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Old 13-04-2013, 17:45   #361
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
Sorry to but in, but I've searched this thread and can't find a solution to my primary problem with the weatherfax plugin. The images I open and edit will not overlay/display in OpenCPN. I am using OpenCPN 3.2 with the current weatherfax plugin (v 0.6) on a Windows 8 machine. Any thoughts?
Please give more information.

Post an images that does not work, what coordinates you have set (lat lon and Y/X values) as well as if you use opengl or not (in main opencpn config)

Try with opengl on and off first.

I don't think anyone uses windows 8, so it's possibly the reason.
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Old 14-04-2013, 12:32   #362
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Re: WeatherFax...

Thank you very much for your hard work with this plugin. I've been searching for months for an open source graphical georeferencing tool and it appears WeatherFax is just what I need. BTW, my computer is a Lenovo U410 with SSD, Windows 8 64bit, with NVIDIA Geforce 610M and Intel HD 4000 display controllers.

I finally got some images to load, and here's some feedback as a first time user of this plugin:

The problems I had loading images were due mostly to my ignorance of the user interface, but it was compounded by a bug explained in the last paragraph below.

First, my thoughts about the User Interface.

Setting coordinates to an image is not intuitive and can be downright frustrating. It took me well over 40 minutes of experimenting to learn how to set coordinates, just on a Mercator map. (I think you made it too easy). Every time I click the image the active "Coord Y/X" radio button changes from one set to the other, then if I double-click the image BOTH coord sets change to the cursor location and I lose my previous set. I suggest renaming the "Coord y/x" sets to "Coord One" and "Coord Two", and keep only one active at a time until the other radio button is selected. That will allow fine tuning one cursor coordinate with multiple clicks. Also make the text of each coord set the same color as the associated cursor lines ("Coord One" = green, "Coord Two" = red). Then have an "Apply" and "Finish" button and get rid of the second editing page which appears to have no purpose other than to show the "Finish" button. It would also be helpful to rename the "Image Coordinates" drop down box to "Saved Coordinate Sets" or something similar that would explain what it represents. It took me twenty minutes to realize the selections in the drop down box had nothing to do with setting coordinates.

One last request to make the editing page more intuitive... change the + or - requirement for Lat/Lon to N(S) E(W) and label the Coord boxes similarly.

The bug I hope you can correct is as follows:

When I finish editing an image, it does not display in OpenCPN until I click the zoom out (-) button. This occurs whether OpenGL is selected or not. However, if OpenGL is de-selected the image will not show at all if I'm zoomed in beyond a certain amount. I have to zoom out multiple times to get the image to overlay, then if I zoom in again beyond that certain amount the image again disappears. Also, when OpenGL is de-selected the image does not respond to the transparency sliders.

Again, thanks so much for your hard work. I hope my feedback helps and if I can assist in any way, please let me know.
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Old 14-04-2013, 16:21   #363
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
Thank you very much for your hard work with this plugin. I've been searching for months for an open source graphical georeferencing tool and it appears WeatherFax is just what I need. BTW, my computer is a Lenovo U410 with SSD, Windows 8 64bit, with NVIDIA Geforce 610M and Intel HD 4000 display controllers.

I finally got some images to load, and here's some feedback as a first time user of this plugin:

The problems I had loading images were due mostly to my ignorance of the user interface, but it was compounded by a bug explained in the last paragraph below.

First, my thoughts about the User Interface.

Setting coordinates to an image is not intuitive and can be downright frustrating. It took me well over 40 minutes of experimenting to learn how to set coordinates, just on a Mercator map. (I think you made it too easy). Every time I click the image the active "Coord Y/X" radio button changes from one set to the other, then if I double-click the image BOTH coord sets change to the cursor location and I lose my previous set. I suggest renaming the "Coord y/x" sets to "Coord One" and "Coord Two", and keep only one active at a time until the other radio button is selected. That will allow fine tuning one cursor coordinate with multiple clicks. Also make the text of each coord set the same color as the associated cursor lines ("Coord One" = green, "Coord Two" = red). Then have an "Apply" and "Finish" button and get rid of the second editing page which appears to have no purpose other than to show the "Finish" button. It would also be helpful to rename the "Image Coordinates" drop down box to "Saved Coordinate Sets" or something similar that would explain what it represents. It took me twenty minutes to realize the selections in the drop down box had nothing to do with setting coordinates.

