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Old 24-04-2014, 09:02   #16
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Re: TABLETS

This may be the Broadcom Bluetooth driver for Lenovo that RhythmDr had trouble with it use and Opencpn.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/down...DocID=DS031999

RhythmDr has several good posts about using Bluetooth for AIS and GPS and Bdcat has an ongoing thread about it here:
OpenCPN not recognising Virtual COM port

Some Bluetooth Concepts - RD States:
Quote:
Apparently the transmitting device needs to present itself to the host as a serial device (as opposed to earpiece, stereo headphones, etc.). SPP is the acronym for Serial Port Profile, and there are other acronyms for the other profiles. Since the vast majority of people want headsets or headphones, most drivers support those things, but may not support more arcane things like serial emulation. Since my transmitter is a serial device, it's pretty clear that it would want to convert back to serial emulation at the computer end, so things have worked pretty well. I'm not sure if the other devices do the same thing, or perhaps want to emulate a WiFi network or other type of communications device.
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Old 24-04-2014, 09:09   #17
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Re: TABLETS

Regarding use of Bluetooth Bdcat reports:
Quote:
...the only BT hardware I have ( a cheap GPS module) works fine on WIN7, after stabilizing with several reboots as you remark above.
Bdcat would like to nail down the BT issues, but it is elusive.

Also RhythmDr has AIS over bluetooth working by setting up several other programs to handle the virtual port instead of Opencpn. See this setup.
Sending GX2150 AIS NMEA data to chart plotter over Bluetooth - Page 3 - SailNet Community

RD also reports
Quote:
"And, like you, I have not had this problem with my other Bluetooth GPS, which in my case is my Android phone with "GPS over BT" app.
Observation: For a Dell Venue 8 64gb or Dell Venue 11 128 using your cell phone (like Samsung S4) GPS over bluetooth might be one way to get the GPS signal to Opencpn. Do you mind running your S4 phone on Airplane mode out at sea?
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Old 24-04-2014, 10:30   #18
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Re: TABLETS

In a effort to split up wireless data transfer, what is needed is some sort of Mux/Bluetooth device that connects
1. GPS - Nmea 0183 - perhaps USB connection ( GPS out)
2. AIS - Nmea 0183 - 3 terminals (needs GPS sentence in, AIS data out)
3. VHF/DSC -Nmea 0183 - 3 terminals (needs GPS sentence in, DCS data out)
3. Instrument Data -Nmea 0183 -3 terminals (also Seatalk convert)

to Bluetooth 4.0 Transmitter/Receiver that is portable and neatly connected with built in power from 12vdc. Perhaps it needs a small cpu like arduino.
===
Anyone have any ideas?

I found this non- wifi alternative, but I wanted to leave the wifi for Radar only to spread the load. This includes Seatalk Instruments via Nmea 0183 to the Tablet.
SeaTalk NMEA Bridge128SD w. repeater display, Keyboard and USB $238 eur
gadgetPool.de
This device looks like it does most if not all of what is needed:
1. Seatalk Port (read + write), galvanic isloated, Translate seatalk (wind, STW, depth, sea temp..) to nmea0183 and back.
2. Baudrates for USB port and NMEA ports can be adjusted seperately from 300 to 38400 Baud.
3. Nmea 0183 Port (read + write) galv isolated
-Use for AIS Transponder -set for 38400 baud and connect?
-Or to write out nmea GPS to VHF? -set for 4800 or 9600 baud.
-Or to read in nmea DSC date from VHF? - set for 4800 or 9600 baud.
4. USB Port (read + write)
- Read in nmea0183 data to PC via USB port
-Writes out nmea0183 from PC and translates back to Seatalk
-such as Opencpn waypoint instructions to seatalk autopilot.
6. Seatalk bridge has LCD that shows nmea data.
6. The bridge also has buttons for remote control of seatalk autopilot!
7. The bridge also can calculate True wind speed and direction from speed over ground or speed through water.
8. Has on board voltage regulation.
9. Galvanic Isolated seatalk and nmea ports.
10. Boot loader for software updates.
11. New nmea like command offered $STalk to send any seatalk command you want. Can go either direction.
12. Code and instructions are available.

