Touch Screens and Tablets

[jackdale]

I need to spend mote time on the thread, but I would like to also recommend Centrafuse Localizer (run as administrator) as an alternative to Geolocation TCP. I have have better luck with it on my Asus Vivo Tab Smart.

[bdbcat]

RD...

This is the best solution:

1) Have the user input the longest dimension (instead of width) in mm, and use the OS's highest pixel dimension. From those two, calculate dot pitch.

I'll experiment with it on my windows tab.

I don't want two numbers, or diagonal, because it makes more work for the 99% who are not on tablets.

I will retain the "width" expression in the dialog. That seems clear enough. Lets face it, 98.5% of users are on a landscape mode monitor of some sort.

Tablet users will figure it out, especially after you finish the Wiki page

Dave

[RhythmDoctor]

OK, sounds good. I'll update the wiki accordingly (tomorrow evening).

Does the manual input of "Physical Screen Width" only affect those who enable "Tablet Scaled Graphics"? If so, you might consider having the two settings next to each other instead of on separate tabs.

[bdbcat]

RD...

The Physical Screen Width applies to all systems, and is used to accurately calculate actual on-screen chart scale.

Thanks for the Wiki work

Dave

[rgleason]

Jackdale

...I would like to also recommend Centrafuse Localizer (run as administrator) as an alternative to Geolocation TCP. I have have better luck with it on my Asus Vivo Tab Smart.

Thanks, seems to cost about $15, so Geolocation is first option.
Centrafuse Inc. - Localizer 5 Service
Should this be put under Wiki -Supplimental same location as Geolocation?


LATER -- added.

[Wrong]

Originally posted by RythemDoctor:

With the recent proliferation of Windows 8 tablets, there is now an economical and easily accessible tablet platform for OpenCPN that does not require rooting, virtualization, or other cumbersome hacks.

As the original developer of OpenCPN on android tablets, I am always bemused by comments such as yours. Odds are you have never tried to use OpenCPN on an android tablet. With OpenCPN running in a chroot linux environment, the mouse functions and keyboard are controlled by the vnc agent. I have never felt the need to engage in a "cumbersome" effort such as the one in this thread to use OpenCPN. Also, since the subject of this thread is 'Touch Screens and tablets', can it be presumed it includes all tablets, not just Windows tablets? No?

You really ought to try taking the 'less-cumbersome' route and discover how much simpler it is to use OpenCPN on an android with the vnc agent handling mouse and keyboard functions.

[cagney]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Originally posted by RythemDoctor:

As the original developer of OpenCPN on android tablets, I am always bemused by comments such as yours. Odds are you have never tried to use OpenCPN on an android tablet. With OpenCPN running in a chroot linux environment, the mouse functions and keyboard are controlled by the vnc agent. I have never felt the need to engage in a "cumbersome" effort such as the one in this thread to use OpenCPN. Also, since the subject of this thread is 'Touch Screens and tablets', can it be presumed it includes all tablets, not just Windows tablets? No?

You really ought to try taking the 'less-cumbersome' route and discover how much simpler it is to use OpenCPN on an android with the vnc agent handling mouse and keyboard functions.

Wrong

Just read post #1 in this thread again.
If you would like to summarize your experiences with Android, I'll welcome it. This is not a thread for general discussion om the subject, but a "cry" for help to document what's possible with all 'Touch Screens and tablets', and how they work with the current beta release.

Thomas

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by cagney

Wrong

Just read post #1 in this thread again.
If you would like to summarize your experiences with Android, I'll welcome it. This is not a thread for general discussion om the subject, but a "cry" for help to document what's possible with all 'Touch Screens and tablets', and how they work with the current beta release.

Thomas

I don't need to read post #1 again. The only contribution I need to make about my experience using OpenCPN on an android device in a linux chroot environment was in my last post and is not a matter of 'general discussion'. The vnc agent, of which there are free and non-free versions available from Google Play include more or less features. Using bVNC free enables users to manage all the mouse and keyboard functions necessary to use OpenCPN. Purely, simply to the point. No further contribution is needed.

You can quote me on this in the Wiki.

[RhythmDoctor]

Originally Posted by Wrong

...As the original developer of OpenCPN on android tablets, I am always bemused by comments such as yours...You really ought to try taking the 'less-cumbersome' route and discover how much simpler it is to use OpenCPN on an android with the vnc agent handling mouse and keyboard functions.

