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Old 26-10-2016, 09:57   #1
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Waypoints and Route Points

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Originally Posted by bob423 View Post
Fabbin,

I am aware of the technique of generating the waypoints first and then knitting them together in a route. It certainly is a work around but creating a route on the chart with the Route tool is so much easier and quicker.

...

Your thoughts?
Going back to your first post, (Feature Requests) I don't understand the issue you are concerned with. I create routes with the route tool, clicking to create each route point. When I upload the route to my GPS the GPS creates a waypoint for each route point as well as creating the route. Because of that I edit my route before uploading to assign meaningful names to each route point (BIGB14 instead of 004, for example, for the "14" daybeacon in Big Bayou).

What happens in your chartplotter to routes you upload? Perhaps the waypoints you want are being uploaded but with unrecognizable names because OpenCPN assigns sequential numbers and the GPS adds some kind of route identifier. I know that's what happens with my GPS if I don't assign a name before uploading.

You also asked about extracting a waypoint from a route so an anchorage, for example, would not be deleted with the route in which it was created. Playing around with a test route I discovered that if you remove a waypoint from a route it takes on a life of its own. I haven't found a way to put it back in the route afterward, though, so I think that won't be an acceptable solution.

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Old 26-10-2016, 11:39   #2
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Guys, since you are all making suggestions about Waypoints and Routes, it would be very helpful to have your review of these suggested features, by adding to the comments and/or voting for them. (Identify the ones you'd like to see implemented please.) I'd like to narrow down these many Wpt/Rte Manager feature requests to those that would be really useful/needed and make a single comprehensive list.."
Route Manager Feature Requests (towards the Bottom of page)
Waypoint Feature Requests
I didn't find the Route Manager feature requests. Can you supply FS numbers?

I looked at the Waypoint requests and commented on some. I was blocked from voting for some because it said "already voted today".

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Old 26-10-2016, 16:02   #3
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Thank you Fabbian! I would like to LIFT the LIMIT on Voting. Currently it is just 3 per day, I would like to make it 10-15 per day. I have not figured out how to do that yet.

The way you get Route Manager entries is to Sort on the Titles and scroll down.
That's the easiest way, another way is to define a search with "RM"

Here is the Route Manager RM list OpenCPN::OpenCPN00 Feature Request: Tasklist

Thank you for your thoughtful responses.
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Old 27-10-2016, 01:44   #4
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

While experimenting with the Route Manager I uncovered an annoying bug. In the Waypoints tab when I select a waypoint and click "Properties" the waypoint properties dialog box opens behind the Route Manager box. It should open in front of it. I added a task to the Tracker reporting it.

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Old 27-10-2016, 17:31   #5
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Fabbian, Thank you for your comments and observations on Tracker for WPT and RM.
As a result I think we can summarize the WP Locking and perhaps close several items.
You had some good ideas about RM too.

It would be nice to distill WP and RM down to just what is needed.
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Old 31-10-2016, 14:17   #6
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

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Going back to your first post, (Feature Requests) I don't understand the issue you are concerned with. I create routes with the route tool, clicking to create each route point. When I upload the route to my GPS the GPS creates a waypoint for each route point as well as creating the route. Because of that I edit my route before uploading to assign meaningful names to each route point (BIGB14 instead of 004, for example, for the "14" daybeacon in Big Bayou).

What happens in your chartplotter to routes you upload? Perhaps the waypoints you want are being uploaded but with unrecognizable names because OpenCPN assigns sequential numbers and the GPS adds some kind of route identifier. I know that's what happens with my GPS if I don't assign a name before uploading.

You also asked about extracting a waypoint from a route so an anchorage, for example, would not be deleted with the route in which it was created. Playing around with a test route I discovered that if you remove a waypoint from a route it takes on a life of its own. I haven't found a way to put it back in the route afterward, though, so I think that won't be an acceptable solution.

Fabbian
A route formed by the route tool and uploaded to any chartplotter does indeed form a route. The problem is that I haven't found any chartplotter yet that will allow the waypoints to be edited in a text box. You can move them around manually but not edit the Lat/Long numbers unless the route contains waypoints. The OPENCPN route tool does not produce waypoints, that's the feature beings asked for.
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Old 31-10-2016, 17:01   #7
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

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A route formed by the route tool and uploaded to any chartplotter does indeed form a route. The problem is that I haven't found any chartplotter yet that will allow the waypoints to be edited in a text box. You can move them around manually but not edit the Lat/Long numbers unless the route contains waypoints. The OPENCPN route tool does not produce waypoints, that's the feature beings asked for.
If I create a route in OpenCPN with the route tool and then upload it to my GPS I have both waypoints and routes in my GPS. My GPS, a Garmin GPS72, creates routes by linking waypoints. The GPS72 cannot have a route without waypoints. I can edit the waypoints which make up the routes just as I can edit any other waypoint in the GPS.

