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Old 27-02-2013, 03:34   #31
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
People who are out there navigating with a tablet use an iPad with iNavX, but there s a significant crowd who regard Apple as the big bad boogeyman and sell their soul to whoever promises an alternative, no matter how rough and painful that road is. Must be same reason there are masochists.
Jedi,

The world is filled with folks that enjoy solving problems, creating new ways for getting things done, creating a better mouse trap. Some people break things just so they have an opportunity to fix what they broke. Some people enjoy keeping their brains sharp by tackling difficult, sometimes seemingly dead-end projects.

Then there are those who can only function inside the box and need everything neatly laid out for them. Like a cat, they don't like changes to their environment and toys - especially if it requires adaptation and learning something new.

armido
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Old 27-02-2013, 04:48   #32
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Originally Posted by armido View Post

Jedi,

The world is filled with folks that enjoy solving problems, creating new ways for getting things done, creating a better mouse trap. Some people break things just so they have an opportunity to fix what they broke. Some people enjoy keeping their brains sharp by tackling difficult, sometimes seemingly dead-end projects.

Then there are those who can only function inside the box and need everything neatly laid out for them. Like a cat, they don't like changes to their environment and toys - especially if it requires adaptation and learning something new.

armido
I know what you mean and can assure you that I am a Jedi from the light side; I have spend my life and earned my money taking the difficult road. However, when you go out sailing, it is not about using an unsupported tablet. It is about sailing to places where not even governments tend to go, surrounded by Indians who speak languages that even their own govenment doesn't understand. When you are sailing, you are always at risk somehow and you use technology to aid you during the passage, not to keep the brain sharp.

On Apple, you are mistaken. Apple is solidly on the light side and the safekeeper of BSD Unix. Every Mac runs it; they just made a user interface that is better than what you get with the other Unix flavors, but also give you X11 with it. It even has Apache httpd pre-installed.

The apps for iOS are not from Apple. Garmin app is from Garmin etc. You buy them from the Apple store, and sellers must meet some quality conditions before their apps are accepted but that is an advantage. OpenCPN could well be sold, for free, from the app store if somebody would do the port. The development kit is free too. There are more free apps than paid ones it seems.

The point is that the hardware is very good and iOS ain't too bad either, or at least better than Android... or support the hardware better than Android. One could spend time on creating much needed apps better than trying to make some cheap, low quality tablet run an obsolete piece of dinosaur OS

cheers,
Nick.
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Old 27-02-2013, 06:08   #33
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I know what you mean and can assure you that I am a Jedi from the light side; I have spend my life and earned my money taking the difficult road. However, when you go out sailing, it is not about using an unsupported tablet. It is about sailing to places where not even governments tend to go, surrounded by Indians who speak languages that even their own govenment doesn't understand. When you are sailing, you are always at risk somehow and you use technology to aid you during the passage, not to keep the brain sharp.

On Apple, you are mistaken. Apple is solidly on the light side and the safekeeper of BSD Unix. Every Mac runs it; they just made a user interface that is better than what you get with the other Unix flavors, but also give you X11 with it. It even has Apache httpd pre-installed.

The apps for iOS are not from Apple. Garmin app is from Garmin etc. You buy them from the Apple store, and sellers must meet some quality conditions before their apps are accepted but that is an advantage. OpenCPN could well be sold, for free, from the app store if somebody would do the port. The development kit is free too. There are more free apps than paid ones it seems.

The point is that the hardware is very good and iOS ain't too bad either, or at least better than Android... or support the hardware better than Android. One could spend time on creating much needed apps better than trying to make some cheap, low quality tablet run an obsolete piece of dinosaur OS

cheers,
Nick.
Jedi,

Your biases are duly noted. Care to name the cheap, unsupported tablet and dinasaur O.S.? Apple products sport a linux kernel, but beyond this the programs are purely proprietory and closed. I wonder, how many places have you sailed to that fit your description? "...where not even governments tend to go, surrounded by Indians who speak languages that even their own govenment doesn't understand."

I've been using my Motorola Xoom, dropped at least three times from a height of 5' without incurring so much as a scratch, for one year with OpenCPN running in a linux (Debian) chroot environment. This tablet has never failed me, and OpenCPN gives me access to vector, BSB, Pilot charts, grib data and a range of features I'll bet none of the nav apps you are limited to using on your iPad can provide. If you are content BUYING navigation apps that come up shy on features, be my guest.

Finally, you have something against innovators an people who do things to keep their brains sharp (active, exercised, challenged, etc.)?

armido
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Old 27-02-2013, 07:09   #34
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Originally Posted by armido View Post

Jedi,

Your biases are duly noted. Care to name the cheap, unsupported tablet and dinasaur O.S.? Apple products sport a linux kernel, but beyond this the programs are purely proprietory and closed. I wonder, how many places have you sailed to that fit your description? "...where not even governments tend to go, surrounded by Indians who speak languages that even their own govenment doesn't understand."