Sorry if I bemused you.

I am a big Android fan, and I would love to see a native Android version of OpenCPN that is officially supported. But sadly, that does not appear to be the case yet. Windows8 is the only tablet platform that is formally supported at this point. (Thomas - correct me if I am wrong about this.) AFAIK, there are no OSX or Linux Fedor/Ubuntu tablets. But for a Windows8 tablet, you can download the generic Windows installer, already compiled, double-tap it, and O will install and run on your machine with no modifications. If you have problems with it, report them, and Dave responds with a fix, just as he does with all formally supported hardware/OS combinations.

I have followed the work to get O running on Android. I admire your persistence and look forward to it (and the needed development tools) maturing to the point where it could be a formally supported platform that could be easily installed with a native .apk. But as a software developer, your definition of cumbersome is far different than that of a typical user who is not a programmer. Frankly, my own geekiness allows me to tolerate a lot more "cumbersome-ness" than most people. So I am sure I could succeed in getting O to run on Android, and I would grow to love it. But taking my engineer's hat off, I would not pretend to call the process straightforward, and would not recommend it to someone who is a typical user. In fact, I had planned to kludge together an Android tablet with O, until about a year ago when the low-priced Windows8 tablets started appearing to compete with the Microsoft Surface. That was a big turning point IMO, where affordable Windows tablets hardware emerged to run O out of the box.

Just to be sure that I have not missed out on any recent breakthroughs on Android, I went back and re-read this thread, this thread, and this wiki. I stand by my use of the words cumbersome, root, and virtualization. You yourself referred to the use of NoRoot as a stopgap measure. I look forward to the day when your procedure is refined enough that a user can go to Play Store and download a working version of OpenCPN on his Android tablet. It's a huge platform that would bring in a lot of new users. But at the current state of development, I think that information belongs on the Developer's wiki, where it is right now.

And VNC really isn't running OpenCPN on a tablet, as far as I can tell. You're just running it on a PC and viewing it on Android. I've run VNC on PCs before, so I know a little about it. It seems a little cumbersome and more power-hungry compared to just running it natively on a Windows tablet.

[rgleason]

VNC Stands for Virtual Network Control I believe.
https://www.realvnc.com/products/vnc/
TeamViewer - Free Remote Control, Remote Access & Online Meetings

What are you doing? Using the cloud? Running another big computer on board?
Yes, this is a perfectly reasonable configuration for some boats with a 640 amp house battery, and big engine or a big PV array. This is an alternative to consider, but it is not the same as running Opencpn under android or alongside or whatever on that device. I believe in truth in packaging here, for all those reading.

Happy New Year Wrong. I still hope you can share your experience in more detail because even though the program is being run "virtually" over a network by some other bigger computer, the experience would very similar to actually running on the Tablet I believe.

Your suggestions to make O tablet operation better might even help you...ever considered that it might help others too?

PS Like your boat, doesn't look like it has 640 amp batteries! What is your experience and use and power requirements? Also tell us a little about your boat please.

[rgleason]

So Wrong now that you created a minor storm, and others say you program, why not help Sean with his efforts to build a version of O that runs on Android? He's been plugging away at it for almost 6 months now. I am sure he'd love to have another O user helping. Check out his github.

[RhythmDoctor]

Originally Posted by rgleason

...and others say you program...

If you're referring to what I said, I may have made an incorrect assumption. Wrong described himself as "the original developer of OpenCPN on android tablets," and I took that to mean that he is a programmer. It seems like a good assumption, but it's still an assumption. Perhaps he could let us know what actual development of OpenCPN he has done on Android tablets.

As someone who has been here a few years, I always thought that manimaul was the original developer of OpenCPN on Android tablets, though he eventually went the commercial route and renamed his product (which was originally called AOCPN, IIRC).

Back to the original subject, Thomas asked to have some improvements to the tablet documentation, and I made my best attempt to provide it. I only documented Windows8 tablets because that's the only platform that I recognize as being formally supported, since I am not aware of tablets that run the other two builds of OpenCPN (Mac OSX or Linux Fedora/Debian). If I am incorrect about that, let me know and I will attempt to make corrections.

