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Old 03-01-2015, 05:39   #31
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

Sounds good, but let's not let perfection be the enemy of good enough.
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Old 03-01-2015, 05:53   #32
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
Sounds good, but let's not let perfection be the enemy of good enough.
Correct - so where to put the limit?
Or how to group and hide functions in order to keep the perceived complexity low?

If somebody would like to look over the fence:
http://www.furunousa.com/ProductDocu...11-16-2012.pdf

Hubert
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Old 03-01-2015, 06:25   #33
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

292 page instruction manual. If that's what compliance means, fugeddaboudit. I think OpenCPN does a much better job with initial ease of use, with much greater capabilities "hidden under the hood."
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:00   #34
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

+1

I like Opencpn because of:
1. basic simplicity and initial ease of use
2. feature content
3. Responsiveness of the developers. Does anyone think we would have these conversations with Garmin developers?
4. I feel involved.

That said there seems to be too much resistance to adding things to the tools menus. I think as long as we add features there will be an increase in the Tools menus. Good examples of how this can be managed are:
1. Subdivision of the Display tool
2. Options menu for OpenGL

As long as the released system can be used by the first time user with nothing more that adding her chart files, and we "layer" the Tool options, that will be optimal.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:12   #35
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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292 page instruction manual. If that's what compliance means, fugeddaboudit. I think OpenCPN does a much better job with initial ease of use, with much greater capabilities "hidden under the hood."
Would be interesting to see how many pages the OpenCPN Wiki converted to a pdf document yields....
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:13   #36
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

@ Seagull I was thinking of the same thing, but to fatten & darken the characters a little, but there is a problem with darker backgrounds where the soundings text does not show so well...and darkening might not help that.

@Bcn
A. User adjust base Sounding Size uniformly at all scales.
Does it appear to you that having a user option control for size of Soundings Symbols (within a range of 1x present size to 1.75x present siize) would violate ECDIS standards?

B. Sounding symbol proportional increases just before "Overzoom"
Since the Soundings symbols "grow" at about the last 4 zoom levels (well beyond the "Overzoom" Warning), would it be acceptable to have them do the same thing with the largest size occurring at the zoom level just before "Overzoom" warning level?
Once the OverZoom level is hit, the size would drop back down to normal until the last 3-4 zoom levels when the soundings would increase in size normally as it does now.
I am suggesting that this would not require a user switch, but would be hard coded, but "Overzoomers" might object to not having the larger depth size, even though this is an "improvement" on the current situation!

C. What is the ECDIS response to modifying the raster file for the symbols? How was that created?
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:26   #37
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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@Bcn
A. User adjust base Sounding Size uniformly at all scales.
Does it appear to you that having a user option control for size of Soundings Symbols (within a range of 1x present size to 1.75x present siize) would violate ECDIS standards?
Under investigation - at a first glance there is minimum size.

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C. What is the ECDIS response to modifying the raster file for the symbols? How was that created?
Those are defined in the IHO standards (S-52 Addendum to Annex A, Part 1, "S-52 ENC Symbol Catalogue").
This is for me an item that should be rendered in full compliance and not be modified.
Looking into different chart plotters should give the same information. And not provoking questions like: "and this icon, what does that mean now??"

Hubert
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:30   #38
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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C. What is the ECDIS response to modifying the raster file for the symbols? How was that created?
I am surprised that the soundings numbers are handled as bitmaps/sprites, and not as text. That is going to complicate any size changes, with pixelation and/or blurring occurring at different sizes. Is there a reason soundings could not be handled as text characters? As part of this, would there be any possibility of having the user configure number format to suppress or include the first decimal place (like in Excel)? That extra decimal adds a lot of clutter, and is totally unnecessary when displaying feet (kudos to Dave for taking it out). When displaying meters or fathoms, its value is debatable (does 0.1 meter/fathom exceed the significant figures of the actual sounding?), and thus a good candidate for user tweaking.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:32   #39
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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Would be interesting to see how many pages the OpenCPN Wiki converted to a pdf document yields....
A naive conversion of the builtin Help by a Firefox Web-To-PDF Plugin yields 245 pages, but probably the proportion of pictures there is higher than in most manuals.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:36   #40
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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A naive conversion of the builtin Help by a Firefox Web-To-PDF Plugin yields 245 pages, but probably the proportion of pictures there is higher than in most manuals.
Perhaps it was unfair of me, but it was my first reaction to scanning through the first 50 pages looking for something that was useful.