One last request to make the editing page more intuitive... change the + or - requirement for Lat/Lon to N(S) E(W) and label the Coord boxes similarly.

The bug I hope you can correct is as follows:

When I finish editing an image, it does not display in OpenCPN until I click the zoom out (-) button. This occurs whether OpenGL is selected or not. However, if OpenGL is de-selected the image will not show at all if I'm zoomed in beyond a certain amount. I have to zoom out multiple times to get the image to overlay, then if I zoom in again beyond that certain amount the image again disappears. Also, when OpenGL is de-selected the image does not respond to the transparency sliders.

Again, thanks so much for your hard work. I hope my feedback helps and if I can assist in any way, please let me know.
Yes they have done a wonderful job developing this plugin.

Thanks for taking the time to trail the plug in and to post your comments. A fresh look is a good thing!

There have been many changes to the way to enter coordinates. If you will be overlaying the same fax product you can save the coordinates so that you do not have to go through the whole routine every time. This is quite handy as it makes opening an image much quicker. At the top of the screen where is says “New Coord xx” just type in a name that you want to label the coordinates. The next time you load the image select the coordinates you have labelled from the drop down at the top – presto no need to click the image.

The third screen does not add much for a Mercator projection, but if you are trying to fit a polar fax it serves a valuable function, helping you to refine the mapping information and adjusting the settings so that the latitude and longitude lines do not diverge/converge. Once you have worked with a polar I think you will appreciate it.

I cannot help you with the bug you mentioned. I have Win 7-64 with NVIDIA GTX 560M. There is a bug that affects the first screen after selecting a file to view. Could you check to see if it is present in your system. When the image first comes up after selecting the file to view, if you re-size the window does a panel titled Image Correction appear?
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Old 14-04-2013, 18:54   #364
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Re: WeatherFax...

Thanks LJH,

Being able to save a set of coordinates is indeed very helpful. The problem is, it took me twenty minutes to figure out the function of the drop down list, and another twenty minutes to figure out how to set coordinates for an image.

The user interface suggestions in my previous post were to help a new user trying to fumble through the image editing window. A couple format changes and some renaming of dialog boxes would really help. Not to mention a simplified but more detailed "Instructions" that walks a noobie through each step.

As far as the image rendering bug. It occurs with my machine also. It appears the plugin does not refresh the OpenCPN screen. The image layer shows up only after the main map takes focus (moving, zooming, adding other layers, hovering the map bar at the bottom of screen, etc.).

Other plugins refresh the overlay when the plugin's icon is pressed (plugin is active). Weatherfax appears to rely on a check box in a child window instead of the state of the plugin itself, even to the point of keeping the image loaded when the plugin and it's child window are closed and presumably the plugin is inactive. This is not the way an overlay plugin should function.

I would first try removing the multi-map check box functionality and make the image overlay dependent only upon the plugin being "active" (like other plugins). This will probably require that edited images retain their georef coords and remain loaded on disc somewhere. If that works, then maybe a menu of all edited images can be offered in a child of the plugin window.
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Old 14-04-2013, 19:17   #365
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post

Setting coordinates to an image is not intuitive and can be downright frustrating. It took me well over 40 minutes of experimenting to learn how to set coordinates, just on a Mercator map. (I think you made it too easy). Every time I click the image the active "Coord Y/X" radio button changes from one set to the other, then if I double-click the image BOTH coord sets change to the cursor location and I lose my previous set. I suggest renaming the "Coord y/x" sets to "Coord One" and "Coord Two", and keep only one active at a time until the other radio button is selected. That will allow fine
Yes, but then you would have to click on the radio to change it each time resulting in more clicks. I am not really sure what way is best, I could have an option for this, any other opinions (should it not automatically switch the radio button)

It isn't really possible to click perfectly anyway.. I suggest refining by clicking the up and down arrows for the coordinates once it is close (that's what I do anyway)

