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Old 28-12-2016, 02:39   #16
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Hello Sean D'Epagnier,

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
....

It is only displaying the waypoints in selected routes.
....
Ok, I've never tried to create multiple routing with different start and end points. I just understood from reading your answer that what I thought was a small display bug is therefore a voluntary effect on your part.

Perhaps it would be good that:
- each point created appears on the screen, with an icon specific to WR, black.
- As currently, the start and end points of a selected route appear in green and red.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 02:56   #17
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Hello Sean D'Epagnier,

I prefer to answer with several posts because the problems are of very different nature and the one that I approached here is essential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
....
The polar failed almost always means that the polar doesn't define a boat speed in the conditions. You will see from the speed plot, or from editing the polar that the alberg35 polar doesn't define boat speed above 20 knots of wind.

Above this speed, the program doesn't know how fast the boat can sail, so it simply doesn't route.
.....
And I also understood that WR stops, without building the route to the desired end point, because the information contained in the polars does not allow him to decide how to make the route to after this point .... This is not a mistake due to the polar. It's a choice on your part ... Why not ...

But in this case, you should not display "Polar: Failed". Because it's not a mistake! By choosing to display "Polar: Failed", you generate a negative perception of WR by users.
And as you see, I believed in a WR bug. And I'm certainly not the only one with that kind of reaction.
You choose to say that WR does not continue. But you have to say it "positively".

That said, it is not serious. Competitive software is able to provide a route to the desired endpoint. Obviously, they certainly are not honest because they certainly do not say how they do it.

I think OpenCPN users are certainly waiting for a complete route weather. I think you have to try to extend the route weather by extrapolating the polar. And probably will have to tell you "honestly" to the users, that you do not guarantee the result.

B.R. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 03:42   #18
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Hello Sean d'Epagnier,

Sorry to disturb you again.

Same points as yesterday. The departure to the south of Brittany, in France. The arrival to the south west of the Anglnd in the Channel. I used the grib file loaded last night, taking the current time. Always with the Halberg-Rassy 35 polar provided by WR during installation.

There does not seem to be too much wind and therefore I did not expect an error due to the polar. Apparently, it seems to me that WR was not able to detect the ground. And as the navigation was to be done, about downwind, there would be no reason to come up against the ground.

Can you explain this result? And why the error announced is "Polar: failed"?

Thank you. (Here join the grib file, (put out ".doc")).

B.R. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 03:49   #19
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Btw. Sailgrib can run with RemixOS on any PC. It's a great piece of software for a very reasonable price.
Still it doesn't allow direct use of CM93 which is where OCPN excells.

Still, Sean we do appreciate your hard work to get WR fully working in O!!!

Thank you!!
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Old 28-12-2016, 04:31   #20
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

In the list of software which are able to realize weather-road, I forgot ScanNav.
it is a software of mapping marine, very complete, under windows, proposes a marine cartography raster as vector and which has, a routing module (new).
That said, it is not free.

Mais, ne l'ayant pas testé, je ne sais dire ce qu'il faut en penser. Par contre, je sais que ceux qui l'utilisent en sont satisfait.
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Old 28-12-2016, 05:54   #21
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
Hello Sean D'Epagnier,

You choose to say that WR does not continue. But you have to say it "positively".
Any suggestions for alternatives to "Polar Failed!" ?

"The route could not be completed as configured" ?!!?
"The polars do not describe useful wind speeds" ???

Any really long message is going to not fit in the grid.

Quote:
That said, it is not serious. Competitive software is able to provide a route to the desired endpoint. Obviously, they certainly are not honest because they certainly do not say how they do it.
Does their polar have more data in it for higher wind speeds?

Quote:
I think OpenCPN users are certainly waiting for a complete route weather. I think you have to try to extend the route weather by extrapolating the polar. And probably will have to tell you "honestly" to the users, that you do not guarantee the result.

B.R. Gilletarom.
In earlier versions of the plugin I "generated" polars using the sailboat transform, and it was simply inaccurate in actual conditions so I remove this feature. It is better to fail and not work than to give unrealistic results.

I don't know how to properly "extrapolate" polars to higher wind speeds because the actual tactics in heavy weather differ considerably depending on the sailor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Btw. Sailgrib can run with RemixOS on any PC. It's a great piece of software for a very reasonable price.
Still it doesn't allow direct use of CM93 which is where OCPN excells.

Still, Sean we do appreciate your hard work to get WR fully working in O!!!

Thank you!!
Maybe you could explain how the weather routing plugin could be improved so that sailgrib isn't any better. Can you compare actual routings? I have never used sailgrib.
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Old 28-12-2016, 06:17   #22
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
Hello Sean d'Epagnier,

Sorry to disturb you again.

