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Old 15-10-2013, 18:19   #46
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Folks...

Good & meaty discussion going here. I'm not following closely, though.

I await patiently the final,final list of shortcut keys to be implemented all at once for the next Beta.

I understand there are platform specific troubles with F6. But that does not change the definition of F6....

Dave
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Old 15-10-2013, 20:27   #47
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Quote:
well, I think if you mean "alpha-numeric keys" as single letters. they should have the CTRL, ALT, SHIFT keys added. That is to say, Windows does not use single letter shortcuts unless a menu window is open.

It'd be nice, is all, if OpenCPN could mostly "agree" with each and not step on toes as, say, for instance, using CTRL+V for something unrelated to "Pasting" in Windows...
Yes, you have a point. I would like to hear from others if we should be conforming to Windows standard for key shortcuts or not... ie no direct letter shortcuts, always Ctrl, Shift, Alt + key? -Obviously we have Linux and Mac users to consider too...so please speak up. I note that that the "Letter" keys are generally toggles, show/hide controling display and chart settings, so Ctrl,Shft,Alt + Letter is not much of a burden.

Quote:
The arrow keys could then be strictly used intuitively, as they mostly are, for panning and it's iterations.
Yes, agreed. Also we could use Shift+arrow and Alt+arrow key to have accelerated pan or 45 degree pans. - Please discuss.

If I understood the earlier idea correctly, Page Up and Page Down would be appropriate to use for changing chart scales for BSB, ENC which show at the bottom and CMP (a,b,c,d) which are there nevertheless. How do users feel about that change?
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Old 16-10-2013, 09:50   #48
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

(rick,what is "CMP (abcd)"? thanks.)

anyways
as to single letter keys,
  • A Show /Hide bottom features, useful when anchoring.
  • D Show /Hide CM93 Detail Slider. Hide only works, if the slider lost focus.
  • L toggles all Lights on/off. ENC Mariners Standard display category.
  • O Show / Hide Chart Outlines or F12
  • S Show / Hide ENC soundings.
  • T Show / Hide ENC Text. or F3.
these are mostly Vector chart operations (.... except, get rid of "O" because F12 does it already)
(...liberate the F3 key. There is already a Button for this as well-cripes-3 ways to do one thing)
propose add ALT or SHIFT for these,reserving it henceforward for Vector operations.This would go some way to sorting..


Quote:
Page Up and Page Down would be appropriate to use for changing chart scales for BSB, ENC which show at the bottom
......or just get rid of present duplicates.
  • F7 Larger Scale Chart (Scale In)
  • and get rid of or use for slow pan" Ctrl + Left-Arrow"
  • F8 Smaller Scale Chart (Scale Out)
  • and get rid of or use for slow pan "Ctrl + Right-Arrow"
presently, for me , this won't cross the line to Vector charts and only works as expected when quilting is OFF (peeve!). It's a Raster shortcut only.(I mean BSB Kap in case I'm losing anyone here)
Propose, F10 or a key combo such as SHIFT+V or ALT+V could be used to change back and forth from Raster to Vector charts as a quantum leap, because they are so different...
If you have more than one set of Vector charts, tap the F10 or key combo again..."cycle through" (tap,tap,tap) is in my opinion adequate therefore F10 gets my vote but open to argument, I know

and some might like a different letter than V ...B,R,S ...all good.
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Old 16-10-2013, 12:24   #49
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Quote:
Propose, F10 or a key combo
..or use the above-liberated F3

Quote:
Obviously we have Linux and Mac users to consider too...so please speak up
I was wondering about this too.
post4
Quote:
Please keep in mind there might be different keys in different OS, e.g. you will need the accellerator key "fn" for F keys in Mac OS X and Ctrl is the cmd key at Mac keyboards.
affects which badly? Is Ctrl a nuisance as in it evokes CMD window? So dump CTRL altogether, if MAC must use same keymap. Leaving SHIFT and ALT?

post10
Quote:
The new true/magnetic select feature may also need a "toggle"
.
need spares for future functions
post14
Quote:
need the ability to customize keyboard shortcuts for themselves
that's be too easy.

OK, I'm done. Keep up the noble effort!
OpenCPN Beta Version 3.3.1006 Released
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Old 16-10-2013, 15:36   #50
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Thanks Happy SeaGull, you're suggestions are registered. CMP should have been CM93.
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Old 17-10-2013, 01:21   #51
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Rick..
1.
Quit a job if you manage to put this discussion together but a table for comments(/voting?) showing what have been discussed so far would be nice. I must say I'm a bit of lost now.