Quote:
tuning one cursor coordinate with multiple clicks. Also make the text of each coord set the same color as the associated cursor lines ("Coord One" = green, "Coord Two" = red).
They should already be color coded. Anyone who does not have this?
Quote:
Then have an "Apply" and "Finish" button and get rid of the second editing page which appears to have no purpose other than to show the "Finish" button. It would also be helpful to rename the "Image Coordinates" drop down box to "Saved Coordinate Sets" or something similar that would explain what it represents. It took me twenty minutes to realize the selections in the drop down box had nothing to do with setting coordinates.
Yes, well I used to have apply buttons and it actually confused people. For the case of a mercator chart which is not being resized or scaled, then yes, you will click next, and immediately finish every time resulting in an extra click. I don't know how to make the wizard change this button to finish and back to next in the case so I left it as is. The third page is required for non-mercator images, and is probably useful for ones which have been scaled.

Quote:
One last request to make the editing page more intuitive... change the + or - requirement for Lat/Lon to N(S) E(W) and label the Coord boxes similarly.
Probably could.. so you would type 30N or 30S instead of 30 or -30? Maybe instead it could just take 30S and convert it to -30? Same for E and W.. what do you think?
Quote:
The bug I hope you can correct is as follows:

When I finish editing an image, it does not display in OpenCPN until I click the zoom out (-) button. This occurs whether OpenGL is selected or not. However, if OpenGL is de-selected the image will not show at all if I'm zoomed in beyond a certain amount. I have to zoom out multiple times to get the image to overlay, then if I zoom in again beyond that certain amount the image again disappears. Also, when OpenGL is de-selected the image does not respond to the transparency sliders.
So initially you have to zoom out to get the image, but you can zoom back in and see it (with opengl)? Maybe it just needs a refresh.

As far as zooming in far without opengl. There is not really a technically easy way to accomplish this because it must scale the image in software. So when zoomed in it must create a huge image and consume a lot of memory, so it is disabled on purpose. Now, it may be possible to create a subimage on the fly which just covers the viewport to correct this, but it is extra work. Another potential option is to set the scale ratio when creating the image to something less than 1, and it it should let you zoom in that much farther, but will lose some image quality. Maybe just use opengl?

Also, transparency is only supported with opengl. There is a hack and it should sort of work for one of the sliders without, but not in the same way. Maybe it should disable the slider in this case?
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Old 14-04-2013, 20:45   #366
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Re: WeatherFax...

Boat_Alexandra,

I am in awe of your programming skills. You've done an outstanding job with this plugin. I'm not experienced with posting on forums, so forgive me if my replies are long winded or not quoted properly. Here are some clarifications of my previous email and your reply:

---------- quote -----
Yes, but then you would have to click on the radio to change it each time resulting in more clicks. I am not really sure what way is best, I could have an option for this, any other opinions (should it not automatically switch the radio button)

It isn't really possible to click perfectly anyway.. I suggest refining by clicking the up and down arrows for the coordinates once it is close (that's what I do anyway)
---------- end quote ----

I think it more intuitive to directly connect the "Coord Y/X" boxes with only one dedicated cursor. Select a radio button, do what you have to do to set the correct coordinates, then select the other radio button and do it again. To make a more visual connection, display the "Coord Y/X" boxes and labels in the same color as its cursor.

Perhaps the hard radio button mode could be the default, and the single click mode could be an "expert" option.

-------------- quote --------
They should already be color coded. Anyone who does not have this?
-------------- end quote ----

Yes, my cursors are color coded also, but I'm suggesting making the "Coord y\x" boxes and labels color coded as well, corresponding to its dedicated cursor.

-------- quote --------
Probably could.. so you would type 30N or 30S instead of 30 or -30? Maybe instead it could just take 30S and convert it to -30? Same for E and W.. what do you think?
---------- end quote ------------

In my opinion, sailors (all navigators) think in N/S E/W for lat/lon coordinates. It should be easy to translate N30 or 30N into "30" or W120 or 120W into "-120" behind the scenes in your algorithm.

Also, for a future release, if you could provide a finer lat/lon resolution (degrees, minutes, seconds or decimals) you could use this plugin to overlay much higher resolution images.

---------- quote -------
So initially you have to zoom out to get the image, but you can zoom back in and see it (with opengl)? Maybe it just needs a refresh.
--------- end quote -----

Yes, that is what I think also. However, the overlay also does not disappear when the plugin or its window is closed. See my previous reply above to LJH for my thoughts.