Same points as yesterday. The departure to the south of Brittany, in France. The arrival to the south west of the Anglnd in the Channel. I used the grib file loaded last night, taking the current time. Always with the Halberg-Rassy 35 polar provided by WR during installation.
What exact filename? I don't have a Halberg-Rassy 35 polar, so where did this come from?

Quote:

There does not seem to be too much wind and therefore I did not expect an error due to the polar. Apparently, it seems to me that WR was not able to detect the ground. And as the navigation was to be done, about downwind, there would be no reason to come up against the ground.
I tried your polar and it does exceed 20 knots in places. Can you use a different boat like boat_A35?

Would it help to move all the "incomplete" polars to an incomplete directory so users most likely try the few polars which do define speeds up to 60 knots of wind?
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:26   #23
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
....

Would it help to move all the "incomplete" polars to an incomplete directory so users most likely try the few polars which do define speeds up to 60 knots of wind?
Why not. But will there remain many polars really usable?

That said, I started again by creating two weather-road, using the same grib file that I use previously.
See screen copy. The first, in green on the screenshot with the A35, is complete Ok. The second, in blue, with the Alberg35, is "polar : failed".

Each of these two polars have information for 6knots but not for less than 6 knots of wind.

I looked at what force of wind there was to be at the end of the blue road. Unless I'm mistaken, less than 10 knots. Can be even less than 6 knots. This could explain why the Alberg35 polar does not allow to continue.

Can you confirm that it is not because the boat stumbles on the ground, but because the polar does not have enough data for the low wind speeds, that WR does not know how to continue further?

B.R. Gilletarom
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Old 28-12-2016, 11:17   #24
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Good evening Sean d'Epagnier,

Yes, here, it is night. So good evening. But I guess it's day for you.

So I try the A35 polar. And, yes, with this polar, no problem.

But, why, with the Alberg35 polar, WR do not run corectly, even if the wind is not more than 20 knots?

I have create many meteo-route. For example, I try to place some limit. If I check the checkbox "Detect boundary", all is Ok. The meteo-route do not go through the boundary.

Question: There is also a checkbox "Inverted regions". I try to check it. Nothing occur.
What is an inverted regions? What happens if I check this checkbox?

Problem :
I try to compile two meteo-route simultaneously. One with the A35 polar, one with the Alber35 polar. And, OCPN blocked. So it was necessary that I shutdown OCPN by force.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 15:32   #25
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Sean d'Epagnier,

I understood enough things and carried out enough tests to be able to realize a first update of the essential page, concerning WR, in the tutorial website, opencpnshoreline.

It's done here:
Http://opencpn.shoreline.fr/4_Plus_l...htm#Role_de_MR

That said, I did not fully demonstrate the role:
- barriers,
- prohibited areas,
- "inverted" regions ---> (?)

And I expect you to tell me more about the anomalies identified by using the Alberg35 polar, so that I can tell the users the qualities that must be included in the data included in the polars.

In addition, I have set up an alert in the tracker. This alert applies to the language file.
Http://opencpn.willkamp.com/index.ph...r=id&sort=desc

I will put another alert in the tracker tomorrow concerning some details of presentation that need to be improved.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 16:22   #26
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Hello Sean d'Epagnier,

1° An other test with polar :failed.

I use the polar A35. I place 2 points, one on the south of Jersey, one on the north of Jersey, in the channel. See screen copy.

I create the caracteristic of a meteo-route and then I try to compile it. It failed.

Can you explain ?

2° A bug :
I delete the two points that I have placed on south and north of Jersey. Then I use the button "Configuration" and then I select the meteo-route that I speak previously. I open it with "Edit". And I see that the two points are present in this meteo-route ....
Not good.

It seem that if a point is used in a meteo-route, then, it is impossible to delete it. Why not. This is not bad.
But if we try to delete this point, it desappear on left in the columm "Position".
But if we shutdown WR or OCPN, when we run OCPN and WR, the point is still present.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:30   #27
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Miyga exe
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:42   #28
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

@Miyagimoon. I am quite busy right now or I would help you work through this problem. I have been using wx-routing for a very long time, and more often than not the problem is the polar file, the setting of start time, or the values selected.
As configured wx-route works out of the box. Perhaps it would be helpful if we had a reset that would put the plugin back to that state, but we do not have that feature yet.

If you were to provide me with a working grib file and a properly formatted polar file, I will show you how the pluggin works.
Alternatively, show us the screen settings and what you have done. With a little specific detail we can help you.

I can assure you it does work.
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Old 29-12-2016, 04:49   #29
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

hello Sean d'Epagnier,

This morning, I try another. So I create two new points and use A35 polar file, with the grib that I download yesterday late.

I have "No data : failed".

Can you said me what kind of data is not présent ?

Thank by advance.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 29-12-2016, 04:59   #30
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Re: Weather Routing Plug In - Does it Actually Work

Gille what setting for start? The start time needs to be within the grib start and end.
Also what versions of O and wx-route please?
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