Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-08-2016, 12:49   #466
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Orust Sweden
Boat: Najad 34
Posts: 2,427
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Rick..
True, it can for sure be made more sophisticated but for me those "simple" calculations gave me a "good enough" true wind indication. My use is for example when running by motor and you want to know if there's a reason to switch it off and hoist the sails.
Håkan
__________________

Hakan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 12:56   #467
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,216
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
That's not correct. While a purist (or a pedant) might argue that because you are sailing on the water true wind should be measured at the water's surface rather than the ground it's just a semantic quibble.
I don't agree that it is just semantics. One use of true wind data is to use a polar diagram to estimate what sail configuration and trim should be used to maximize a course made good. Polars are based on wind speed relative to a boat in water not on ground. It may not seem obvious but they are not the same. If the boat is making progress through the water but over ground it is moving differently the sails don't care about the ground. They care about the wind and the keel which is driven by water.

Another use of true wind data is to compare with Grib predictions. These are relative to ground and so using ground speed/direction is appropriate for that comparison. But the more useful data when sailing is wind relative to water.

Polars take into account leeway but perhaps not drift (but apparent wind takes into account leeway and drift). There is no perfect true wind formula that satisfies every requirement.
__________________

transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-08-2016, 13:35   #468
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Port Peirce, Florida
Boat: Allegro 33
Posts: 328
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
Hasse..
I'm aware of the discussion above but I use SOG, speed over ground, because I want to know the true wind over ground
I can see a point in using SOG since it is difficult to get good precision in STW depending on mounting, heeling and fouling.

To get the correct wind over ground don't you have to take in account the fact that your wind transducer is not pointing in the direction you are moving according to COG (leeway + current). Am I correct ?

The angle difference between COG and heading would off course be easy to calculate if you have heading info and make use of the WMM plugin.

This would give true wind over ground.

/Hans
hasse_A is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 05:33   #469
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 5,216
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

I agree that if the speed through water sensor is inaccurate then speed over ground would at least help compute true wind over ground. And true wind over water can't be computed anyway so there is no need to bother trying.

I suppose there is no reason not to have both types of true wind available. I'll think about it a bit and see if Dashboard can be coerced into providing computed true wind of both types. What would we name them to make the meaning clear?
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 12:36   #470
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Boat: MC-Tec, Akilaria 950
Posts: 233
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasse_A View Post
I had a look at true wind angle and wind speed.
As I understand it you have to input this info via NMEA sentence to have the meters show them.

A lot of us don't have this info accessible.
Would it not be possible to calculate it from apparent wind speed, wind angle and boat speed ?

These are much more frequently available.

If true angle and speed are not present the dashboard could calculate the values, otherwise use the supplied NMEA data.

/Hans
Hans,

give tactics_pi a try, it can do this calculation. It's based on dashboard_pi, they look the same and you can run both in parallel ...
Thomas
tom_BigSpeedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2016, 20:34   #471
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 12,639
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Thanks Tom, those are very good links and graphics.
Sort of responding to TDan and Hasse

To record a good polar diagram, the effect of drift and set, leeway need to be removed, For example trying recording your track while tacking up or downwind going against or with current! There is a huge difference.

Additionally, use of the polars, when you've got meaningful polars, they will provide more effective guidance (Targets) if the software can also include the effect of current and a meaningful estimation of leeway.

What I am trying to say, is I think it really does make a difference how you record your boat's polars and what values you use HDG/STW or COG/SOG and how you account for Drift/Set and leeway.
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2019, 05:10   #472
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 12,639
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Some earlier ideas for Dashboard (and Tactics)

TransmitterDan
Plugin: DashBoard

My 2 cents
Plugin: DashBoard

Here is a related Tracker #2087
FS#2087 - Improve and Streamline Creation of Instruments - Improved user control & creation.
Please log into tracker and vote for it.

There is also this Tracker #2273 suggestion about display of additional data. Which has not been considered or discussed much, but duplicates the Console and Active Window.

Perhaps when the dust settles more from 5.0 some of these ideas could be tried out by someone? - perhaps minus the messaging bus in Tracker #1933?
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 00:13   #473
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 73
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Some earlier ideas for Dashboard (and Tactics)

TransmitterDan
Plugin: DashBoard

My 2 cents
Plugin: DashBoard

Here is a related Tracker #2087
FS#2087 - Improve and Streamline Creation of Instruments - Improved user control & creation.
Please log into tracker and vote for it.

There is also this Tracker #2273 suggestion about display of additional data. Which has not been considered or discussed much, but duplicates the Console and Active Window.

Perhaps when the dust settles more from 5.0 some of these ideas could be tried out by someone? - perhaps minus the messaging bus in Tracker #1933?


A couple of early observations....

I would suggest that it is a good idea to let some plugins handle a function.

E.g watchdog have it do all the alarms plots do all the trending of data.