I think it perfectly appropriate to release the plugin with a caveat that it has limitations when OpenGL is not used, with maybe an explanation of the limitations. Hopefully, OpenGL capability is almost universal now anyway.
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Old 14-04-2013, 21:50   #367
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
Boat_Alexandra,


I think it more intuitive to directly connect the "Coord Y/X" boxes with only one dedicated cursor. Select a radio button, do what you have to do to set the correct coordinates, then select the other radio button and do it again. To make a more visual connection, display the "Coord Y/X" boxes and labels in the same color as its cursor.

Perhaps the hard radio button mode could be the default, and the single click mode could be an "expert" option.
This is a good idea
Quote:
Yes, my cursors are color coded also, but I'm suggesting making the "Coord y\x" boxes and labels color coded as well, corresponding to its dedicated cursor.
I will color code both then
Quote:
In my opinion, sailors (all navigators) think in N/S E/W for lat/lon coordinates. It should be easy to translate N30 or 30N into "30" or W120 or 120W into "-120" behind the scenes in your algorithm.

Also, for a future release, if you could provide a finer lat/lon resolution (degrees, minutes, seconds or decimals) you could use this plugin to overlay much higher resolution images.
Well wx-2.8 doesn't support floating point.. only integers for spin boxes.. wx-2.9 does but I need to avoid it for now. Neither is going to support N S E W type thing.

So I could just have it remove the arrows and you enter the coordinates, then decimals and this notation could be used.. what do youu think? no longer would have the ability to set lat and lon by clicking though.

Quote:
Yes, that is what I think also. However, the overlay also does not disappear when the plugin or its window is closed. See my previous reply above to LJH for my thoughts.
I made it cause the overlay to disappear now. As far as not showing up initially, it does for me with and without opengl. Does anyone else experience this?

Quote:
I think it perfectly appropriate to release the plugin with a caveat that it has limitations when OpenGL is not used, with maybe an explanation of the limitations. Hopefully, OpenGL capability is almost universal now anyway.
That is basically what I did minus the explanation. I added it now.

I think some cell phones maybe don't fully support opengl, only a subset so they may not work with it, but not many people run opencpn on a phone yet.
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Old 15-04-2013, 05:06   #368
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Re: WeatherFax...

Sean, I find the spin buttons useful, but am willing to try something different if it is better. Should I GIT and recompile and Post?
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Old 15-04-2013, 18:38   #369
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Re: WeatherFax...

Don't bother yet, I haven't changed much yet.
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Old 15-04-2013, 19:03   #370
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Re: WeatherFax...

Boat_Alexandra,

This morning I was looking carefully at the OpenCPN and Weatherfax windows on my machine as I finished georeferencing an image, and it appears to me the Weatherfax plugin window retains "focus" at the end of the editing session. It probably needs to pass the focus to OpenCPN and refresh.
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Old 15-04-2013, 21:19   #371
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Re: WeatherFax...

Well it does request a refresh from the parent, I added a get focus, so try pulling the latest git and let me know if it did anything
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Old 16-04-2013, 03:10   #372
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
I think it more intuitive to directly connect the "Coord Y/X" boxes with only one dedicated cursor. Select a radio button, do what you have to do to set the correct coordinates, then select the other radio button and do it again. To make a more visual connection, display the "Coord Y/X" boxes and labels in the same color as its cursor.

Perhaps the hard radio button mode could be the default, and the single click mode could be an "expert" option.
This is a good idea
I had trouble getting used to the coordinates changing every time I clicked, but it quickly became second nature to me. I think the hard button mode is a good idea – click, fine tune then do the other coordinate. Now that I have saved coordinates for my common products I select the coordinates and fine tune the X/Y which does not require moving the radio button selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
In my opinion, sailors (all navigators) think in N/S E/W for lat/lon coordinates. It should be easy to translate N30 or 30N into "30" or W120 or 120W into "-120" behind the scenes in your algorithm.

Also, for a future release, if you could provide a finer lat/lon resolution (degrees, minutes, seconds or decimals) you could use this plugin to overlay much higher resolution images.
Well wx-2.8 doesn't support floating point.. only integers for spin boxes.. wx-2.9 does but I need to avoid it for now. Neither is going to support N S E W type thing.