I am wondering if this will also be able to serve up Radar over wifi? Specifically,
Broadband BR24 Radar and Opencpn Radar Plugin- The tablet does not have a hard Ethernet connection, and wifi may not have adequate speed with amount of data being processed...
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Old 24-04-2014, 12:04   #19
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Re: TABLETS

See Brookhouse Mux with USB Bluetooth
Bluetooth connector

Can I use the USB connector on the gadgetPool.de to transfer data to and from the Tablet Bluetooth. I think so.
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Old 24-04-2014, 20:45   #20
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Re: TABLETS

I think PCs and tablets will pair with up to 7 Bluetooth devices simultaneously. Depending on how many instruments you want to display, it might be cheaper to buy multiple Bluetooth transmitters instead of a multiplexer. The GX2150 radio can send both DSC and AIS on a single wire - no need to multiplex them. My Raymarine ST4000+ autopilot as NMEA input terminals - no need for a Seatalk converter if you want OpenCPN to drive the autopilot (check your own autopilot specs). I originally tried a Seatalk converter so I could get depth readings into OpenCPN, but it nearly caught fire inside the cabin, so I got rid of it and decided I'd stick with my depth readings on the original Raymarine displays.

So you might consider using individual Bluetooth connections for each device. Although I am continuing to have the same problems getting OpenCPN to connect directly to my Bluetooth transmitters. That has not been fixed by any of the betas. And I've had that same problem on two different Windows 7 laptops - it's not unique to the Miix2 8" tablet. The problem seems to be specific to OpenCPN, my model of Bluetooth transmitter, and the Microsoft Bluetooth Stack. So prepare to do some major Bluetooth debugging, no matter which tablet you buy.
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Old 24-04-2014, 21:57   #21
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Re: TABLETS

Okay, Rick this is an interesting idea:

1. GPS/AIS/DSC - Out/In Nmea 0183 (from GX2150)
2. Seatalk <--> Out/In Nmea 0183 (from Instruments)

So need a converter Seatalk to/from Nmea. gadgetpoolde has one Tiny SeaTalk Nmea Bridge with Usb (optional RS232) $125 Could just connect the USB at the beginning.

Would need to be able to connect a separate Bluetooth to each using a Serial RS232 BT $59/ea?

Then eventually need to send/receive
3. BR24 Radar via wifi - Use Wireless serial adapter $89

Will something like this be possible to do?
I will need to wire power (V? amps?) for all 3 of them.

Then the next question is what troubles will I have with connections to Opencpn and the Tablet itself. -Can only learn that by trying it I guess.

Thanks for you thoughtful note about pros and cons of bigger Tablet. Screen brightness in sunlight is important.

Good point about Wheel ST4000 having Nmea inputs, I actually dont use waypoints like that (yet). I am very interested in the wind and speedo data, thus need seatalk converter.
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Old 25-04-2014, 06:17   #22
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Re: TABLETS

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Okay, Rick this is an interesting idea:

1. GPS/AIS/DSC - Out/In Nmea 0183 (from GX2150)
2. Seatalk <--> Out/In Nmea 0183 (from Instruments)
#1 will not work. The GX2150 only sends out AIS and DSC. It will not echo the GPS. OpenCPN will have to get its GPS sentences from something else (internal tablet GPS? USB dongle? Globalsat Bluetooth GPS?) Even the new GX2200 model, which has GPS built into the radio, does not appear to send out its GPS sentences (see page 21 of the manual).

You're going through a similar thought process that I went through. I originally thought that the GX2150 would echo the GPS, and had to call SH tech support to discover that it did not. My plan went through 6 iterations (Plan A through Plan F) before I built anything. You might want to check out the relevant threads, since you're going through much the same issues that I did. You'll see the things I discovered along the way, much as you're doing right now:

NMEA over Bluetooth - SailNet Community

Sending GX2150 AIS NMEA data to chart plotter over Bluetooth - SailNet Community
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Old 25-04-2014, 06:50   #23
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Re: TABLETS

Get the RO4800 VHF, it will do the job.

