks for the note and Happy Thanksgiving!

I've spent the last 3 years living, eating and breathing Cats. We attended the Miami and Annapolis shows and chartered a 44 in the Abaco's and 450S in the BVIs'.

1) Initially, the FP47 was our choice (in fact we had reserved hull 11 until the Miami show.) A few concerns were the genset and placement (shoehorned into Stbd engine well) and switch to Fischer-Panda. We were turned off by the loss of a full size dining table in the Saloon (unless you opted-out of the galley island.) That has now been resolved with the addition of the electric multi-function table (which we also opted for on our Saba.)

Once we decided against swim platform/davits (weight restriction) and were considering a short time in crewed charter - the owners version of the 47 become less desirable. To us the Saona felt smaller than the much less expensive 450S and we missed the larger forward cockpit. When adding in the unknown risks associated with early build of a brand new hull – the Saba looked like the choice.

Next came the 450S which on paper and from a value perspective seemed an easy pick. We chartered a brand new 450S (2017/in service for only a few months) and discovered issues that for our family with our physical limitations were less than ideal. We also experienced many fit/finish issues that could have been a result of poor maintenance in charter but none-the-less reflected very poorly on the boat.

2) All the while, we kept coming back to the Saba. We really liked the Helia and had we planned on only having 2 or 3 aboard - it likely would have been our choice. To us, the Saba is simply a Helia on steroids.) Specific advantages include,
  • A commonly accepted idiom is to buy a boat for how you will use it, rather how many or how often you expect guests. In our case, it made sense for us to plan on the family. The Maestro Crew layout maintains a beautiful owners suite while providing 3 other full size cabins plus a midship double crew cabin. This layout (including the large forward cockpit) also provides significant advantage for the time in crewed charter.
  • We are serious foodies. The extra galley counter, working and storage space was a win.
  • The Saba provides more useful load. As I eluded to earlier, in order to accommodate my families special needs; I'm building a fat, condo-cat.
3) As for the buy new now charter vs buy used when were ready to go cruising ...

While I need some time to exit my firm (or mostly exit compliments of satellite comms), I also need to address my significant lack of blue-water sailing experience. The current plan allows me to hire and manage my own live aboard crew that in addition to running the charters and maintaining the boat will also facilitate my continued training including our time in France/Portugal/Canaries and the TransAt. This also proves access to fleet insurance as I expect it would be far more expensive initially for me to secure an individual policy with my limited experience. I also gain base, infrastructure and maintenance support as I go through the learning curve.

I’ve been monitoring the used Saba market and in light of the impact of Marie and Irma and the general trend towards larger boats – I’m unsure of the availability of “fairly” priced used Sabas. I also wouldn’t be surprised if future supply/demand results in larger than average annual price increases from FP.

Lastly; my charter agreement includes an "escape clause" allowing me to quickly exit our agreement in the event we're able to go cruising early (including the outside chance I decide to turn left at the big rock )

With all the said – Every time we step aboard the Saba….it feels like home.
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Old 25-11-2017, 14:36   #29
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Very cool, I'm sure you are going to absolutely love it! I always subscribe to the idea that you get what calls to you...the hell what anybody else thinks is the "best fit" only you truly know.

Right now the timeline has change a bit, although I'm fortunate enough to be able to go now at the drop of a hat, my gf has a couple more years before she can toss the bowlines for good as well. Probably will be a good thing since she works in the airline industry we can hop on a plane for free virtually anywhere to go charter/travel and gain experience. My plan is to do at least 2 charters a year on the targeted boats I think will work for long term cruising. This winter is a Martinique to Grenada run, then Sweden and Greece in the summer.

Where are you thinking you will base your Saba out of, maybe we will charter it to see how we like it vs. the H44
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Old 06-12-2017, 05:54   #30
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Re: 2019 Saba Ordered!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest View Post
We were turned off by the loss of a full size dining table in the Saloon (unless you opted-out of the galley island.) That has now been resolved with the addition of the electric multi-function table (which we also opted for on our Saba.)
Do you have any pictures or additional information about this electric multi-function table? We went with the standard coffee table in ours since she's in crewed charter for the time being, but looking ahead to living aboard I've always been thinking about how to replace it with a convertible table that could be raised and expanded to be used for dining. Would be great if there's now a factory option for that!
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