So I could just have it remove the arrows and you enter the coordinates, then decimals and this notation could be used.. what do youu think? no longer would have the ability to set lat and lon by clicking though.
N/S E/W +/- : The +/- is second nature to anyone who has been working with formulas for navigation planning (ie spreadsheet). It makes a number pad entry quick and easy. Can keep both the +/- and the alphanumeric entry? If not the N/S E/W entry would probably be the better choice.

I am pulling weather fax images off my SSB. For this the resolution is perfect. I can see the weather patterns that are forming in the western Atlantic and make educated decisions about my routing in the eastern Atlantic. I am not sure what product I would use at sea will require more resolution for the coordinates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
I would first try removing the multi-map check box functionality and make the image overlay dependent only upon the plugin being "active" (like other plugins). This will probably require that edited images retain their georef coords and remain loaded on disc somewhere. If that works, then maybe a menu of all edited images can be offered in a child of the plugin window.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcan39 View Post
Yes, that is what I think also. However, the overlay also does not disappear when the plugin or its window is closed. See my previous reply above to LJH for my thoughts.
I made it cause the overlay to disappear now. As far as not showing up initially, it does for me with and without opengl. Does anyone else experience this?
I typically load the following products at the same time.
Full Atlantic surface analysis (Boston fax)
UK Atlantic Forecast T+24 (polar) (Northwood fax)
48 hr Atlantic Forecast (Boston fax)
96 hr Atlantic Forecast (Boston fax)
Occasionally I will also load 500mb forecasts (24, 48, 96 hr) as well.

The check box selection for which image(s) to display is a great feature. I like the feature that the grib plugin only displays the grib data while the plugin is active. If I want to view OpenCPN without the weather maps showing it is necessary to de-select all of the maps. Is it possible that when one closes the pugin window that the overlay image(s) hide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
I think some cell phones maybe don't fully support opengl, only a subset so they may not work with it, but not many people run opencpn on a phone yet.
I think tablets are becoming more common now. I have seen reference to loading OpenCPN on an Android system, but I have no idea yet if it runs with or without OpenGL.
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Old 16-04-2013, 03:47   #373
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Re: WeatherFax...

Quote:
Originally Posted by LJH View Post
I had trouble getting used to the coordinates changing every time I clicked, but it quickly became second nature to me. I think the hard button mode is a good idea – click, fine tune then do the other coordinate. Now that I have saved coordinates for my common products I select the coordinates and fine tune the X/Y which does not require moving the radio button selection.
Yes, I plan to support both options
Quote:
N/S E/W +/- : The +/- is second nature to anyone who has been working with formulas for navigation planning (ie spreadsheet). It makes a number pad entry quick and easy. Can keep both the +/- and the alphanumeric entry? If not the N/S E/W entry would probably be the better choice.
I would still keep + and -, but add the characters as well. It may convert once entered.
Quote:
I typically load the following products at the same time.
Full Atlantic surface analysis (Boston fax)
UK Atlantic Forecast T+24 (polar) (Northwood fax)
48 hr Atlantic Forecast (Boston fax)
96 hr Atlantic Forecast (Boston fax)
Occasionally I will also load 500mb forecasts (24, 48, 96 hr) as well.
I was going to have a feature to be able to load many images all at once if the coordinates are already defined to minimize user interaction.. but I have decided to wait a little first
Quote:
The check box selection for which image(s) to display is a great feature. I like the feature that the grib plugin only displays the grib data while the plugin is active. If I want to view OpenCPN without the weather maps showing it is necessary to de-select all of the maps. Is it possible that when one closes the pugin window that the overlay image(s) hide?
I just added that in git, it will be in future releases.
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Old 16-04-2013, 05:19   #374
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Re: WeatherFax...

Hi all,
perhaps it sounds not very smart in a such advanced society but for common users usefull would be a simple manual wiht samples for this great plugin. Thanks in advance
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Old 16-04-2013, 06:42   #375
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Re: WeatherFax...

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Originally Posted by Jacekpio View Post
Hi all,
perhaps it sounds not very smart in a such advanced society but for common users usefull would be a simple manual wiht samples for this great plugin. Thanks in advance
Good idea. If you write a simple manual we can post it on the site.
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