What make and model is your chart plotter? How do you create routes with it (not using OpenCPN)? Do you have the same issue with routes created in the chart plotter--no waypoints that can be edited?

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Old 01-11-2016, 19:43   #8
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
Going back to your first post, (Feature Requests) I don't understand the issue you are concerned with. I create routes with the route tool, clicking to create each route point. When I upload the route to my GPS the GPS creates a waypoint for each route point as well as creating the route. Because of that I edit my route before uploading to assign meaningful names to each route point (BIGB14 instead of 004, for example, for the "14" daybeacon in Big Bayou).

What happens in your chartplotter to routes you upload? Perhaps the waypoints you want are being uploaded but with unrecognizable names because OpenCPN assigns sequential numbers and the GPS adds some kind of route identifier. I know that's what happens with my GPS if I don't assign a name before uploading.



Fabbian
[QUOTE=fgd3;2243806]Going back to your first post, (Feature Requests) I don't understand the issue you are concerned with. I create routes with the route tool, clicking to create each route point. When I upload the route to my GPS the GPS creates a waypoint for each route point as well as creating the route. Because of that I edit my route before uploading to assign meaningful names to each route point (BIGB14 instead of 004, for example, for the "14" daybeacon in Big Bayou).

What happens in your chartplotter to routes you upload? Perhaps the waypoints you want are being uploaded but with unrecognizable names because OpenCPN assigns sequential numbers and the GPS adds some kind of route identifier. I know that's what happens with my GPS if I don't assign a name before uploading.

Fabbian, to be specific I need to define the terms as I am using them.
- The routing tool does not create independent waypoints. It creates "turning points" or marks that chartplotters cannot edit in a text box (so Lat/Long cannot be fine tuned manually via the keyboard)
- A waypoint has an independent existence. You can erase a route with such waypoints and the waypoints remain. Also, all chartplotters allow editing of such waypoints in a text box. This permits the Lat/Long to be exactly matched to the Army Corps of Engineers (ACOE) waypoints for a passage through an inlet, a valuable feature.

Now OpenCPN can edit both "turning points" or marks if you prefer as well as independent waypoints with a text box. It's just that chartplotters can't usually edit turning points in a text box unless they have been created as independent waypoints.

The specific feature being requested is to have an option that allows the routing tool to create either "turning points" or waypoints.
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Old 02-11-2016, 18:37   #9
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

We are very lucky that Mike Rasbats has been developing oBabel_pi which works with GPS Babel for conversion of GPS.

This is the thread:oBabel plugin - Exporting KML/GPX to Chartplotters

Here is GPS Babel:
https://www.gpsbabel.org/

It might help with some of these problems.
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Old 10-11-2016, 06:31   #10
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Fabbin,
The chartplotter I'm using is a Garmin492. The Garmin Homeport software for Windows also does not edit route "turning points" in a text box. It does edit waypoints. It would seem a simple thing to have an option of creating editable waypoints instead of "turning point" in a route.
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Old 11-11-2016, 20:11   #11
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

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Originally Posted by bob423 View Post
Fabbin,
The chartplotter I'm using is a Garmin492. The Garmin Homeport software for Windows also does not edit route "turning points" in a text box. It does edit waypoints. It would seem a simple thing to have an option of creating editable waypoints instead of "turning point" in a route.
Thanks. I took a look at the user manual for your chartplotter. It wasn't very clear without a unit to try things but I didn't find any suggestions for a work around.

I looked at your blog and I understand better what you are trying to do. With 50 routes of 5 to 10 waypoints each that's a lot of data entry. How often do you update those waypoints?

Are the COE surveys only available as PDFs? If you could get them in machine readable form you could update existing route files by copying and pasting with a text editor. If I were doing that work I would sure rather update the waypoints on a computer where I had a full keyboard than fiddle with the rocker switches on a chartplotter.

In fact, I keep my routes on my computer. If I modify a route I'll update it on the computer, then clear all the routes and waypoints from my GPS and upload everything from the computer. That's faster than editing more than one or two waypoints on the GPS.

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Old 12-11-2016, 09:44   #12
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Are the COE surveys only available as PDFs?

In fact, I keep my routes on my computer. If I modify a route I'll update it on the computer, then clear all the routes and waypoints from my GPS and upload everything from the computer. That's faster than editing more than one or two waypoints on the GPS.


The ACOE survey routes are only available as PDFs. However I can copy the text waypoints with TextGrabber and convert them into numerics when I need to.

When I do the ACOE routes for the first time, I just use the routing tool in OpenCPN since it is so convenient. The problem is that the ACOE keeps updating the waypoints due to shoaling on the ICW and it's not all the waypoints, just the ones affected by shoaling, usually one or two at a time. The updates can come at any time of the day and if you're headed for an inlet, you had better be sure you have the latest waypoints. Adjusting the Lat/Log manually for a couple of point while underway is most convenient right on the chartplotter - except I can't do that with turning points produced by the routing tool.

