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Old 18-06-2014, 04:51   #1
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Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Hi I am new to the forum so not entirely sure if this has been covered but I am pretty sure OpenCPN does not work well in this respect.

There are many Garmin GPS user that are able to use the full functionality of OpenCPN due to the Waypoint upload functions. I was always lead to believe that it was because Garmin used their own formats however, I loaded an old copy of MaxSea, where it does work, along side my OpenCPN to see what I could work out.

I used VSPE to share the same connections so everything is the same for both. MaxSea uploads individual waypoints, not routes, to a Garmin 128 using standard NMEA183 settings on the GPS (This also works with 128,152 an 162 units and I suspect may others). OpenCPN however fails to do so even when set to GRMN - GRMN mode, which I feel is an unnecessary complication given that MaxSea works without this. The same goes for using GPSUtils (GPX files transfers) all very good but we shouldn't need to do this.

Using the "Extra Information" window in VSPE to interrogate the outgoing NMEA sentences. I set up a series of 3 waypoints and 5 waypoints all identical (within 4 decimal places of the position). I also did a series of 6 WP's (MaxSea only) to show what happens when there are an even number of waypoints when I discovered how MS constructed the RTE messages.

I got the following results.

TEST 1 - Series of 3 waypoints.
From MaxSea
$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22.. (this is boat location not wp)
$GPWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*28..
$GPWPL,0539.583,N,10820.391,E,WPT2*2B..
$GPWPL,0415.526,N,10654.258,E,WPT3*23..
$GPRTE,2,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*35..
$GPRTE,2,2,c,,WPT2,WPT3*36..

From OpenCPN - Waypoint names changed before uploading for consistency.
$ECWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*39..
$ECWPL,0539.583,N,10820.390,E,WPT2*3B..
$ECWPL,0415.526,N,10654.257,E,WPT3*3D..
$ECRTE,1,1,c,1,WPT1,WPT2,WPT3*58..

TEST 2 - Series of 5 waypoints
From MaxSea
$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22.. (this is boat location not wp)
$GPWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*28..
$GPWPL,0539.583,N,10820.391,E,WPT2*2B..
$GPWPL,0415.526,N,10654.258,E,WPT3*23..
$GPWPL,0416.392,N,11155.977,E,WPT4*2F..
$GPWPL,0916.795,N,11158.671,E,WPT5*24..
$GPRTE,3,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*34..
$GPRTE,3,2,c,,WPT2,WPT3*37..
$GPRTE,3,3,c,,WPT4,WPT5*36..

From opencpn
$ECWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*39..
$ECWPL,0539.583,N,10820.390,E,WPT2*3B..
$ECWPL,0415.526,N,10654.257,E,WPT3*3D..
$ECWPL,0416.392,N,11155.977,E,WPT4*3E..
$ECWPL,0916.795,N,11158.671,E,WPT5*35..
$ECRTE,1,1,c,1,WPT1,WPT2,WPT3,WPT4,WPT5*59..

Test 3 - Series of 6 waypoints
From MaxSea
$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22.. (this is boat location not wp)
$GPWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*28..
$GPWPL,0539.583,N,10820.391,E,WPT2*2B..
$GPWPL,0415.526,N,10654.258,E,WPT3*23..
$GPWPL,0416.392,N,11155.977,E,WPT4*2F..
$GPWPL,0916.795,N,11158.671,E,WPT5*24..
$GPWPL,0324.664,N,12017.578,E,WPT6*20..
$GPRTE,4,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*33..
$GPRTE,4,2,c,,WPT2,WPT3*30..
$GPRTE,4,3,c,,WPT4,WPT5*31..
$GPRTE,4,4,c,,WPT6*7E..

Summary
I identified the following differences.

1. $EC in OPC instead of $GP in MS

2. MS includes the WP for the current location of the boat as WPT0 whereas OPC starts at the first WP

3. MS breaks down the each series of WP's into a list of RTE sentences containing 2 WP's each instead of OPC that combines everything into 1 RTE message. If there is an odd number of WP's (including WPT0) then the last RTE message contains only 1 WP. The second data field indicates the number of RTE messages that are generated.

Is there anyway that changes could be made to cover this?. I am happy to help with any testing, although my programming skills are a little rusty.

Hope someone can pick this up.

Peter
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Old 18-06-2014, 20:06   #2
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Peter...

OK, lets dig into this.

