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Old 27-08-2015, 07:19   #1
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"Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

I have been using O as a superlative planning system. Using a 23" 4k monitor and raster charts it has just about weaned me off paper charts -- something I never thought I would say, as a die-hard paper guy.

Now what would make my joy complete would be to be able to transfer routes and waypoints to my Zeus plotters. I have read the manual on the subject (The Route Manager and Gpx Data | Official OpenCPN Homepage) but I do not understand how "Send to GPS" actually works. It does not appear to be based on any 0183 sentences.

What data comms do I need in order to make this work with Navico (Zeus) plotters? Do I need two-way 0183 comms via an RS422/USB converter? Or will it work (somehow) with an Actisense NGW?

And while we're on the subject, I have never been able to receive any nav data from the boat network, either, although I have connected O with various means including (a) one-way RS422/USB converter connected to the 0183 output of a Zeus plotter; (b) GoFree via WiFi; (c) USB connection of my SiTex AIS. This is also important -- I would really like to see the active waypoint etc. on O while underway.

I am still working on the best data connection for O. So far I get the most data via GoFree and WiFi -- AIS comes through that way, heading, all instrument data, etc. But my computer can only make one Wifi connection at a time and I would like to be connected to the regular boat wifi (for weather etc.). And anyway I don't get any nav data even over GoFree. I'm hopeful that it might work with the NGW, but I'm uncertain whether that will allow me to send routes and waypoints.

Grateful as always for any tips!
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Old 27-08-2015, 07:34   #2
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

You might drop a mail to Actisense asking for their proposal.
There are different firmware versions for the N2K gateways available and perhaps they can tailor you a solution from their building blocks.
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Old 27-08-2015, 09:36   #3
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

I guess the key question is "how does 'Send to GPS' work?"

There are hints in this discussion concerning an analogous function in Coastal Explorer:

https://www.coastalexplorer.net/foru...t/topics/72888

"Does CE support the SENDING of PGN 130074?

For reference, this is defined as: 130074 - Route and WP Service - WP List - WP Name & Position

Curious as my Zeus B&G Chart Plotter supports receiving this PGN.

On a side note, when you use the 'Send to GPS' functionality in CE, and you select one of the various devices, is CE using the proprietary formats of those devices? Is there a 'device' that can be selected whereby CE just uses the standard NMEA2K PGNs to send data (specifically, PGNs 130064 through 130074)?

Thanks! Chris

07-Aug-2013 Rose Point Staff Member brad
Coastal Explorer does not support route transfers via NMEA 2000 at this time. However, neither does the Zeus Chart Plotter or any other chart plotter that we are aware of. PGN 130074 can only be used to transfer a list of waypoint names and positions, but not routes. In order to transfer routes, a device would need to most of the PGN's between 130064 and 130074.

Some of the devices listed in the Send to GPS window use proprietary protocols or proprietary NMEA 0183 sentences that Coastal Explorer supports while others simply let Coastal Explorer work around various limitations with that particular model (for example, some chart plotters can only handle upper-case letters in route names and some can only handle three-digit waypoint names).

Unfortunately, most modern chart plotters are incapable of exchanging routes with anything that was not made by the same manufacturer. Even those manufacturers that have defined their own proprietary protocols for this in the past have been removing that capability from newer models."


If the situation with OpenCPN is the same, then it sounds like there is no way presently to transfer routes, but some devices can receive waypoints, and in various ways.

So the question remains -- is it possible to send at least waypoints to a B&G Zeus plotter from OpenCPN using "Send to GPS"? If so, what type of communication is needed to make this work? And how does it work?

I am aware that I can just save as GPX file to a thumb drive and transfer it that way. Probably that's what I will have to do. But I sure am curious as to the capabilities of the "Send to GPS" command.
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Old 27-08-2015, 12:05   #4
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

If you go through the Connections and NMEA part of the manual you will find some hints how OCPN is handling the upload of routes and waypoints.

IF your system accepts N2K waypoints and routes (you say that yes) AND you can find a gateway which handles xxRTE and xxWPT NMEA0183 sentences then it might work - if your plotter does not expect some proprietary protocol.
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Old 27-08-2015, 12:52   #5
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

If you are creating the route on OpenCPN why not let it navigate too ?

Then you only need to get the navigation information from OpenCPN to your other instruments; That is much better defined.

Sounds like you are already using OpenCPN for AIS collision avoidance while underway.

Also, you might find switching to the Vesper XB8000 AIS unit might simplify and solve some of your integration problems.

Cheers,
JM.
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Old 27-08-2015, 14:24   #6
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
If you go through the Connections and NMEA part of the manual you will find some hints how OCPN is handling the upload of routes and waypoints.

IF your system accepts N2K waypoints and routes (you say that yes) AND you can find a gateway which handles xxRTE and xxWPT NMEA0183 sentences then it might work - if your plotter does not expect some proprietary protocol.
Thanks -- the manual is a bottomless font of knowledge.

So, if I understand the part on routes and waypoints correctly --

1. O just spews them out when you "Send to GPS". They are not sent as part of any other protocol.

2. They are sent as 0183 sentences, after all. Some devices will read and understand them, others not. No clues as to which ones.

Is that about right?


"Sending Routes and Waypoints to a GPS

The feature "Send to GPS", which appears in the right click menus for waypoints and routes and in the Route Manager, is not linked to connections. The upload port does not even need to appear in the Datastream connections list. Its a completely separate concept. For this reason users must define a separate upload port, that is remembered by OpenCPN. The port can be changed by clicking the button in the Route Manager.

