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Old 06-08-2012, 05:02   #1
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Waypoints Disappearing

I have an issue where I have added a number of waypoints to opencpn, and have used them, and then they seem to "disappear". Many waypoints however are displayed correctly and there is no issue.

The waypoint is listed in the Router Manager tab, and is marked as shown on chart, but the waypoint does not display. I can even do "Zoom To" and it shows the area of the chart where the waypoint should be, but it's not displayed.

I also have waypoints that are in the navobj.xml file, that do not show in the Route Manager.

I first saw this happen on 2.5 (WinXP), now I am on 3.02 (Win7) and the same behavior is there. I would guess something is "corrupt" with my navobj.xml file but I don't know what the issue is. I copied the navobj.xml file from my 2.5 install to my 3.02 install, so it's the same file.

I am not sure how to make available my navobj.xml as it is 7megs and cannot upload it onto this site.

A few waypoints to look at:
In Router Manager: Cholon1, Cholon2, Cholon3, Cholon4

There are many others also, these are just a few examples.

A waypoint in navobj.xml but NOT in Route Manager:
Boca Grande Entrance

Any help would be appreciated as the fact I am "losing" waypoint is extremely frustrating.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:01   #2
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Mark...

Well, we need to look at navobj, but 7MB is a bit much.

Can you save your navobj somewhere safe, delete the original, and start from scratch? Try to create the phenomenon with just a few points. Then upload that new, smaller navobj.xml for inspection.

Or maybe the problem does not occur with just a small navobj file?

Thanks
Dave
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:09   #3
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Some more information.

It seems that the points that used to be in the xml file as a waypoint (wpt), are no longer there as a waypoint, only as a point in a route (rtept).

So, the waypoint, Cholon1, which I created as a "Mark", and then used in a Route, is no longer listed in the XML file as an independent wpt, only as a point in the route (rtept).

So, what determines if a "point" is displayed in the Route Manager Waypoint tab? I assumed it was that a point was manually created. If a point is created building out a route, I assume this point is not considered a "Waypoint", but just a point in the route. I would also assume that creating a Mark/Waypoint has to add a <wpt> item to the xml file and this is what is used by Route Manager to display Waypoints. If this is the case, how is the Route Manager showing a "Waypoint" that does not have a <wpt> entry, only a <rtept>?

If I try to EXPORT GPX for the Cholon1 Waypoint, the GPX file is empty besides the XML header information.......?

How are "Waypoints" re-used as points in a route? Are the listed 2x in the xml file, or only 1 time with a reference from the rtept to the wpt?

Can someone clarify this for me?

It seems my "Waypoints" are still present, but they are now ONLY part of a route, not an independent item. So, the only way to get the waypoint to show is to display the entire route, which I don't think is correct behavior.

Thanks.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:19   #4
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

I deleted all the Tracks from the navobj.xml file, now its only 700k. This is the first time I look in-depth into these files so was unaware that most of the data was track information.

Still unable to upload here, but if I can email to someone let me know and I am happy to do so.
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:00   #5
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

the upload limit is pretty small- 400kb.

I tried this as I understand your problem (Marks disappearing when incorporated into routes) but it's not happening to me.... I am making routes using "Marks" by agreeing to the dialogue "Use nearby Waypoint?" that pops up but even if I don't agree, it works fine. I can still see the marks and they are still listed....
Maybe the default icon for marks is to blame. Try changing these to other larger brighter icons? Or are these homemade icons with a problem with the icons' transparency....?
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:12   #6
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
the upload limit is pretty small- 400kb.

I tried this as I understand your problem (Marks disappearing when incorporated into routes) but it's not happening to me.... I am making routes using "Marks" by agreeing to the dialogue "Use nearby Waypoint?" that pops up but even if I don't agree, it works fine. I can still see the marks and they are still listed....
Maybe the default icon for marks is to blame. Try changing these to other larger brighter icons? Or are these homemade icons with a problem with the icons' transparency....?
Just using the standard default icons for most marks, the triangle.

At some point all seemed to be OK, so it seems maybe the file must of gotten corrupt somehow, but did not notice it since the Route Manager was still displaying everything OK.

Also, if I run a test now, yes, it works OK for me to. It was something that happened over a period of time, then I went back to use some Marks I had created and I couldnt find them...... But, if I show a route that uses the Marks, they show up.

Should every "mark" (rtept) in a route, also be a separate <wpt> element in the navobj file? Or are items only <wpt> if they are created as a Mark.

Since I have the marks in the file, as <rtept>, if I copy the contents back to a <wpt> cell also will this sort out my issue?

I guess I need to know a bit about how the file is created so I can try to patch it back together correctly as there are a lot of marks that have this issue. Fun fun.
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:08   #7
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Excuse me but I just have to say it LOL my pencil marks on my paper charts never go away LOL sorry but I just could not help myself LOL ( Connies in the middle of working this program onto her laptop!!so it's just a joke)
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Old 06-08-2012, 10:26   #8
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

OK. I seem to be able to reproduce the issue. Here are the steps.

Remove the .doc extension on the attached files as it was the only way to upload them.