I will tell you that from the day Microsoft introduced Win8, I could see some real potential for OpenCPN and other traditional Windows programs that could benefit from running on a tablet form factor. Apple decided to write a separate OS for tablet/phone, Google did the same thing by morphing the Linux kernel to Android OS. Microsoft has taken a lot of bullets over Win8 (mostly due to loss of the Start menu, which is why I recommend Classic Shell). But in the long term, Microsoft could see some real nice synergies for expanding their OS into a desktop/laptop/tablet hybrid system. One of those benefits is the ability to run OpenCPN from a generic Windows installer with relatively little tweaking to the source code.

[rgleason]

RDr,
Thank you for your excellent writeup. It will serve many users well, and I hope it grows as we learn and refine. I know I am going to use it.

What do you think of the Lenovo Miix 2 11, or is it still the Miix 2 8?

[RhythmDoctor]

Originally Posted by rgleason

RDr,
Thank you for your excellent writeup. It will serve many users well, and I hope it grows as we learn and refine. I know I am going to use it.

What do you think of the Lenovo Miix 2 11, or is it still the Miix 2 8?

Thanks. I know you're really putting a lot of energy into improvements and documentation. Thanks for that!

I am still using the Miix2 8". The 10" and 11" models did not impress me as much originally, but I never saw them in person and screen brightness ratings weren't available (most critical spec for my uses). When I bought the Miix2 8" I had seen it in the store first, and it was REALLY IMPRESSIVE. Looking over the reviews that have appeared since then, it looks like the 10" model is same brightness as 8", but 11" model is significantly dimmer. So I'll keep an eye on the 10" model and if its price drops I may consider it.

The 10" and 11" lack internal GPS, but I don't use that anyway because I have my GPS and AIS transmitting on the boat over Bluetooth. But it may be a disappointment for others who need the internal GPS. My 8" model has internal GPS, but it is quirky - loses reception if you hold the tablet in the wrong location.

-- the "other Rick"

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by rgleason

VNC Stands for Virtual Network Control I believe.
https://www.realvnc.com/products/vnc/
TeamViewer - Free Remote Control, Remote Access & Online Meetings

What are you doing? Using the cloud? Running another big computer on board?
Yes, this is a perfectly reasonable configuration for some boats with a 640 amp house battery, and big engine or a big PV array. This is an alternative to consider, but it is not the same as running Opencpn under android or alongside or whatever on that device. I believe in truth in packaging here, for all those reading.

Happy New Year Wrong. I still hope you can share your experience in more detail because even though the program is being run "virtually" over a network by some other bigger computer, the experience would very similar to actually running on the Tablet I believe.

Your suggestions to make O tablet operation better might even help you...ever considered that it might help others too?

PS Like your boat, doesn't look like it has 640 amp batteries! What is your experience and use and power requirements? Also tell us a little about your boat please.

In this post you have revealed your total lack of knowledge about running OpenCPN on an android device in linux chroot environment.

If you and the others here who've taken one type or another pot shot at me in the last several posts want to discuss this in a no-holds-barred environment, then meet me here. OpenCPN on android devices! - Page 3 - Cruising Anarchy - Sailing Anarchy Forums

By the way, discussion about the possible improvements to the tablet interface was started by a sailor using OpenCPN on his high resolution android device. No sooner had the subject been raised than a pirouette to Windows and Mac devices was made. OpenCPN on androids running in a chroot linux environment was left out of the effort, assuming its place as the bastard child of OpenCPN development. As a matter of fact enabling tablet features in OpenCPN renders the vnc functions - that control the mouse and keyboard - useless in the chroot environment.

I have never claimed to have done anything in the development of the program called OpenCPN, as a native application on androids or otherwise. This is not to say I didn't begin to participate in the effort. I did. But the condescendent attitude of at least one developer caused me to bail. I could care less if OpenCPN ever runs natively on androids. I developed the approach to using OpenCPN on androids in a chroot environment. Or, if this suits you better, I used my knowledge of linux combined with applying readily available android applications to make it work. I didn't do this alone however, because important contributions by others - especially where gps usage is concerned - were made.

You can learn about that which you have so aptly revealed your lack of understanding and knowledge here: Building on Motorola Xoom | Official OpenCPN Homepage