2.
I somewhat miss the "space" or "Enter" function to drop a WP at actual position because that was easy to reach (and remember) when letting the anchor and use it for a anchor watch later on. When I say reach it's with respect to that I've the PC on the navigation table and need to reach it with one finger from the cockpit. But any single key press can do and be learnable.

3.
Another of my frequently used short cut is the "F2" to toggle auto follow. And for convenience matters I would like an extension of its function. That is to first give focus to OCPN and then auto follow.
The following example will hopefully explain what I mean: If I want to set a point to "navigate to" and set the autopilot in charge I often drag and scale the chart to find my desired destination. Then right click and select "navigate to" and activate the AP. Now I use to hit "F2" to centre the boat again but the focus is now probably in a route function so "F2" is without function. First I've to give OCPN focus by for example a click in the frame and then hit "F2" to toggle auto follow. But if the "F2" function completes to first give OCPN focus and then auto follow it would be comfortably.
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Old 17-10-2013, 06:08   #52
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Hakan, Thanks for your thoughtful input. Improvement to the Shortcuts would be a big asset to the user and there is significant opportunity here.

1. Your use/needs. These are certainly part of the equation, we are all users. We eliminated spacebar because of Gillatarom's bug (His wife evidently may have been hitting the key leaving a trail of inadvertent marks and we felt it was a main key that should be kept available, I am sorry you miss it. Let's figure out something that works for the activities that you have identified. ..centering chart on ship position, changing focus to enable autopilot "auto follow" and lets find the right key(s) for that, within the shortcut system.

2. Table - for voting/comments. I was thinking the same thing:
A. Spreadsheet attached -but that would not be easy to vote or add to.
B. Use tracker somehow- adding a Shortcuts project? This may be the best way.
C. Any other suggestions?

I favor tracker right now -Tasks, Comments, & votes. One task for each set of Opencpn Main Task Categories.

Settings & Setup
Hide Show features
Chart features
Vector Charts
Night Navigation
Operation
General, Emergencies & OwnShip
Moving the Chart
Zooming the chart and charts with different scales
Feature Properties Info
Routes
Ideas for the Shortcut organization above , ideas for comments, votes, & better ways of organizing this discussion are welcome.
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Old 17-10-2013, 06:53   #53
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Sorry to disturb this discussion.

But any professional application allows the user to define his own individual short cuts wether with an accelerator key or not. There might be however a default list, but let it to the user choice. So all problems are solved...
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Old 17-10-2013, 07:22   #54
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Dear CarCode, I respect your statement, but we a reliable programmer to help us do that, so I do not believe it is "in the cards", as my skills are not adequate and nobody has volunteered or been accepted by Dave to do the work. Naturally we aspire to "professional" however Opencpn is very respectable.
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Old 17-10-2013, 09:13   #55
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
One task for each set of Opencpn Main Task Categories.

Settings & Setup
Hide Show features
Chart features
Vector Charts
Night Navigation
Operation
General, Emergencies & OwnShip
Moving the Chart
Zooming the chart and charts with different scales
Feature Properties Info
Routes
+1 for this organization.
Serge
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Old 17-10-2013, 14:03   #56
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Rick..
1.
I agree that the "space"/"Enter" can accidentally create a lot of marks but I think a one-key operation to create a mark at the boats position is essential, not a ctrl+?? combination.
2.
For the organisation of this discussion I propose spreadsheet saved on a cloud where all can read it. I you can create and edit it upon discussions in this thread we will all be very grateful. There could be columns for present key(s) if any, your suggestions and divergent commands discussed here. And I do think you should present a suggestion for comments. Any voting procedure can be time consuming and very tricky to handle. When we have an agreed table put it to Tracker and Dave will hopefully be happy.
3.
Organisation of task categories is already done at opencpn.org so why not follow that? (Hot Keys and Shortcuts | Official OpenCPN Homepage)

Thanks for your efforts/Håkan
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Old 21-10-2013, 06:40   #57
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Hakan, I agree with #1, we do need a one key operation to create a mark at the boats position (I will explain why I think spacebar may not be the best choice) and agree with #2, and agree with #3 in principal (I'd like to see if we can improve organization too).

I will prepare the spreadsheet and put it to the cloud "Opencpn Beta File Thingie" for others to modify and upload. Currently I am helping a friend prepare a boat for transport south, and we leave about O23 so it will be a few weeks before I get to the spreadsheet.

