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Old 16-11-2017, 18:05   #1
Moo
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Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

I've come back to the weather routing plugin yet again (rainy day job), but I still can't get it to work at all.

Problem number one is that I can't get it to load a polar file.

I downloaded the setup files referenced in the manual, installed them as per manual. But when I try to select and load a polar from withing the boat section of the plugin I get "Failed to load" error message. No reason why.

Any ideas anybody? A permissions issue on W10? I have UAC turned down to its lowest setting.

I haven't been able to run it for at least a year or so.

I have all the latest plugins etc..

I'd love to play with it, would love to use it on passage too, if only I could get it to work.
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Old 16-11-2017, 20:18   #2
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

OK. The plugin was using a mix of "Program Files(x86)" and ProgramData for the file locations.

Most of the polars that are supplied fail to load for some unknown reason or are in an unrecognised format (at least the ones for boats in the 35' range). I eventually found one that worked.

I added TWS 0, 25,30,35,40,45' columns to the polar to make it work across a more useful range of wind values (it was 8 to 20 as default.. where is that place?).

I got a run that works. I won't run unless you specify a start time a few time steps into the GRIB. That is not a very practical feature as you always want to use the freshest GRIB that you have and not one a few days old!

The plot is bizare. What are the units on the y axis? Most make no sense what so ever. See attached.
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Old 17-11-2017, 02:11   #3
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Moo wrote:
Quote:
I downloaded the setup files referenced in the manual, installed them as per manual. But when I try to select and load a polar from withing the boat section of the plugin I get "Failed to load" error message. No reason why.

Any ideas anybody? A permissions issue on W10? I have UAC turned down to its lowest setting.
Yes, it does run under Win10

Moo, you have discovered yet again that the paths used to Program Files (x86) are write protected. You must direct the path for polar files, boat file, etc to Program Data....

The manual gives the specific pathnames that I think should be used, and the ones that I have asked be set as defaults, but these changes have not been made yet.

See
https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do..._routing_setup

Then go down to Files & Pathnames

I've written about this in git ISSUES
https://github.com/seandepagnier/wea...g_pi/issues/88

IMHO this plugin should have all the defaults and paths set so that it will run with very few changes or actions initially.
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Old 17-11-2017, 04:42   #4
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Moo wrote:


Yes, it does run under Win10

Moo, you have discovered yet again that the paths used to Program Files (x86) are write protected. You must direct the path for polar files, boat file, etc to Program Data....

The manual gives the specific pathnames that I think should be used, and the ones that I have asked be set as defaults, but these changes have not been made yet.

See
https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do..._routing_setup

Then go down to Files & Pathnames

I've written about this in git ISSUES
https://github.com/seandepagnier/wea...g_pi/issues/88

IMHO this plugin should have all the defaults and paths set so that it will run with very few changes or actions initially.
I have read the instructions on the links that list above but struggle a bit with some of it. I am, I think, fairly savy on these things it is just the water is very muddy. Some of the instructions talk about a "file" menu in the weather routing plugin that doesn't exist. Even doing the reset all, installing the files in the ProgramData path and wiping the ones in the x86 doesn't help with some actions sometimes I can get the the edit boat dialogue to open polars, sometimes not, sometimes it come up with errors about reading from programfiles(x86) even though I have tried to open a file in ProgramData. It seems that something is not getting flushed.

Certainly the packaged polar files that are reported as "incompatible format" such as the Alberg 35 and others need to be weeded out of the distributed data package. Better to have just a few that work that can then be tailored by the end user than dozens some of which work some which don't which only adds confusion.
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Old 17-11-2017, 10:13   #5
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Sean is a brilliant programmer but he is clearly not a details guy.
His work has been very helpful in many areas of OpenCPN, but it usually requires someone to do the final polishing.
Sean contributed a huge amount of work implementing OpenGL with Dave doing the integration and polishing.
Sean added Texture Compression and Caching to OpenCPN with DidG and others working out the final bugs.
Sean contributed a shader for the Navico RADAR plugin with Kees doing the integration and polishing.
Sean created the Watchdog Plugin with Jongough completing the final details.
I think there are other examples.