1. What Version of OpenCPN are you testing?
2. What platform (Windows, linux, mac?)

3. On OCPN, do the waypoints get uploaded?
4. Does the completed route get uploaded?

5. Are you using standard NMEA mode?

At first look, the talker identifier "EC" instead of "GP" makes no difference. Very few devices decode or care about this field.

Next, the sentence you show coming from the OCPN to Garmin looks legitimate to me.

Garmin GPS is very common, and we do not get a lot of bug reports on this. So we need more detail on your situation.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 19-06-2014, 01:07   #3
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
Peter...
OK, lets dig into this.
Thanks I appreciate any help you can give.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
1. What Version of OpenCPN are you testing?
Ver 3.2.2
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
2. What platform (Windows, linux, mac?)
Win XP sp 3. I have also tried it on Win7 but have to use a USB - Serial converter and cannot use VSPE to check the output.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
3. On OCPN, do the waypoints get uploaded?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
4. Does the completed route get uploaded?
No. It does not upload the route in MaxSea either, just the waypoints. This was recognised as a problem with MaxSea and Garmin interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
5. Are you using standard NMEA mode?
Yes. GPS is set to NMEA / NMEA, NMEA 183 2.0, 4800. This etting works when uploading WPs from MaxSea and Yeoman(see below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
At first look, the talker identifier "EC" instead of "GP" makes no difference. Very few devices decode or care about this field.
Agree can't see this making a big difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
Next, the sentence you show coming from the OCPN to Garmin looks legitimate to me.
Again I would agree, but I was surprised to see how MaxSea broke the RTE sentences down. It maybe this is why Garmin has a problem getting Routes from MaxSea but not the WP's
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
Garmin GPS is very common, and we do not get a lot of bug reports on this. So we need more detail on your situation.
My setup is as follows.
VIA 12v PC - Win XP, sp 3, two real RS232 Ports, one for AIS 34800 and one for everything else 4800
Raymarine Instruments ST 60 & 60+ seatalk output is converted to NMEA via Raymarine converter.
Raymarine ST5000 AP - accepts GOTO from GPS without any change in settings.
Raymarine Radar (Old 2KW) receives wp's and seatalk data.
Garmin 128 - PC side of RM converter so connects to PC even when instruments are off.
Yeoman Plotter - PC side of RM converter - usually switched off but either way does not appear to change anything. WP's can be uploaded directly to the GPS with standard NMEA / NMEA setup without problem.
DSC radio gets its GPS fix from the Garmin
ICS Nav 6 also repeats all NMEA data.
MaxSea uploads WP's to GPS with standard NMEA / NMEA setup without problem.
OpenCPN - does not upload wp's in NMEA / NMEA mode, or Routes / WP's in GRMN / GRMN mode.
TESTS were done with all non essential equipment turned of but with VSPE splitting the com port so I could read the data.
Cheers
Peter
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Old 19-06-2014, 07:19   #4
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Have you tried uploading from OpenCPN with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" unselected and your GPS set to NMEA? It sounds like that is how you have things set for MaxSea.

Fabbian
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Old 19-06-2014, 10:58   #5
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

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Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
Have you tried uploading from OpenCPN with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" unselected and your GPS set to NMEA? It sounds like that is how you have things set for MaxSea.

Fabbian
Yes have tried this. With GRMN / GRMN or NMEA / NMEA no WP's are uploaded.

MaxSea will upload WP's only but not routes if set to NMEA / NMEA mode.
MaxSea says it cannot upload routes but manages to upload WP's by breaking the RTE messages into 1 or 2 WP clusters. It would be great if OpenCPN could do this as most times WP's uploads are all that is necessary.
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Old 20-06-2014, 00:31   #6
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

WinXP SP3, OpenCPN 3.2.2, Garmin GPSMAP 4010.

NMEA 0183 wiring as per the Garmin installation guide.

Using NMEA/NMEA 0183 @9600 I can upload waypoints to the Garmin - OpenCPN with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" unselected.

Gave up on getting routes into the Garmin direct from OpenCPN.

Workaround was to export the GPX file and open with EasyGPS. Using a Garmin GPSMAP 76 connection it is possible to upload both waypoints and the route into the Garmin 4010. (EasyGPS 5.07 does not have a GPSMAP 4010 option)

If you need any testing please shout.

Mike
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Old 20-06-2014, 07:59   #7
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Tupaia,

OpenCPN uploads routes to my Garmin GPS 72 just fine with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" selected and the GPS set to GRMN/GRMN. I have to remember to switch it back to NMEA mode when I connect it to my SeaTalk network so the autopilot and speed instrument can see its data. I also have a GPS 12 to which I have uploaded routes from OpenCP without difficulty.