1) Clear out all Marks,Tracks, Routes, Layers. Everything empty.
2) Right Click, Drop Mark Here. Rename to "Mark1".
3) Move over a bit, Right Click, Drop Mark Here. Rename to "Mark2".
4) Close OpenCPN.
5) See attached navobj1.xml.doc
6) Start OpenCPN.
7) Click on Route button in toolbar.
8) Click Mark1, say Yes to use nearby.
9) Click Mark2, say Yes to use nearby.
10) Click somewhere else to create a third mark in the route.
11) Press esc to stop the route creation.
12) Close OpenCPM.
13) See attached navobj2.xml.doc (notice there are no <wpt> objects).
14) Start OpenCPN.
15) Open Route Manager.
16) Note, 1 Route, 2 Waypoints.
17) Click on the eye next to the route to "hide" it.
18) All the marks are gone off the screen, including the waypoints that were created independently of the route.

This seems to be an issue, as the waypoints I would think should stay independently of the visibility of the route.

But maybe I am just missing something about how OpenCPN works...
Attached Files
File Type: doc navobj1.xml.doc (1.2 KB, 37 views)
File Type: doc navobj2.xml.doc (2.1 KB, 38 views)
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:19   #9
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

For sending large files to us developers I can recommend Sprend
You can send files up to 2GB to a single receiver for free.
Just send it to Dave's email.
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:27   #10
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

aha! I get ya now! That is indeed what happens following your process and it is a trifle odd! Those Marks are lost as such unless the route is visible, even though they appear ok in the route manager. I wonder if the ghost of this wasn't pointed out in a post by surveyor here:OpenCPN Beta Version 3.1.802 Released

Kiltym, by the way, are you using version 3.0 or a beta...I'm using beta 3.1.802
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:35   #11
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobconnie View Post
Excuse me but I just have to say it LOL my pencil marks on my paper charts never go away LOL sorry but I just could not help myself LOL ( Connies in the middle of working this program onto her laptop!!so it's just a joke)
and neither do the diesel oil ,ash, soot and eraser smudges on my old charts...being of the Scottish persuasion, I would just heave to or sail around smudges , rather than buy a new chart...

anyways, No Fear. Just back up those important Marks and such by using the Export feature.and these can easily be reloaded as required using Import.. I backup marks,routes,tracks at the earliest opportunity-it's a modern-type computer chore.
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Old 06-08-2012, 14:47   #12
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
Kiltym, by the way, are you using version 3.0 or a beta...I'm using beta 3.1.802
I am on 3.0.2.

However, this happened to me when running 2.5 as well.

If you need anything else from me let me know.

I am surprised that has taken a long time to find as it seems like an activity that is very "normal" in my use of OpenCPN. And I don't remember it being a problem when I first started using 2.5, but I can't remember 100% all the details as it was months ago when I first saw this issue.
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Old 06-08-2012, 14:54   #13
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySeagull View Post
aha! I get ya now! That is indeed what happens following your process and it is a trifle odd! Those Marks are lost as such unless the route is visible, even though they appear ok in the route manager. I wonder if the ghost of this wasn't pointed out in a post by surveyor here:OpenCPN Beta Version 3.1.802 Released
With regards to this post, the icons on the Waypoint tab in Route Manager do not ever show visible for me either (but clicking on the blank space does make the waypoint appear and hide on the chart itself, but the icon is always blank in Route Manager). Also on 3.0.2. This is a new install, just getting things set up on a new Win7 computer.
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Old 07-08-2012, 00:23   #14
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiltym View Post
I am surprised that has taken a long time to find as it seems like an activity that is very "normal" in my use of OpenCPN. And I don't remember it being a problem when I first started using 2.5, but I can't remember 100% all the details as it was months ago when I first saw this issue.
I am not - as the waypoints actually don't disappear anywhere and the only "problem" is that they are hidden with the route, I would say that about 50% of the people (including me until now) consider it a feature, not a bug.

Technical background:
Take one step further and delete your testing route - the WPT tags in navobj.xml will be back
There is a bug in this part of the code though, which I will take care of. A waypoint being part of a route can't currently be exported to GPX.

Pavel
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Old 07-08-2012, 02:38   #15
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Re: Waypoints disappearing

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
I am not - as the waypoints actually don't disappear anywhere and the only "problem" is that they are hidden with the route, I would say that about 50% of the people (including me until now) consider it a feature, not a bug.

Technical background:
Take one step further and delete your testing route - the WPT tags in navobj.xml will be back
There is a bug in this part of the code though, which I will take care of. A waypoint being part of a route can't currently be exported to GPX.

Pavel
Thanks for the insight. I was wondering if I was using OpenCPN in a very different manner to others. I often use the same Mark in multiple routes. But if I hide the route that contains the Mark, I can no longer use the same Mark again as it's hidden from the screen.

I guess it will be up to you developers to determine the correct behavior. But any other nav software I have used, a waypoint/mark created independently from a route, should be just that, independent from the route. If the mark is then used in a route, that is A-OK obviously, but the Mark should still behave 100% as an independent object.

I guess I just was not 100% clear if the intentions are to "fix" this, or this is how the development team wants it to work.

The only thing that is still a "mystery" to me, which doesn't really matter too much, is that I would think the Route Manager determines the "Waypoints" to show based on a <wpt> entry in the navobj file. But, in my example, there is no longer any <wpt> items, yet the waypoint still shows in the Route Manager. Again, not really important to me as I do not know how things are coded so I am probably over simplifying, but wanted to make sure everything was taken into consideration when working on the issue.
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