NMEA provides no handshake protocol for Route and Waypoint upload. So, OpenCPN simply sends the Route/WP information out on the port, without having any way to know if there is actually a device connected to the port.
The Garmin protocol does provide handshaking, so OpenCPN can be sure that the information is uploaded correctly. The Garmin protocol will fail if the device is not a Garmin.

In the case of standard NMEA, the indication "Route successfully uploaded"
is not very meaningful. You can say that it just means that a port was found,
and writing to that port succeeded.

In the case of "hockey puck" GPS receivers, they probably ignore Route and WP uploads, since there is nothing for them to do with this information anyway.

The key to remember is that Route and Waypoint upload process is completely independent of normal running Datastream operation. They are two separate sub-systems.

It does no harm to assign the Datastream GPS port as an output and input device together. Some users might reasonably expect that this would be required for Route and W/P uploads. Most GPS receivers would ignore input sentences other than Route and W/P uploads anyway."
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Old 27-08-2015, 14:35   #7
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Thanks -- the manual is a bottomless font of knowledge.

So, if I understand the part on routes and waypoints correctly --

1. O just spews them out when you "Send to GPS". They are not sent as part of any other protocol.

2. They are sent as 0183 sentences, after all. Some devices will read and understand them, others not. No clues as to which ones.

Is that about right?

Yes, cause OCPN canīt know what the other side requires - or you implement an individual interface (some GARMIN stuff for example).

Thatīs why I suggested to ask Actisense what they can do.

SignalK can be another solution in the future. Does not take away the proprietary solutions of the APs to cope with.
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Old 27-08-2015, 14:45   #8
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
If you are creating the route on OpenCPN why not let it navigate too ?

Then you only need to get the navigation information from OpenCPN to your other instruments; That is much better defined., , ,
You mean that if I create a route, then use "Activate Route", then the whole route will be sent as 0183 nav data to the boat network?
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Old 27-08-2015, 14:55   #9
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
Yes, cause OCPN canīt know what the other side requires - or you implement an individual interface (some GARMIN stuff for example).

Thatīs why I suggested to ask Actisense what they can do.

SignalK can be another solution in the future. Does not take away the proprietary solutions of the APs to cope with.
OK, thanks. I'm starting to understand.

My Zeus will not read waypoints or routes 0183 sentences. So sending via the 0183 port doesn't look promising.

However, it will read PGN 13007 in N2K -- Route and Waypoint Service. Actisense NGW doesn't deal with any of these.

But maybe GoFree does, or could?? GoFree is giving OCPN good data including AIS, via a UDP connection. I am not getting nav data but maybe that's a matter of configuration. I can't find anywhere how this works.

It's a shame that OCPN doesn't speak N2K, over an NGT -- would surely solve all kinds of issues.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:14   #10
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
You mean that if I create a route, then use "Activate Route", then the whole route will be sent as 0183 nav data to the boat network?
When you tell a chartplotter to 'go to'/'activate route', it sends BTW, DTW, and XTE for WP1. It doesn't send the whole route. When you arrive at WP1, the chartplotter will then send the information to steer towards WP2. OpenCPN will do this, hence it will 'drive' the AP.

Sending a whole route is chartplotter to chartplotter speak.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:57   #11
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
When you tell a chartplotter to 'go to'/'activate route', it sends BTW, DTW, and XTE for WP1. It doesn't send the whole route. When you arrive at WP1, the chartplotter will then send the information to steer towards WP2. OpenCPN will do this, hence it will 'drive' the AP.

Sending a whole route is chartplotter to chartplotter speak.
Thanks -- and those are all part of the RMC sentence, correct?

I found information on how GoFree works:

http://www.bandg.com/documents/produ...epslanguage=it

It speaks 0183 which is why OCPN understands it. But still a mystery how I get AIS over it -- those sentences are not supported (at least the version described in this document). Interestingly, MARPA sentences are supported, but not AIS, and no routes or waypoints.
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Old 27-08-2015, 16:18   #12
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

I also just came up with this:

Data Sharing with Simrad GoFree

So in any case nothing can be sent to the boat network from OCPN via GoFree.

I can only send anything via the plotter's 0183 port, or with NGW if whatever is being transmitted can be bridged to N2K.
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Old 27-08-2015, 16:45   #13
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

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You mean that if I create a route, then use "Activate Route", then the whole route will be sent as 0183 nav data to the boat network?
No, as DotDun said after activating a route OpenCPN will continuously send information about the active leg of the route. What I was suggesting is that you let OpenCPN navigate the route instead of your chartplotter.

Your instruments should display this information and your chartplotter may even display the active waypoint.
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Old 27-08-2015, 17:14   #14
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
No, as DotDun said after activating a route OpenCPN will continuously send information about the active leg of the route. What I was suggesting is that you let OpenCPN navigate the route instead of your chartplotter.

Your instruments should display this information and your chartplotter may even display the active waypoint.
OK, got that.

So the short answer seems to be that "Send to GPS" is unlikely to work. And the only way to get the route onto the plotter and store it there, sounds like is to save as GPX data and transfer with a thumb drive.


Different question, but I wonder why I don't RECEIVE nav data (active waypoint) on O? I should have been getting it all ways.
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Old 27-08-2015, 17:51   #15
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Re: "Send to GPS" and Navico Plotters

Not all serial is 422. Plenty of equipment is 232. Easy to tell as you ca see 3 vs 4 cable. Try 232 converter see what pops on in terminal window.

Last time I had to "send to" was an oldish Raymarine C-something. But it worked as expected: set the receiving party to receive (if required) then press send to.

This send to thing is the same with e.g windows based wpt transfer. Should not give you any headaches except for making sure the signal is actually going (easy with a PC set as a receiver).

b.
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