Also, I think that Sean is actively cruising his minimalist sailboat, so, connectivity may not always be that easy for him.

This is not a bad thing, I suspect the bulk of the work is done here, and it probably works after a fashion, but needs to be polished into a final state that us mere mortals can work with.

Hopefully an interested programmer/sailor will step in and bring it to completion.

Again: I think Sean is brilliant, and has made huge contributions here, this is just the way I have seen it happening in the past. If it is understood perhaps it can happen more smoothly in the future.
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Old 17-11-2017, 12:07   #6
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Moo, I am sorry if you feel as if you are the guinea pig. It is helpful to have someone respond, and I will look into these problems. I am able to run wx_routing without too much trouble, because I've used it a lot, but I too have problems at times.

I may have some questions for you as I get into it. Moo are there any particularly confusing/inaccurate/conflicting areas in the manual that need correction? I'd like to get those fixed!

I agree with NahanniIV and think Stelian may help, as he fixed it last time when it was totally broken, but any program volunteer would be good.

Sean is focused on the Pypilot because he sees that as providing more income (and he is probably right0. He does not receive many contributions for his other plugins so he is not really maintaining them as well. It would help if he got contributions from users whoalso told him how much they appreciate the particular PI.
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Old 17-11-2017, 12:16   #7
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Moo, I am sorry if you feel as if you are the guinea pig. It is helpful to have someone respond, and I will look into these problems. I am able to run wx_routing without too much trouble, because I've used it a lot, but I too have problems at times.

I may have some questions for you as I get into it.
No problems Rick, just reporting what I find. Not criticising.

I'll about to depart Fiji for NZ. I'll try to play with it a long the way and see if I can contribute to the wiki after using it for a passage.

I usually route by eyeing the GRIB is ViewFax (probably the best GRIB viewer out there) but that has no plotting capability. I guestimate the sea-state my own comfort factor depending on how we are feeling so rarely end up following a routing. I have used routing in the past when racing weather systems over in the South Atlantic mainly to reassure myself that my gut is doing the right thing

So what I am saying is that I'll try and work it into my workflow and see what I can contribute
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Old 17-11-2017, 13:14   #8
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

So a default polar in the default boat which defines winds over a wide range is needed.

Other than this, I need more specific details of how exactly to change the plugin to make it easier to use.
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Old 17-11-2017, 14:03   #9
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

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Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Other than this, I need more specific details of how exactly to change the plugin to make it easier to use.
What is really needed is some more verbose error reporting than the polar failed. e.g.
GRIB of insufficient duration to complete routing
unable to find a route due to being unable to avoid land
Wind out of range of the polar values
etc. etc.

Once a route is complete having the original GRIB and the current GRIB date time values both displayed is confusing. Just having the data for the stage of the voyage being examined would be good.

Weather information at the cursor position would be good too; rather than just the lat and lon.

More to come as I try to use it on a passage.
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Old 18-11-2017, 02:35   #10
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Moo,
Sean and I have discussed how to improve this for new users, and he details it below, but before that I had prepared a version that would work "out of the box" so to speak, and I would like to know if you are using that version.

This version for Windows is found here:
https://github.com/rgleason/weather_routing_pi/releases

Please follow the instructions found on that page and then the ones linked to in the weather_routing_pi wiki.

I would be very interested to know if there were problems getting routing with those instructions.

Thank you.
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Old 18-11-2017, 13:43   #11
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Moo,
Sean and I have discussed how to improve this for new users, and he details it below, but before that I had prepared a version that would work "out of the box" so to speak, and I would like to know if you are using that version.

This version for Windows is found here:
https://github.com/rgleason/weather_routing_pi/releases

Please follow the instructions found on that page and then the ones linked to in the weather_routing_pi wiki.

I would be very interested to know if there were problems getting routing with those instructions.

Thank you.
Hi Rick,

I didn't use the plugin version from your github. I did use the version from the OCPN downloads page and followed the instructions downloading your setup files.

