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Old 16-09-2016, 07:01   #16
bcn
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Re: Signal K

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
I don't think n2k direct to a PC is possible today without using a manuf black box. I believe the openplotter effort has many possibilities, but does not have full n2k to PC capability at this moment. ---Need all the manuf codes and have to be a member for the documentation. Correct me if I am wrong please.

Wrong Rick: Kees has already reverse engineered a good part of the N2K sentences. See CANboat. And the OpenPlotter box brings the access to the CAN/N2K network.
N2K --> SK integration is work in progress at OpenPlotter.
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Old 16-09-2016, 17:03   #17
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Re: Signal K

Glad to hear that, but aren't their many diff manf with different numbers? I believe the list of translation would be considered incomplete if some of the main manf were missing... but thats quite an accomplishment nevertheless by Kees. How does he do all this plus radar?
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Old 18-09-2016, 00:54   #18
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Re: Signal K

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Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Wherever the core now depends on an NMEA sentence, replace it with a protocol agnostic data structure fed from any protocol specific input connector.
Revisiting this issue, that I just discovered: My initial start towards what has come to be Signal K was on my own boat with data from NMEA0183 and N2K.

I cobbled something together, then tried it on data from other boats with different equipment setup, and quickly realised that we need a shared vocabulary, so that the apps do not all need to do the mappings.

To me all the JSON, REST, WebSocket, full and delta stuff is auxiliary, necessary evil and the real beef is in the keys specification. The list is not perfect, but as far as I am aware it is the only candidate for an open source, shared data model in this area.

Appendix: Keys Reference Signal K Documentation

It would be absolutely wonderful if OpenCpn would embrace and extend this model!

See also https://github.com/SignalK/specification/issues/206
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Old 18-09-2016, 01:06   #19
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Re: Signal K

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Originally Posted by muttnik View Post
Whenever I ask "Where was that stated? I didn't see it on the Signal K google group?" The answer is usually "It was discussed on Slack.." so I won't ask :-)
We have clearly done a poor job of communicating if you feel this way. Sorry about that. With the limited time available for working on Signal K I personally have strived to actively respond to queries & work on moving practical things forward, at the expense of broadcasting of what is happening.

But we do have tried to be a good open source project in pushing the more than idle discussions to Github issues, where the discussion is more structured and can be tied to actual work on the specification and implementations.

So the best place to follow & contribute is the specification in Github: https://github.com/SignalK/specification/issues

If you feel some issue or another is not being addressed properly or you feel you can contribute why not poke around there.

Personally I'll try to do a better job of following Cruisers' Forum, taking after OpenPlotter people.
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Old 19-09-2016, 04:11   #20
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Re: Signal K

Quote:
Originally Posted by teppokurki View Post
Revisiting this issue, that I just discovered: My initial start towards what has come to be Signal K was on my own boat with data from NMEA0183 and N2K.

I cobbled something together, then tried it on data from other boats with different equipment setup, and quickly realised that we need a shared vocabulary, so that the apps do not all need to do the mappings.

To me all the JSON, REST, WebSocket, full and delta stuff is auxiliary, necessary evil and the real beef is in the keys specification. The list is not perfect, but as far as I am aware it is the only candidate for an open source, shared data model in this area.

Appendix: Keys Reference Signal K Documentation

It would be absolutely wonderful if OpenCpn would embrace and extend this model!

See also https://github.com/SignalK/specification/issues/206
Yeah, I agree. OpenCPN internally wouldn't need to convert JSON into C++ objects. A key/value concept would probably more useful and simple, e.g.
Code:
key=/vessels/244060807/navigation/position/longitude value=33.101
. Plugins could specify a regex to define what keys they are interested in, for instance. Also just copy everything from
Code:
/vessels/{ownid}/
to
Code:
/self/
.
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Old 19-09-2016, 04:15   #21
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Re: Signal K

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Glad to hear that, but aren't their many diff manf with different numbers? I believe the list of translation would be considered incomplete if some of the main manf were missing...
CANboat has 95% of all standard PGNs covered in some fashion. All "standard" ones are 100%. What's left to do is add company-specific ones and flesh out the recent media control PGNs. Donations (=PGN data) happily accepted.

Quote:
but thats quite an accomplishment nevertheless by Kees. How does he do all this plus radar?
Like computers do multi-tasking: one thing at a time. Most of the N2K reverse engineering was done in 2009-2012, with sporadic flare-ups since then. Radar plugin stuff is more recent, 2014+.
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Old 19-09-2016, 04:38   #22
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Re: Signal K

Thanks Kees and Teppokurki. Sorry if I got the goals, actors and projects switched.

Canboat = 95-100% of PGNs is great.
Signal K = Potential common regex for plugins which might help with messaging. Perhaps something added to the plugin api and communication that Jon G.has extended for Open-draw, watchdog and weather_routing?
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Old 20-09-2016, 05:38   #23
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Re: Signal K

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Originally Posted by teppokurki View Post
If you feel some issue or another is not being addressed properly or you feel you can contribute why not poke around there.
Note that this is a resurrected thread and my views on a lot of things have changed in a year. Notably I now better know how to drive github, have recognised that the old school concept of "IoT" has been replaced in the eyes of most manufacturers with a central server model similar to the SignalK concept, and as a necessity for a different project joined slack and have posted a few times on the Signal K channels (not, I think, to any great effect).

I wasn't aware that github was being used for more than the reference implementations: I'll check that out. On the slack side, it has seemed to be the primary discussion location. I'm not sure that's ideal given that it's not indexed by search engines, you need to sign up (albeit signup is free-as-in-beer) and, as I understand it, the discussions disappear after a certain time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teppokurki View Post
Personally I'll try to do a better job of following Cruisers' Forum, taking after OpenPlotter people.
You personally do a great job promoting Signal K on this forum and others, suggesting ways it can be part of a solution and encouraging people to get involved. If you're suggesting a Signal K thread on cruisersforum like sailoog's openplotter thread (although that may not be what you're suggesting), with the google group, slack and github already active I'm not sure that another hub for discussion is a good plan.
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