Gerhard
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Old 25-04-2014, 20:07   #24
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Re: TABLETS

Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
...You're going through a similar thought process that I went through. I originally thought that the GX2150 would echo the GPS, and had to call SH tech support to discover that it did not. My plan went through 6 iterations (Plan A through Plan F) before I built anything. You might want to check out the relevant threads, since you're going through much the same issues that I did. You'll see the things I discovered along the way, much as you're doing right now:

NMEA over Bluetooth - SailNet Community

Sending GX2150 AIS NMEA data to chart plotter over Bluetooth - SailNet Community
I have a few additional comments to add that may not have been covered in these links.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
...Good point about Wheel ST4000 having Nmea inputs, I actually dont use waypoints like that (yet). I am very interested in the wind and speedo data, thus need seatalk converter.
If all your instruments are seatalk, then you likely don't need a multiplexer at all, since seatalk does the multiplexing for you. All you need is a seatalk to NMEA bridge. The one I tried was from Raymarine, but like I mentioned elsewhere, it fried itself and almost caught fire, so I became scared to use it again.

My autopilot's NMEA input only accepts 4800 bps, so I had to dedicate a second Bluetooth transmitter to 4800 speeds. For this reason, my GPS runs into the computer at 4800 (via Bluetooth). The AIS runs on a separate transmitter at 38400. Because GPS goes into the radio at 4800, the GX2150 has to be configured to send 4800 DSC out a separate wire from the 38400 AIS. Effectively, the GX2150 is set up to work like the older GX2100 model. Doing it this way means I do not send DSC sentences to my computer - the DSC wire is disconnected. The other option would have been to configure the GX2150 to send both AIS and DSC on a single wire at 38400, but then I would have to send GPS to the radio at 38400, which would make the GPS signal incompatible with the autopilot. So all these decisions were interconnected, and there was no way to have everything without adding a third Bluetooth transmitter and/or a multiplexer.

So to keep things simple and inexpensive, I opted for autopilot control instead DSC. This was an easy decision for me, because NOBODY has ever hailed me on DSC. (USCG estimates 80-90% of boats don't even have GPS connected to their DSC radios anyway.) If someday I do get a DSC hail, the radio will automatically give me their coordinates, along with bearing and distance to their location - I just won't see it on my chartplotter.

The other thing I gave up was having depth show up on OpenCPN. I would have needed the Seatalk bridge for that, and I didn't want to try another after the first one almost caught fire. Instead, I bought a Seatalk cable to connect my Raymarine depth gauge to my Raymarine autopilot, and configured the AP screen to show the depth also. This was useful because my depth meter is on the cabin bulkhead, where passengers often block it, but the autopilot controller is right next to the helm where nobody ever blocks it.

I am also interested in a wind gauge, but I plan to buy a Bluetooth anemometer without a display, and feed that signal into my tablet for display on OpenCPN's dashboard plugin.
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Old 25-04-2014, 21:41   #25
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Re: TABLETS

RhythmDoctor [Rick]
I spent a good 2-3 hours reading the 2 entire threads this morning, and learned a lot.
As I said, I like the care and craftsmanship of your BT RJ45 Box. Since I do use the Seatalk Bus for Wind, Depth, Temp & Autopilot ST4000 Wheel and I eventually plan to have AIS, Radar hopefully to a Tablet with BT and Wifi, could you advise about this following:

1. For Puck GPS to Autopilot Nmea terminals on Seatalk ST400 Wheel - will the GPS be available on the entire Seatalk bus and will the sentence be converted with a seatalk - nmea bridge? (GPS set to 4800 baud will probably work). If it does not convert, hopefully the Tablet will have GPS, but it would be nice to know.
2. Since the Puck is a talker (nmea out) I can also wire it to my VHF/DSC with no problem provided the baud is set to 4800.
3. For AIS I would get a new VHF/DSC/AIS probably, or more expensive Seatalk AIS.

Data for the Tablet
============
1. Preferably a Tablet with a good built in GPS like Lenovo Miix 8. (fewer wires and problems when disconnected from the boat instruments, when a quick check is needed.)
2. Seatalk converted to Nmea to serial BT similar to yours <----> Tablet (out and in)
3. AIS (38400 baud) connected to serial BT similar to yours ---> Tablet (1 way)
4. Radar connected to serial wifi <----> Tablet (2 way)
5. DSC (4800 baud) wires are not used. DSC handled on VHF screen.

There are Seatalk- Nmea bridges that look good and fairly reasonable.
A. Tiny Seatalk Nmea Bridge galv $120 do you think it could be connected to serial BT?
B. Seatalk Nema Bridge w/Keybd, Display $230 do you think this could be connected to serial BT?

