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Old 17-03-2011, 03:45   #31
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Piotr,
the current behavior is the result of FS#349 patch - it's the best logic I was able to come with... Which of course doesn't mean it has to be right.
Could you elaborate a little bit about the after-restart behavior you don't like? I don't see a problem there at least as far as I understand the desirable workflow.
Not much to elaborate on... it _looks_ like a bug
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Old 17-03-2011, 04:04   #32
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

But what? When I create two routes, sharing one previously existing waypoint, they share it even after restart. When I delete one, the other one stays connected to that waypoint. When I delete the other one, the waypoint stays. That's how I understand the workflow that's desired.

With import/export some more factors get involved of course - for example from GPX we are not able to say, whether the user wants the waypoint to be shared or not, to name one of the simple problems...
Any suggestions of course welcome.

Pavel
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Old 17-03-2011, 07:56   #33
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I thought I would give Opencpn a try , where do you get the charts. Do you buy them online ?

Sent from my iPad using Cruisers
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Old 17-03-2011, 08:29   #34
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Bennebobby,

you might have a look at Chart Sources | Official OpenCPN Homepage

But OpenCPN does not work with your iPad neither does the free charts.

Gerhard
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Old 17-03-2011, 16:03   #35
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Dave..

I am not able to change anything in the Dashboard from the Language/Fonts setup.
Having made the selection no change can be seen after hitting 'OK'
I am running Vista..

Tore
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Old 18-03-2011, 02:13   #36
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Tore,

Not sure what you mean...
- Changing Language (i18n) works for me after restarting OpenCPN
- You may still have old font token (text element) in the "font option" parameters. These are no more used (to separate config from core OpenCPN). You can configure fonts in ToolBox > PlugIns > Dashboard > Preferences > Appearance

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Old 20-03-2011, 15:22   #37
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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Originally Posted by nohal View Post
But what? When I create two routes, sharing one previously existing waypoint, they share it even after restart. When I delete one, the other one stays connected to that waypoint. When I delete the other one, the waypoint stays. That's how I understand the workflow that's desired.

Pavel
No, they don't share the waypoint after restart. Try this. Create route 1 with waypoints a, b, c. Create route 2 with waypoints e, b, f. When you add b to route 2 elect to "Use nearby waypoint". Now export both routes so you can reload them later. Then drag waypoint b around a bit. You'll see both routes are affected. Restart OpenCPN. When you try to drag waypoint b now only one route will be affected. If you delete both routes and import them again you'll see the same behavior. Both route run through waypoint b but neither recognizes the waypoint is in the other route.

To my thinking, the bug is that the two routes are modified when the waypoint is dragged around before the program is restarted. The behavior after restart is what is desired.

Guys, you've got to stop thinking of waypoints as objects that exist independent of their location. It's fine to use waypoint names to identify programming objects, but a named waypoint is not a navigational object. From a navigational point of view a named waypoint is just a shorthand way of referring to a location. When you drag a waypoint you're telling the program "Waypoint b no longer refers to x1,y1. Now it refers to x2,y2."

If you have two routes that run through the same location and you edit one of the routes to run through a different location, why should the other route be altered?

After restart there is a problem that remains. When you drag the common waypoint you have no way of knowing which route will be changed. There needs to be some mechanism for allowing the user to choose which route he wants to edit. One approach would be to pop up a menu listing the routes which pass through that waypoint so the user can choose the one he intends to edit. Another would be to require a route be placed in edit mode before its waypoints can be changed.

Fabbian
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Old 20-03-2011, 15:41   #38
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Fabbian,
to use your own terminology you were explaining to me last time - I was really talking about a waypoint, not routepoint as the entity that's shared between the routes...
Now I see what problem Piotr was referring to and will think about what can be done about it.

Thanks

Pavel
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Old 21-03-2011, 01:46   #39
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Fabbian,
to use your own terminology you were explaining to me last time - I was really talking about a waypoint, not routepoint as the entity that's shared between the routes...
Now I see what problem Piotr was referring to and will think about what can be done about it.

Thanks

Pavel
You got me. I tried dropping a mark, then creating two routes that went through that mark. Let's call the waypoint W1. The first route (R1) runs from R1P1 to W1 to R1P2 to R1P3. The second (R2) runs from R2P1 to W1 to R2P2 (use nearby waypoint R1P2) to R2P3.

Before restart when I dragged W1 around both routes followed. When I dragged R1P2/R2P2 around both routes followed.

After restart both routes still followed W1 but R1P2 and R2P2 were no longer linked.

Here's how I think it should work: When a route passes through a waypoint the coordinates of the waypoint should be copied to a route point. That route point should be independent of the waypoint whose coordinates it shares. If the route is edited it shouldn't affect the waypoint or other routes which might also run through that location. If the waypoint is edited it shouldn't affect any of the routes that run through that location.

I don't know how you design the user interface to make that clear to the user when there are a number of objects stacked on the same location. I'll give that some thought.

There's also the situation where you've created a waypoint and drawn a number of routes through it. Then you realize you put the waypoint in the wrong place and you'd like to correct the waypoint and all the routes which run through it with a single operation. That's a situation more likely to arise if you're entering coordinates than dropping marks on a chart, but one that needs to be handled.

When the user tries to edit an object you need some way to have him select the object he wants to edit if there are multiple object at that location. Maybe click-and-drag isn't the best approach to editing those objects. Would it be better to require a right-click and a context menu? It's a thorny problem. What do Mac users do when a right-click is required?

Fabbian
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Old 21-03-2011, 02:15   #40
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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What do Mac users do when a right-click is required?
They do a right-click, what else?
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Old 21-03-2011, 02:37   #41
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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They do a right-click, what else?
How do you do a right-click with a 1-button mouse?

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Old 21-03-2011, 02:44   #42
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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How do you do a right-click with a 1-button mouse?
Please have a look to the actually Macs.
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Old 21-03-2011, 03:36   #43
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
I don't know how you design the user interface to make that clear to the user when there are a number of objects stacked on the same location. I'll give that some thought.
Single point which, when clicked, spreads out graph-like to reveal all points at that location comes to mind. Like it is done for multiple Panoramio picture references in Google Earth, for example.

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Old 21-03-2011, 03:43   #44
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

Guys,
while I also have wild dreams sometimes, I will probably stick with fixing the bug Piotr found for now

Pavel
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Old 21-03-2011, 05:09   #45
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Re: OpenCPN Version 2.4 Beta Build 310

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I will probably stick with fixing the bug
Don't rush with it too much... I was mostly disturbed by the loss of consistency rather than a minor inconvenience. But... a small crack in the model may mean serious problems later on. I am now playing with split/extend for routes/tracks, and you run into problems quite fast there, considering sharing of points...
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