I think the measure of good design is how much functionality a user can get without any manual. Having a clickable window or tappable touchscreen goes a long way toward this goal, and is an inherent advantage of a software solution that is built on an OS that the user is already familiar with.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:58   #41
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
I am surprised that the soundings numbers are handled as bitmaps/sprites, and not as text. That is going to complicate any size changes, with pixelation and/or blurring occurring at different sizes. Is there a reason soundings could not be handled as text characters?
The texts are indeed defined as icons - one might realize this as SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics), but usually we will find bitmaps - with their exact proportions, line widths and colors. There are even several sets with different pivot points.
Minimum height is 2.5mm

Quote:
When displaying meters or fathoms, its value is debatable (does 0.1 meter/fathom exceed the significant figures of the actual sounding?), and thus a good candidate for user tweaking.
When your boat draws 0.9m and the "1" can be "1.0", "1.5" or "1.9" it will make a difference.
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:16   #42
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

I don't mean to be oppositional here, but I can resist making a couple points:
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...Minimum height is 2.5mm...
The effective minimum height is zero. That's what happens when the screen gets so cluttered that you turn off the soundings completely...which is why I call into question the notion of limiting the user to any sounding minimum size. If a user looks at a chart with settings that create so much overlap and clutter that he either can't read the soundings, or (worse) sees an incorrect sounding (2 next to 1 is read as 21), wouldn't it be better to let him reduce the size of the sounding instead of him turning it off completely?
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...When your boat draws 0.9m and the "1" can be "1.0", "1.5" or "1.9" it will make a difference.
But when is 1.5 actually 1.5? Tidal fluctuations, wind, waves, and movement of the bottom mandate that you either stay out of the area or only go in when you have local knowledge. This reinforces my point - you may want to see 1.5, while I may not want the clutter that comes along with every single sounding having a decimal point. Much better to let the user decide. Personally I would turn off the decimal, and if I was approaching a sounding that was close to my draft, I might right-click on the sounding and do Object Query for a more precise number. (Even then you don't know if the decimal is real, or a calculation artifact from converting from a rounded off number in a different unit.) But it should be the user's choice.

Maybe I mentioned this before, but I considered the decimal points to create so much clutter that I refused to use NOAA ENC charts until Dave eliminated the decimal points from the foot units. Ever since, I've been a big fan of ENCs while underway. (I still mostly use raster for planning routes ahead of time.)
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Old 03-01-2015, 10:33   #43
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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I think the measure of good design is how much functionality a user can get without any manual. Having a clickable window or tappable touchscreen goes a long way toward this goal, and is an inherent advantage of a software solution that is built on an OS that the user is already familiar with.
I agree. To elaborate further

1. Some form of rollover for tablets (tap, 2 tap and tap hold are used already. The only thing I can think of is an Info button, tap the button then tap the item in question, tap the button again to erase the info and/or let the info timeout)
2. The tools pages could have a universal information icon (like a circle with an I in it) that would open an appropriate wiki page in a new screen.

I realize this is a lot of work and trade-offs would have to be made; but it increases the first-time user friendliness. I think it would help experienced users when they encounter new features.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:04   #44
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

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I agree. To elaborate further

1. Some form of rollover for tablets (tap, 2 tap and tap hold are used already. The only thing I can think of is an Info button, tap the button then tap the item in question, tap the button again to erase the info and/or let the info timeout)
2. The tools pages could have a universal information icon (like a circle with an I in it) that would open an appropriate wiki page in a new screen.

I realize this is a lot of work and trade-offs would have to be made; but it increases the first-time user friendliness. I think it would help experienced users when they encounter new features.
I can imagine what you mean. There are ToolTips already but this is a rather poor help. Doing a context help system is some work for most operation systems, for a smart OS like Mac OSX however quickly done.
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Old 03-01-2015, 11:43   #45
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Re: Sounding size adjustment on Vector Charts

Stop this retoric and just introduce into the USER INTERFACE a font size adjustment and also make it darker not so light look.
Happy New Year to eveeryone.
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