Or would I be better off getting the Shipmodul mux w wifi or similar a little less expensive by the time it is added up.

Here is a simple Wind instrument you'd appreciate, but it has wires! - I like your idea for a BT Wind.
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Old 25-04-2014, 21:57   #26
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Re: TABLETS

Found in manual for Tiny Seatalk - Nmea Bridge

Quote:
The SeaTalk Port is galvanic isolated from the USB port. The SeaTalk-NMEA-Link gets it's operating power from the USB port - not from the SeaTalk Port. USB plugs are unstable. Please use the supplied extension cable between your computer and the SeaTalk-Nmea-Bridge. Do not plug the SeaTalk-Nmea-Bridge directly into a USB
Port of your computer.
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Old 25-04-2014, 22:45   #27
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Re: TABLETS

I don't know enough to comment on everything. See below in red:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
RhythmDoctor [Rick]
I spent a good 2-3 hours reading the 2 entire threads this morning, and learned a lot.
As I said, I like the care and craftsmanship of your BT RJ45 Box. Since I do use the Seatalk Bus for Wind, Depth, Temp & Autopilot ST4000 Wheel and I eventually plan to have AIS, Radar hopefully to a Tablet with BT and Wifi, could you advise about this following:

1. For Puck GPS to Autopilot Nmea terminals on Seatalk ST400 Wheel - will the GPS be available on the entire Seatalk bus and will the sentence be converted with a seatalk - nmea bridge? (GPS set to 4800 baud will probably work). If it does not convert, hopefully the Tablet will have GPS, but it would be nice to know. Plugging a GPS puck into an autopilot really provides very little benefit. The autopilot wants to know bearing and distance to the next waypoint, crosstrack error, and other things that only a chartplotter can provide. When people say they "plug in their GPS" they generally mean plugging in their chartplotter or handheld (which has route navigation capability). The autopilot does not really care your absolute coordinates. For safety reasons, I recommend connecting the puck to the radio, and tap off that talker line to whatever else needs it. In my case, I tapped off to the Bluetooth transmitter. So I'd focus on getting a bidirectional Bluetooth tranmission going, with Bluetooth GPS@4800 into your tablet and Bluetooth chartplotter data @4800 from tablet to autopilot. If the tablet has internal GPS, you could consider sending the DSC data (if you ever get any in your sailing area) to the tablet.
2. Since the Puck is a talker (nmea out) I can also wire it to my VHF/DSC with no problem provided the baud is set to 4800. Yes, as I suggested above, this should be the PRIMARY focus of your puck. Or alternately, consider buying the GX2200 if don't already have the GX2150. Looks like the GX2200 uses true RS422 protocol (dedicated - wire for each + wire), so the wiring is a little different, since your BT transmitters would be RS232.
3. For AIS I would get a new VHF/DSC/AIS probably, or more expensive Seatalk AIS. Not familiar with the Seatalk version. It seems like it would make your system more turnkey, and then a single conversion to serial and Bluetooth could handle the entire interface with the tablet.

Data for the Tablet
============
1. Preferably a Tablet with a good built in GPS like Lenovo Miix 8. (fewer wires and problems when disconnected from the boat instruments, when a quick check is needed.) I'll continue testing my Miix internal GPS to make sure the slow initial fix away from WiFi is not a recurring problem. If you get a tablet without GPS, you could use Bluetooth transmitter from your puck, or buy the Globalsat Bluetooth GPS (about $60 for either)
2. Seatalk converted to Nmea to serial BT similar to yours <----> Tablet (out and in) I do not have a Seatalk converter - mine was fried. But it sounds like it would work for you.
3. AIS (38400 baud) connected to serial BT similar to yours ---> Tablet (1 way)
4. Radar connected to serial wifi <----> Tablet (2 way) 2 way may be a potential problem. OpenCPN and PolarCOM appear to support TCP/UDP only as unidirectional - output only or input only. I still don't fully understand why it's this way, since full duplex WiFi is ubiquitous. But unidirectional WiFi could make this quite difficult to achieve.
5. DSC (4800 baud) wires are not used. DSC handled on VHF screen. If you don't want to send data to the autopilot at 4800 bps, you could configure the GX2150 to send both DSC and AIS on the same wire at 38400.