Say you create a wind speed indicator that has a setpoint for when a gust or smoothed averaged value of speed is exceeded it generates an alarm which watchdog then handles. Instead of loosing the data it is stored to disk so you can recall it and manipulate it.

To be honest i think a review of how data is managed stored or not stored is worth considering.

Looking at the raft of features being sought solutions are being considered it reminds me of how SCADA systems have evolved.

A lot of the features talked about are out if the box, the only thing needed is the NMEA protocol stack.

There are a lot of benefits to building a real time database for managing your information.

I was actually considering building a maritime SCADA project for a platform I have used for many years the only down side I could see was it is only available in windows, multi platform support being a casualty a few years ago:


Just some food for thought.
RonSouthworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 13:21   #474
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 12,639
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

I'd still like to see this kind of consolidated instrument in Dashboard


True-Apparent Consolidation

Also attached is an idea for True-Apparent, considering that Cog/Sog is ground based like true wind.
A 85 11.5k [d.brown]
T 108 12.1k [blue]



HDG 352 STW 5.0 [d.brown]

COG 348 SOG 5.2 [blue]
The brown and blue dials should be switched, because
blue= water reference
brown=ground reference.

This should improved for much better graphics and legibility


Plugin: DashBoard
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 07:52   #475
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 73
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
I'd still like to see this kind of consolidated instrument in Dashboard


True-Apparent Consolidation

Also attached is an idea for True-Apparent, considering that Cog/Sog is ground based like true wind.
A 85 11.5k [d.brown]
T 108 12.1k [blue]



HDG 352 STW 5.0 [d.brown]

COG 348 SOG 5.2 [blue]
The brown and blue dials should be switched, because
blue= water reference
brown=ground reference.

This should improved for much better graphics and legibility


Plugin: DashBoard


Swapping the dial arm colours hopefully is just a matter of a search and replace
RonSouthworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 09:51   #476
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 12,639
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Ron this instrument cluster does not exist yet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSouthworth View Post
Swapping the dial arm colours hopefully is just a matter of a search and replace
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 07:29   #477
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 73
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Ron this instrument cluster does not exist yet.


Future stuff I know mock ups are 90 percent of the effort
RonSouthworth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 10:58   #478
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 59
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSouthworth View Post
A couple of early observations....
Looking at the raft of features being sought solutions are being considered it reminds me of how SCADA systems have evolved.

A lot of the features talked about are out if the box, the only thing needed is the NMEA protocol stack.
If you are willing to look beyond OpenCPN you can today leverage a modern SCADA stack with Signal K Server, InfluxDB and for example Grafana.

Signal K Server converts NMEA data to Signal K format, giving each datum a semantic name.

Then you can write this data, essentially key-value pairs with well known keys, to InfluxDB with existing software, no coding effort/skills required.

If you prefer some other backend writing a plugin for your preferred solution is very doable. The conversion to SK stays the same, just the db integration changes. You can share the db specific logic in a cross platform plugin, installable with a single click from the SK server admin UI. There already exists one for Prometheus.

Then you are free to choose your visualisation and alerting component(s).

SK server plays nice with OpenCPN, providing for example conversion from N2K to NMEA0183, so you can get the live data also in OpenCPN.

Full disclosure: I am one of the primary authors of said SK server.
teppokurki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 14:49   #479
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 12,639
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

teppokurki


Thanks for the post, it is interesting, and you suggest


Ixia SCADA: DNP3 over TCP/IP Network Stack


SignalK GitHub SignalK https://github.com/SignalK/signalk-server-node



InfluxDB Github https://github.com/influxdata/influxdb



Grafana Labs Github https://github.com/grafana/grafana


My Reaction: ...In some kind of a soup of alphabets and programs. It is unlikely that any of us are inclined to try to utilize these resources without having some explicit examples that work, along with reasonably complete directions and support, IMHO.
Furthermore, are these programs free and Do they meet the OpenSource requirements?
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-05-2019, 23:29   #480
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 59
Re: Plugin: DashBoard

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Thanks for the post, it is interesting, and you suggest
No, please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCADA

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
My Reaction: ...In some kind of a soup of alphabets and programs. It is unlikely that any of us are inclined to try to utilize these resources without having some explicit examples that work, along with reasonably complete directions and support, IMHO.
The previous author was actually considering building a maritime SCADA project and my point was that by combining existing software you can get pretty far.

If you start with OpenPlotter you get OpenCPN and Signal K out of the box. Adding InfluxDB and Grafana is not overly complex, all you need to do is follow the installation instructions, but I admit there are no single page instructions for setting everything up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Furthermore, are these programs free and Do they meet the OpenSource requirements?
Yes, they are free and open source.
__________________

teppokurki is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OpenCPN PlugIn Development bdbcat OpenCPN 157 12-02-2019 18:12



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:59.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.