I can do what you suggest just by using my laptop (modify the routes, copy to a Garmin data card, insert into GPS492, upload, etc.). But when the waypoints are updated by ACOE while underway in my sailboat, I am under a time constraint. The fastest path is just to change the one or two critical waypoints manually using the GPS chartplotter 492.

Of course I can always use the routing tool and then manually convert all the turning points into editable waypoints. It would be easier if the routing tool had the option of making editable waypoints instead of turning points.

I would envision using the routing tool to form the initial route then:
- place a waypoint near each turning point
- move the route so it passes through the placed waypoints so they are included in the route.
- delete the original routing turning points
- manually edit the waypoints in a text box so the Lat/Long exactly matches the ACOE waypoints through an inlet. (A few feet here matters a lot, just look at Shallotte Inlet by the ICW)

- transfer the route to a Garmin data card
- insert the data card in the 492 and upload

Thanks again for your consideration, Bob
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Old 14-11-2016, 20:05   #13
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Here's a workaround that may solve your problem. It gives you easy steps to edit your GPX file so it will have the waypoints you want. It looks like a lot of steps but its really pretty simple. Create and edit your route in OpenCPN, then export it to a GPX file. Use a text editor to copy the route points in the route and paste them just before the route. Use search and replace to change the route points in the newly pasted text into waypoints.

1. Download Notepad++. It formats GPX files for easy manipulation.
2. Use the route tool in OpenCPN to create your route.
3. Correct the position of each route point as necessary.
4. Using Route Manager in OpenCPN, export the route.
5. Open the exported route with Notepad++.
6. Find the first "<rtept" in the file. You're going to highlight that line all the way to the last line with "</rtept>".
7. Copy the highlighted text (Ctrl-C).
8. Find the first "<rte>" in the file and put your cursor before it.
9. Paste (Ctrl-V) the copied text into that location.
10. Highlight the text you just pasted.
11. Under the "Search" menu choose "Replace" (or just press Ctrl-H).
12. In the "Find what" field put "rtept". In the "Replace with" field put "wpt". Be sure the "In selection" box is checked and click on "Replace All".
13. Save the file.
14. Launch OpenCPN and import the file. You will see your original route has been augmented with waypoint for each route point.

You can import the modified GPX file for editing. The waypoints and route points have the same guid so OpenCPN will know they refer to the same object. If you modify the waypoint the route point will be modified as well. After you modify the waypoints you will want to save the waypoints and route in the same GPX file. For that to work you need to have OpenCPN clear of any other routes and waypoints. Then you can "Export All Visible" and OpenCPN will write a GPX file with the waypoints and route points together.

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Old 22-11-2016, 11:23   #14
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

Hi Fabbin,

Sorry for the delay, I've left my boat in Florida for the holiday season and will return after the new year so I've been doing a lot of traveling.

Your workaround is interesting. I am very cautious in doing routes. I publish a website where the routes are listed and they are often downloaded for navigation so I have to be extremely careful that there are no mistakes. The workaround has a lot of steps and that's multiplied by the number of routes. I would be extremely reluctant to use the steps for fear of errors by myself.

So I suppose the end result is that you see no way of providing an option for the OpenCPN routing tool to produce waypoints instead (or in addition to) turning points? I was hoping for an automated technique to avoid human errors.
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Old 23-11-2016, 21:56   #15
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Re: Waypoints and Route Points

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Your workaround is interesting. I am very cautious in doing routes. I publish a website where the routes are listed and they are often downloaded for navigation so I have to be extremely careful that there are no mistakes. The workaround has a lot of steps and that's multiplied by the number of routes. I would be extremely reluctant to use the steps for fear of errors by myself.
Try it out. It's not as complex as it seems. The steps related to downloading and installing Notepad++ only need to be done once. A lot of the other steps are required to be sure all the points in your route are accurately located. You already do those.

The steps that are new copy the route points to the beginning of the file and then change the copies route points to waypoints. Save the modified route to a new GPX file so your original route file will remain intact in case you make a mistake.

You could do the editing with Notepad (or almost any text editor) but Notepad++ shows the GPX file in a format that makes it easy to see its structure. That will help you identify the block of route points you need to copy.

Once you've done it a time or two I think you'll see it is quite easy and your worries about the apparent complexity will evaporate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob423 View Post
So I suppose the end result is that you see no way of providing an option for the OpenCPN routing tool to produce waypoints instead (or in addition to) turning points? I was hoping for an automated technique to avoid human errors.
I'm sure a programmer could modify the program to automatically place the waypoints in the GPX file, but I don't have the skills to do that. I have feature requests in the queue that have been there over four years waiting for a programmer to get to them.

Your choices are (1) follow the instructions I sent you (and have your routes fixed tomorrow), (2) put a feature request in the Tracker (and maybe see some action in two to five years), or (3) learn to modify the code yourself or find someone who knows how to do it and create your own private version of OpenCPN to handle the routes for you. None are ideal solutions, but there aren't enough programmers on the project to take care of all the features that have been requested.

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