Several things to consider about shortcuts (which we want to be very useful). From my experience with CAD programs shortcuts and keyboard macros:
1. Function Keys are generally changed depending on menu focus and context (Hit a function key for "Settings" for example and then the function keys F1-F0 are changed to match the needs of the sub-menu.
2. Singular keys like Alphanumeric keys do not change. Hit "E" for XXXX for example, it never changes and is "Context Independent". You always know "E" will take you to XXXX for example. For example, the shortcut commands for CAD tend to be very deep, so we had three main menus "E" for Edit, "U" for Utility and "D" for 3d commands.
3. Command -Settings Access - In the CAD program every command is accessible from the Function Key menu structure. It is a hierarchical structure, so to get to a particular command or setting you must hit successive Function keys working down through the hierarchical structure. We could get to all commands through the Fuction keys, or through more direct keyboard "shortcuts" which were used for even quicker access.
4. Keyboard Macros -User defined "Keyboard Macros" were entered into a text file as single lines. We used Alt+key for 26 key macros, if more are needed we could designate another key combination. Each line was a single keyboard macro, which simply identified the "Alt+Key" combination, had a brief message description, and then = and the shortcut commands with a + between.
5. Keyboard Macros - Prompting for User response - At times the keyboard macros required user response, entering a point in space, or text, and for those times, the macro had a pause command for user response and input, and that is when the spacebar and enter key become needed.
6. Opencpn System- I am not saying Opencpn needs this kind of command interface, and I do not know if it has the capability, but it is worth considering and thinking about as it may improve our interface. The shortcuts and function key menu system is defined and hard coded in the program, then there are Keyboard Macros using "Alt+key" to execute strings of commands. I can attach a sample keyboard macro file if you would like to see how it might work.
7. Thought and Comment Needed - I would appreciate your comments, because this kind of system requires discipline with respect to how keyboard "shortcuts" are implemented.
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Old 21-10-2013, 06:51   #58
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

Also See - Touch Screen Improvements Thread

Quote:
After a few hours of playing with OpenCPN on the touchscreen, I've come up with a few enhancement requests. The bulk of these are in flyspray, but I wanted to get them visible to so that I could see some other points of view.

1) Customizable toolbar buttons to suplement keyboard shortcuts (F6, S, Space Bar, Ctrl +, Ctrl -, A, L are the big ones for me).

2) Hide this chart directly above Chart Groups in right click menu. It would be nice to have a "Are you sure" conformation box come up to hide the current chart, to prevent issues with accidentally hiding charts.
Alternativly, increasing the font size of the right click menu could possibly alleviate this problem.

3) Not specific to touchscreens, but would be pretty neat - "Full Scale" button. Zoom in the chart to full scale - so that any smaller of a scale would be over zoomed. It would allow you to get the most accuracy from the chart, without over-zooming.

Any thoughts? Is any one else running a touch based system? I'm hoping to have an enclosure built for this rig in the next week or two, but time for on-the-water testing may be limited pretty soon (first baby's dew in about 4 weeks).
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Old 21-10-2013, 10:58   #59
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

re. Touchscreens

We have a DELL XPS18 AIO/Tablet PC with Win8 onboard.
First having an 18" screen is great.
Some gestures are fine with touch (zooming) but for a lot of items the touch resolution is too coarse.
The buttons are on the limit size wise (and I don't have big fingers), but even with a pen instead of the fingers it is no fun at all to set a mark or to outline a route. Works much more precisely with a mouse.
Would like to see this on a 10" tablet...

Hubert

Btw.: took some time to realize that right-click is just a looong touch
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Old 21-10-2013, 12:37   #60
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Re: Shortcut Keys List

I'm back!
Hey, keep it simple eh? I want to be able to do these with a beak.
IMO, the purpose of keyboard shortcuts removes the difficulty of playing with a mouse to hit a target-a real pain in a hurry.

What are the most important things to do in O in a hurry or just everyday? These should be one-key shortcuts.

Things-I-Do-A-LOT:
Changing charts
Panning, Zooming

and for Safety and Salvage
ManOverboard or a Mark-at-Boat to go back to


use the F keys, for the most important single-key items.

Quote:
I agree that the "space"/"Enter" can accidentally create a lot of marks but I think a one-key operation to create a mark at the boats position is essential, not a ctrl+?? combination.
...so, an F key can replace these.

F12 Show / Hide Chart Outlines is not a function I ,at least, need in a hurry. so re-purpose it for that. It's nicely placed at the end of the row.
But HOME key looks good for that too. ...if it's not Windows Keyboard specific?
(added: or HOME for Autofollow)
also,....propose, one-touch keys like PageUp/PageDown to be purposed for brightness, liberating two F keys.
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