There are Seatalk- Nmea bridges that look good and fairly reasonable.
A. Tiny Seatalk Nmea Bridge galv $120 do you think it could be connected to serial BT? If it has RS232 output, no problem.
B. Seatalk Nema Bridge w/Keybd, Display $230 do you think this could be connected to serial BT? Same as above.

Or would I be better off getting the Shipmodul mux w wifi or similar a little less expensive by the time it is added up. Just like above, WiFi support in OpenCPN seems to be unidirectional only. This could complicate things.

Here is a simple Wind instrument you'd appreciate, but it has wires! - I like your idea for a BT Wind. Here's the one I'm planning to get once it starts shipping. It's an update of their previous model which is now discontinued: SailTimer Wind Instrumentâ„¢
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Old 25-04-2014, 23:32   #28
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Re: TABLETS

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Found in manual for Tiny Seatalk - Nmea Bridge

Quote:
The SeaTalk Port is galvanic isolated from the USB port. The SeaTalk-NMEA-Link gets it's operating power from the USB port - not from the SeaTalk Port. USB plugs are unstable. Please use the supplied extension cable between your computer and the SeaTalk-Nmea-Bridge. Do not plug the SeaTalk-Nmea-Bridge directly into a USB Port of your computer.
You may want to contact them to verify, but I suspect that the "unstable" aspect has to do with the computer's USB ports losing power if the computer goes to sleep. I powered my 2 Bluetooth transmitter and GPS by tapping a 12v auto adapter into my radio's 12v feed (so everything turns on and off with the VHF panel switch), and inserting a USB charger plug into the auto adapter, then run a USB cable from there. Essentially, the USB plug does the 12v-5v stepdown, and supplies up to 500mV to the devices (per USB specification) None of this is marine grade, but I'm in freshwater and I run a dehumidifier 24/7 on the boat.
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Old 27-04-2014, 20:28   #29
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Re: TABLETS

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Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I have a Miix2 8" Win8 tablet running OpenCPN. It has a GPS built in, but you need to run the Geolocation TCP utility to have OpenCPN access it. Search this forum for "Miix2" to find numerous comments that I have posted on it:

Amazon.com : Lenovo IdeaTab Miix2 8-Inch 32 GB Tablet : Tablet Computers : Computers & Accessories

If conditions get wet, I put it in this waterproof pouch:

Amazon.com: Travelon Luggage Waterproof E-Reader Pouch, Clear/Black, One Size: Clothing
We did our first sail of the year today, so my first chance to try out the Miix2 8" in real-use conditions in the cockpit. One significant thing I notice was the polarization of the screen, which I had neglected to check previously.

The Netbook that I had used for the past four seasons has a 45° polarization angle, which would cause the screen brightness to be reduced by 50% when I wore polarized sunglasses. This made it too dim to use effectively, so I got in the habit of not using sunglasses when sailing.

The Miix2's screen is polarized vertically when used in landscape orientation. This means that when using the tablet in portrait orientation, polarized sunglasses cause the screen to go completely black. Therefore, I cannot use sunglasses with the tablet in portrait orientation, just like with the Netbook.

But using the tablet in landscape mode causes absolutely no attenuation of the screen brightness. So on extremely bright days when I may want to use polarized sunglasses, I can easily do so, but I need to orient the tablet in landscape orientation. That's a nice option to have (though I would prefer to have it in portrait orientation).

This does change my thinking a bit for how to configure OpenCPN. If using it it portrait orientation, I would probably do a dual-window with one zoomed in for detail and another zoomed out for AIS targets. This is how I used my Netbook. I do not have this working that way yet because if some initial difficulties sharing NMEA sentences via UDP. I may go back and devote some more time to that now that I have a reason to.
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Old 01-05-2014, 13:11   #30
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Re: TABLETS

did some research too about the NMEA (SeaTalk, FastNet, etc.) to USB/BT/Ethernet/WiFi and found this thingie

never tried it, only in MS Paint, but it should work like in the picture attached
i've trade a mail with vesper marine, told me to use DeviceNet cable for connecting to SeaTalk bus

if anyone have tried this XB-8000 please give some feedback, to me it looks like no-competition unit

NMEA to USB/WiFi w/ AIS & GPS (VesperMarine XB-8000)
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