I've been using my Motorola Xoom, dropped at least three times from a height of 5' without incurring so much as a scratch, for one year with OpenCPN running in a linux (Debian) chroot environment. This tablet has never failed me, and OpenCPN gives me access to vector, BSB, Pilot charts, grib data and a range of features I'll bet none of the nav apps you are limited to using on your iPad can provide. If you are content BUYING navigation apps that come up shy on features, be my guest.

Finally, you have something against innovators an people who do things to keep their brains sharp (active, exercised, challenged, etc.)?

armido
Armido, you are misinformed. First, you might check Kuna Yala with Google to find out about it. I've been full time cruising in the Caribbean for the past 10 years.. and you? You must have much more years, to put my wanderings in question so much? Or have you not been "out here" yet?

I use OpenCPN too. I even use it on my iPad. Now, sit and think about that for a while But you are right, buying software is a bad bad thing!

I can do even better than OpenCPN.. look here at this screen dump of my iPad; not just AIS, also real time instruments and even radar! Think about that, useful for navigation you think?!
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Old 27-02-2013, 07:46   #35
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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From the Xgps150 Dual site, here are the recommended, available marine navigation applications. I'm not going to research them my self, but worth considering: are they free, opensource programs; do they use vector charts desirable for offshore cruising, and are you required to purchase proprietary charts or "keys" that enable you to use available charts? Can these applications be used offline with your own charts? Although the site suggests the gps can be used with non-ipad devices, it is optimized to be used with an ipad. What impediments to unencumbered use with a non-ipad device possibly exist. This will most likely be discovered if it exists in the firmware...

The main problem with Apple devices is the user is limited to using Apple applications. Managing and customizing the system file structure is restricted. Want to keep all your music from different sources in one file system (folder), you can't. Only music downloaded from iTunes can be included in the provided folder.

Personally, I'd never buy an Apple product for these reasons. And, as much as I detest M.S. Windows, if linux/android weren't available I'd choose Windows over Apple devices and apps.

armido

Navionics Marine family of apps
iNavX Marine Navigation
Marine Charts from EarthNC
iSailGPS
I don't know where you get your information from but it is inaccurate. Most Applications available to the iPad are "Third Party" meaning not produced by Apple. Yes, it's true they are purchased in the App store through iTunes but for one very important reason, security. Applications offered by developers must adhere to strict apple security guidelines which prevent such Apps from accessing user data such as contact lists and users passwords. Second, One manages the iPad through iTunes. Create playlists, podcasts, sync photos and movies and last but not least automatic backup, which means when you drop the tablet overboard, or upgrade to a new tablet, simple plug the new device into the computer and minutes later, a clone of your original interface is on the new device. So, while you may enjoy some access to the file structure not readily available to the iOS user, there is no loss of functionality for most. I will add there is certainly a higher degree of security with an iOS device. My original observation was the lengths to which some travel to gain functionality with certain devices. I appreciate the exercise and alternative choice of platform. Just here to correct a bit of misinformation.
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Old 27-02-2013, 08:08   #36
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

I looked up local shops and all they have are RT tablets ;-(

Amazingly, an RT tablet costs more than twice an Android one. WHY?

b.
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Old 27-02-2013, 08:17   #37
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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I looked up local shops and all they have are RT tablets ;-(

Amazingly, an RT tablet costs more than twice an Android one. WHY?

b.
Windows RT is only distributed as a pre-loaded operating system on devices produced by participating OEMs. Windows RT officially launched alongside Windows 8 on October 26, 2012 with the release of several Windows RT-powered tablets by various manufacturers, along with an RT version of Surface, the first device capable of running Windows manufactured and sold directly by Microsoft.[1][2]
While it lacks certain features and compatibility in comparison to Windows 8 (which runs only on devices with Intel-compatible processors), Microsoft aimed for Windows RT devices to take advantage of the ARM platform's power efficiency (allowing for longer battery life), using system-on-chips to allow for thinner hardware designs, the new Windows Store platform for touch-optimized apps, and providing a reliable experience over time. Unlike other variants of Windows, the operating system also ships with a special edition of Office 2013 as pre-loaded software. Due to these differences, Windows RT is more comparable to a mobile operating system such as iOS than other editions of Windows.[3][4][5]
Windows RT was released to mixed reactions from various outlets and critics. Some felt that Windows RT devices had advantages over other mobile platforms (such as iOS or Android) due to its bundled Office applications and the ability to use a wider variety of USB peripherals and accessories(Really??). However, concerns were also raised surrounding its lack of compatibility with legacy applications and other functions, and possible confusion for consumers between Windows RT devices and those running Windows 8 due to these differences.
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Old 27-02-2013, 10:14   #38
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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Windows RT is (...) differences.
+1!

The outcome:

- buy RT tablet at twice the price of an Android tablet, with a fraction of the number of Apps available, (in a word, buy less for more),

- buy 8 Pro tablet at 4x the price of an Android tablet,

Now I tell you that the money I have, I work hard for it. Now you tell me what this particular consumer will do.

And I am not the only one. Microsoft will lose the tablet war.

b.
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Old 27-02-2013, 13:43   #39
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
Armido, you are misinformed. First, you might check Kuna Yala with Google to find out about it. I've been full time cruising in the Caribbean for the past 10 years.. and you? You must have much more years, to put my wanderings in question so much? Or have you not been "out here" yet?