I couldn't find a manual online for the GPS 128. What does it say about uploading routes from another device?

Have you tried uploading waypoints instead of routes? Anything different?


Rasbats,

Do I understand you correctly that you can upload waypoints to your GPSMAP 4010 direct from OpenCPN using NMEA interface but you cannot upload routes direct from OpenCPN using either MNEA or GRMN interface?

Fabbian
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Old 20-06-2014, 08:20   #8
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasbats View Post
WinXP SP3, OpenCPN 3.2.2, Garmin GPSMAP 4010.

NMEA 0183 wiring as per the Garmin installation guide.

Using NMEA/NMEA 0183 @9600 I can upload waypoints to the Garmin - OpenCPN with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" unselected.

Gave up on getting routes into the Garmin direct from OpenCPN.

Workaround was to export the GPX file and open with EasyGPS. Using a Garmin GPSMAP 76 connection it is possible to upload both waypoints and the route into the Garmin 4010. (EasyGPS 5.07 does not have a GPSMAP 4010 option)

If you need any testing please shout.

Mike
This is is not a baud rate issue, I am sure it is just down to the way RTE messages are constructed.

I am not trying to upload routes just the waypoints a la MaxSea. The work around using GPX is a poor substitute when compared to the slick transfer in MaxSea.
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Old 20-06-2014, 12:07   #9
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Fabbian,

Correct ... I can upload waypoints to the GPSMAP 4010 direct from OpenCPN using the NMEA interface. Routes cannot be uploaded direct from OpenCPN using either the NMEA or GRMN interface.

Mike
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Old 20-06-2014, 15:34   #10
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
Tupaia,

OpenCPN uploads routes to my Garmin GPS 72 just fine with "Use Garmin GRMN (Host) mode for uploads" selected and the GPS set to GRMN/GRMN. I have to remember to switch it back to NMEA mode when I connect it to my SeaTalk network so the autopilot and speed instrument can see its data. I also have a GPS 12 to which I have uploaded routes from OpenCP without difficulty.

I couldn't find a manual online for the GPS 128. What does it say about uploading routes from another device?

Have you tried uploading waypoints instead of routes? Anything different?

Fabbian
Hi Fabian in answer to your questions.

Switching to GRMN / GRMN does not seem to work with 128, it also causes all the other connected instruments, DSC radio, Yeoman Plotter and ICS Nav 6, using the GPS feed to alarm.

Yes. - Uploading from another device is not a problem from MaxSea or the Yeoman Plotter, only OpenCPN has the problem.

Here are the NMEA messages that are sent for the 4 scenarios.
GPS set to NMEA / NMEA, NMEA 183 2.0, 4800

MaxSea - Select upload waypoints
Waypoints uploaded - YES

$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22..
$GPWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*28..
$GPWPL,0539.583,N,10820.391,E,WPT2*2B..
$GPWPL,0415.526,N,10654.258,E,WPT3*23..
$GPRTE,2,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*35..
$GPRTE,2,2,c,,WPT2,WPT3*36..

MaxSea - Select upload route
Waypoints uploaded - YES / Route uploaded - NO

$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22..
$GPWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*28..
$GPWPL,0539.583,N,10820.391,E,WPT2*2B..
$GPWPL,0415.526,N,10654.258,E,WPT3*23..
$GPRTE,2,1,c,1,WPT0,WPT1*35..
$GPRTE,2,2,c,1,WPT2,WPT3*36..

OpenCPN - Select upload route to GPS
Waypoints uploaded - NO / Route uploaded - NO

$ECWPL,0654.713,N,10650.742,E,WPT1*39..
$ECWPL,0539.583,N,10820.390,E,WPT2*3B..
$ECWPL,0415.526,N,10654.257,E,WPT3*3D..
$ECRTE,1,1,c,1,WPT1,WPT2,WPT3*58..

OpenCPN - Select upload waypoint to GPS - This is not really a useful option as the relationship between WP's, distances, route management etc. are not available within OpenCPN.
Waypoints uploaded - NO / Route uploaded - NO

$ECWPL,0633.158,N,10431.484,E,007*68..


All the above sentences appear to be completely valid. The only difference between the two MaxSea outputs is the Route number "1" in red compared to blank. Both upload the waypoints correctly.

OpenCPN has a different message structure that again appears to be valid but does not upload anything to the GPS.