I created the directories and copied all the files as described. However that doesn't quite do it as the old files in the Programs(x86) directory still exist including a WeatherRoutingConfiguration.xml file that sets some of the boat file paths to the Programs(x86) directory. This confused the hell out of me because although I had everything set up correctly and could choose a polar file etc. it always refused to load.

I then deleted everything under weather routing in the programs(x86) directory including the WeatherRoutingConfiguration.xml file and solved all the problems.

I think that your example is too complicated. You don't need to provide dozens of examples of routings in a hurricane. Or pre configured routing waypoints etc.. That is just confusing better to have an empty configuration with a good Polar loaded and describe how to create a couple of routing waypoints.

I suggest one simple polar file correctly set up with TWS from 0 to 50 knots loaded as default.

Then a simple set of instructions such as the first part of your wiki entry. with a couple of screen-shots
  1. Have Climatology setup (optional or for advanced use only - you shouldn't encourage people to route short voyages on historical data that could be very dangerous)
  2. Have high resolution coastline configured correctly.
  3. Open a current GRIB.
  4. Right click on the chart, ensuring that you click inside the GRIB area, and create a routing waypoint - call it start.
  5. Right click on the chart, ensuring that you click inside the GRIB area and create a routing waypoint - call it end. (note: the distance between this mark and the start should be small enough that you can complete the voyage within the time range of the loaded GRIB)
  6. Create a new route configuration from start to end waypoints
  7. Set a start time - within the GRIB time range.
  8. Close the configuration dialogue
  9. click Compute

PS. I discovered that under the "Settings" dialogue I can turn off the underlying set of wind barbs . I found it very confusing (well hard on the eyes) to have two sets of wind arrows (they should not be called barbs; they are arrows with barbs (the tip of arrow is barbed) the wind strength indicators on the tail are fletchings (the feathers on an arrow)), rant over I think that the check-box in settings for "wind barbs" should be turned off by default. Stepping through the GRIB to check the route is then easier or at least what is happening is easier to see.

PPS. Routing around a boundary does not seem to work. At least not for me. I have only tried to route around a boundary circle so far but routing completely ignores it. I envisage setting a boundary circle on a headland or an island to ensure that routing gives the said piece of hard stuff a suitable wide berth.
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Old 18-11-2017, 14:37   #12
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Another question and a suggestion:

What is the yellow line on the attached polar plot?

Suggestion: When viewing the plot of the route it is possible to select either the current route or the route to the cursor position. When cursor position is selected the y scale continuously rescales which makes comparing routes very difficult visually. If the Y scale was fixed and you were viewing say AWA it would be very easy to see as you moved the cursor where you were sailing closer or deeper but with the axis always changing seeing any change is very difficult. Especially as per my previous posting on this the labels on the y-scale are mostly meaningless.
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Old 18-11-2017, 16:53   #13
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Thankyou Moo. We agree, it should be simplified with one example.

Wish you would download the version I have provided it is different. There are some improvements needed from did-g.

The yellow line in oolar files is the sail crossover line. We need to get crossover diagram working too.

More later. Will read your reporting & ideas more closely too.
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Old 18-11-2017, 18:03   #14
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Thankyou Moo. We agree, it should be simplified with one example.

Wish you would download the version I have provided it is different. There are some improvements needed from did-g.

The yellow line in oolar files is the sail crossover line. We need to get crossover diagram working too.

More later. Will read your reporting & ideas more closely too.
I tried downloading the version you linked. I tried downloading the windows setup but that didn't install the configuration xml file so I had to download the setup separately and copy the configuration file manually.

What version should the new version report. I get v1.10 which is what I had before.

In any case none of the examples will complete. I can't see anything wrong. Now hopefully I can get back to my working configuration
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Old 19-11-2017, 02:50   #15
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Re: Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody?

Moo,
Sorry, but the version of the plugin on the main download page does not work properly. The link I gave you is a windows compilation of the version that does work properly fixed by TransmitterDan, see https://github.com/seandepagnier/wea...0fe0485c8f3030

You can do what you want, but I can't help you then.
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