I use OpenCPN too. I even use it on my iPad. Now, sit and think about that for a while But you are right, buying software is a bad bad thing!

I can do even better than OpenCPN.. look here at this screen dump of my iPad; not just AIS, also real time instruments and even radar! Think about that, useful for navigation you think?!
Jedi,

There are people who frequent Cruisers Forum who are familiar with my sailing experience. If you examine my profile you'll find scant information. I am not participating in this forum in order to promote myself. I am here to contribute what I can when I feel I have something constructive to say. You fired a volley across the bow of people who are experimenting with OpenCPN on android and Windows tablets, essentially saying they must be masochists. Everything is so much simpler with an iPad... And in your view anything else is a cheap tablet running 'orphaned' OS's.

You have not answered my questions posed in response to your posts. You simply continue your condescending attacks. If anyone who knows anything about my voyaging wants to answer your question pertaining to my experience they can. But, I don't feel it is relevant to this discussion.

Finally, linux is much superior to android. Android is about as insecure an operating system as you can find. My objective is to eventually replace android altogether with linux. Ubuntu has published their OS for use with one tablet in particular. With that, the flood gates are bound to open making Ubuntu, and eventually other linux flavours available to other tablets.

armido
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Old 27-02-2013, 16:45   #40
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

For those of you who saw some screen dumps in this thread and are interested in how MaxSea runs on an iPad, read below. There is also a link to an interesting discussion harvested from the Apple forum that follows.

"MaxSea TimeZero is now available on the iPad through a special configuration. With PC management software and a WiFi access point, customers of MaxSea TimeZero are now using the software on Apple iPads as a remote screen.

For this purpose, a suitable case has been designed for outdoor use. This case protects the iPad perfectly from shocks, and a flexible transparent polycarbonate shell makes it waterproof while keeping all touch screen properties.

This configuration allows you to work directly from your iPad on the deck of your boat while having MaxSea TimeZero installed on your PC inside. The connection between the two systems is completely wireless and enables you to access all software features, especially as the new generation software interface, user-friendly and practical, is particularly suited to the touch features of iPad.

Check the whole procedure at*How to use MaxSea TimeZero on iPad | MaxSea Navigation Software Blog "

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

armido
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Old 27-02-2013, 16:45   #41
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

For those of you who saw some screen dumps in this thread and are interested in how MaxSea runs on an iPad, read below. There is also a link to an interesting discussion harvested from the Apple forum that follows.

"MaxSea TimeZero is now available on the iPad through a special configuration. With PC management software and a WiFi access point, customers of MaxSea TimeZero are now using the software on Apple iPads as a remote screen.

For this purpose, a suitable case has been designed for outdoor use. This case protects the iPad perfectly from shocks, and a flexible transparent polycarbonate shell makes it waterproof while keeping all touch screen properties.

This configuration allows you to work directly from your iPad on the deck of your boat while having MaxSea TimeZero installed on your PC inside. The connection between the two systems is completely wireless and enables you to access all software features, especially as the new generation software interface, user-friendly and practical, is particularly suited to the touch features of iPad.

Check the whole procedure at*How to use MaxSea TimeZero on iPad | MaxSea Navigation Software Blog "

https://discussions.apple.com/thread...art=0&tstart=0

armido
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Old 27-02-2013, 16:54   #42
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

Can anybody please enlighten me. OpenCPN is available for the Mac in dmg format. But everything I've found on the internet suggests dmg files are incompatible with the iPad. Is there anyone who has successfully installed OpenCPN on an iPad? I am not talking about displaying OpenCPN on an iPad remotely via a wireless connection. This concerns OpenCPN software residing on the iPad and running independent of another device. Anybody succeeded running OpenCPN on a rooted iPad in a chroot environment?

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Old 27-02-2013, 17:02   #43
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

Sorry about the double post. My browser indicated the site is unavailable after I pressed "Post Quick Reply" and returning to the previous page displayed a blank message box. Thought the post was lost and did it over. This has happened to me twice now - as some of you may have noticed my earlier double post.

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Old 28-02-2013, 05:21   #44
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

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Can anybody please enlighten me. OpenCPN is available for the Mac in dmg format. But everything I've found on the internet suggests dmg files are incompatible with the iPad. Is there anyone who has successfully installed OpenCPN on an iPad? I am not talking about displaying OpenCPN on an iPad remotely via a wireless connection. This concerns OpenCPN software residing on the iPad and running independent of another device. Anybody succeeded running OpenCPN on a rooted iPad in a chroot environment?

armido
Though iOS is a derivative of Mac OSX, the two are compiled differently.
One might gain some insight here: http://www.cultofmac.com/80645/why-i...other-opinion/
The article is dated, as iOS has progressed from iOS 4 to iOS 6.2, and Mac OSX from
10.7 to 10.8.2 Mountain Lion with 10.9 on the horizon.
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Old 28-02-2013, 08:14   #45
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Re: Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

Tar34,

Your answer to the OpenCPN on an iPad question? Has anyone successfully installed and run OpenCPN on an iPod?

armido
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