Peter
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Old 20-06-2014, 20:54   #11
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Peter....

To simplify, all in NMEA mode:

Are you finding that
Code:
$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22..
from Maxsea will upload a single waypoint, and that

Code:
$ECWPL,0633.158,N,10431.484,E,007*68..
from OCPN will not?

I do not understand why when uploading waypoints from Maxsea, the $GPRTE sentences are sent.

Can you upload a single waypoint from Maxsea? What is the message stream in this case?

Dave
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Old 21-06-2014, 02:52   #12
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
Peter....

To simplify, all in NMEA mode:

Are you finding that
Code:
$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.091,E,WPT0*22..
from Maxsea will upload a single waypoint, and that

Code:
$ECWPL,0633.158,N,10431.484,E,007*68..
from OCPN will not?

I do not understand why when uploading waypoints from Maxsea, the $GPRTE sentences are sent.

Can you upload a single waypoint from Maxsea? What is the message stream in this case?

Dave
Hi Dave,

In answer to your question neither of the above messages will upload to the GPS. MaxSea always sends the RTE so I can't be sure as it does not seem to be possible to send a single WP from MaxSea, see below.

Using MaxSea all set to NMEA mode

1. If you upload a single WP (you can only do this by starting a planning route) the result is this.

$GPWPL,0352.732,N,11023.438,E,WPT0*24..
$GPRTE,1,1,c,,WPT0*78..

Nothing gets uploaded to the GPS

2. If you create a planning route with 2 WP's and upload them then the result is this

$GPWPL,0352.732,N,11023.438,E,WPT0*24..
$GPWPL,0806.164,S,10118.516,E,WPT1*32..
$GPRTE,1,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*36..

Only WPT1 ends up getting to the GPS and it completely ignores WPT0

3. If you create an active route or convert a planning route to an active one, the vessel position is included as WPT0 and the result is this.

$GPWPL,0412.661,N,10036.094,E,WPT0*27..
$GPWPL,0352.732,N,11023.438,E,WPT1*25..
$GPWPL,0806.164,S,10118.516,E,WPT2*31..
$GPRTE,2,1,c,,WPT0,WPT1*35..
$GPRTE,2,2,c,,WPT2*7A..

WP's WPT1 and WPT2 are correctly uploaded to the GPS and the vessel position WPT0 is ignored.

Hope this helps

Peter
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Old 27-06-2014, 12:22   #13
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

I have played around with a Garmin 128 ( and a Garmin 12XL) lately.
I experienced pretty much the same as "Tupaia". No matter what settings i tried, was it possible to upload wpts or routes to the Garmin.
So I ended up using a lot of wpts programed in to the 128 and "Goto".
Funny enough these "goto" wpts became visible in O as I had the "Treat the WPL sentences as APRS position reports" activated. I never tried a full Garmin route. No point as the winds were doing at least one 360/day.

// Thomas
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Old 27-06-2014, 18:13   #14
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

Quote:
Originally Posted by cagney View Post
I have played around with a Garmin 128 ( and a Garmin 12XL) lately.
I experienced pretty much the same as "Tupaia". No matter what settings i tried, was it possible to upload wpts or routes to the Garmin.
So I ended up using a lot of wpts programed in to the 128 and "Goto".
Funny enough these "goto" wpts became visible in O as I had the "Treat the WPL sentences as APRS position reports" activated. I never tried a full Garmin route. No point as the winds were doing at least one 360/day.

// Thomas
Unfortunately away from the boat for a while so can't get too specific , but I've had OpenCpn uploading routes to a 128 before, it shows up on the garmin as a set of way points, not a route. Using grm/grm on the 128 and the tick box on in settings in OpenCPN. I do remember it being a fiddle to get working, might have been because of the cheap prolific usb/serial adaptor, a ftdi really is worth spending the extra money on.
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Old 27-06-2014, 20:11   #15
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Re: Waypoints Uploads OpenCPN to Garmin

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Unfortunately away from the boat for a while so can't get too specific , but I've had OpenCpn uploading routes to a 128 before, it shows up on the garmin as a set of way points, not a route. Using grm/grm on the 128 and the tick box on in settings in OpenCPN. I do remember it being a fiddle to get working, might have been because of the cheap prolific usb/serial adaptor, a ftdi really is worth spending the extra money on.
My set uses a physical rs232 serial port so nothing to do with your USB converter.

I think I have identified the sentence protocol that works from that used by MaxSea. I agree that it is not particularly logical but opencpn should be able to replicate it.
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