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Old 20-03-2014, 15:04   #91
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

I would like make an argument for a partially configurable user interface. I think the benefits are: 1.The ability to add new screen actions (like two finger touch) without disturbing current users and quickly satisfying the bleeding edge users. 2. Old users could keep their old and comfortable user interface and add new ideas at their leisure. 3. I think it would add a certain consistency to the user interface.

The problems are that it is probably a lot of work. Also I have never seen this done before; but why not dream big.

The user could configure for either a mouse or a touch screen and save multiple configurations. As an example I would choose the touch screen config for navigating and the mouse configuration for planning. Having a combination of both is too hard to think about, but, with a lot of conflict checking, might be possible

The following link should load a spreadsheet that attempts to show what it would look like. I never tried this before so don't know if it will work.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwqzqbsp2p...interface.xlsx
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Old 21-03-2014, 08:47   #92
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Good Morning....

OK, how about a show of hands.

1. Who has a Windows 8.1 Tablet, and what type/specs please?
2. Who might be planning on getting a Win 8.1 tablet for running OCPN?

I have Dell Venue 8, 32 GB. About $200 refurbished (ebay).

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Old 21-03-2014, 08:52   #93
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dell XPS18, W8.1
i7-Processor, 8GB RAM, 500GB HD, 32GB mSATA SSD
- works either as tablet or as PC with BT (Logitech) attached mouse & kbd
- is right now the boat PC with AIS/GPS input via USB
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Old 23-03-2014, 02:18   #94
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dave Does your Dell venue 8 with 32 gb have gps built in? I could not get a decent answer about that from online support.
If not, how do you plan to provide it? May buy one or one sumilar.

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Old 23-03-2014, 07:35   #95
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

rgleason...

No GPS in my Dell Venue, but there may be other Dell models to do contain a GPS chip of some type.

I will use WiFi on-board, retransmitted from my (admittedly over-complicated) internal wifi server.

Also experimenting with Bluetooth, but I'm finding that BT serial port support is still very fragile in Windows, even on 8.1

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Old 23-03-2014, 08:31   #96
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dave,

I hate to pick nits, but I think it's important in this case: You almost certainly have the Dell Venue 8 Pro, which has Windows 8.1 and no GPS.

Your omission of "Pro" would be trivial, except that Dell does have a model called the Venue 8, which runs Android and does have GPS. It runs the previous generation Z25xx Atom processor, so might be an interesting experiment for someone to try to load Win 8.1 on it and see if it works and sees the GPS. But with these tablets running as low as ~$200, there's no economic benefit to such a kludge.

I think I posted this elsewhere, but I have the Lenovo Miix2 8" tablet with 32 GB internal (and 32 GB microSD always installed). It has GPS chip, which can be enabled using GeolocationTCP software. But like Dave, my boat transmits its location, so I don't plan to actually use the internal GPS unless I'm on someone else's boat.

I'm not aware of any Win 8.1 10" tablets that have internal GPS, except for maybe some >$1000 models, older Windows RT models, and a bunch of Android tablets. Among the budget priced 8" tablets, there are only a few Win8 models that have appeared with internal GPS:
  • Lenovo Miix2 8" - really bright screen
  • Toshiba Encore - bulkier, but has microHDMI output
  • Asus Vivotab Note 8 - has digitizing pad
There are many others ones out there (like Dave's Venue 8 Pro), but these are the only three budget-priced Win8 tablets than I'm aware of right now with internal GPS.
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Old 23-03-2014, 19:13   #97
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Having used our new touch screen all day running O I'm more convinced than ever that there is really very little wrong with the touch screen capabilities of the software.

The only real issue I came on all day was dimming. I think the whole dimming thing needs work anyway. I never can remember which function key to use so I end up randomly pecking at keys in the dark or worse I turn on a light to see the function keys and lose my night vision because the only reason to use dimming is in bad light. There absolutely should be a menu item for screen dimming or at the very least a right click context item. If either of those were implemented then there would be no problem on the touch interface either.

Other than the dimming thing the two items I noted were some difficulty getting the correct context menu up for route activation - even with right clicks on the mouse I generally get the wrong context menu at least half of the time so that's really not a problem with the touch interface. Route creation is another problem using the touch interface but route creation without a mouse is a non-starter for me. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that so I can't see why you would waste time working it into the interface.
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Old 23-03-2014, 23:10   #98
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

I am running OpenCPN on an old work Lenovo laptop. I got a used ELO restaurant touchscreen off ebay for $100 to try out touch. I got the ELO screen as they are supposedly spill-proof for restaurant use. Even though it is installed in the Pilot House I figured that would be better than nothing. ELO has a little widget for right click.
I have not had to deal with running at night / dimming yet.
Early days but seems to work well.
Cheers, Neil
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Old 24-03-2014, 05:57   #99
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth View Post
...The only real issue I came on all day was dimming. I think the whole dimming thing needs work anyway. I never can remember which function key to use so I end up randomly pecking at keys in the dark or worse I turn on a light to see the function keys and lose my night vision because the only reason to use dimming is in bad light. There absolutely should be a menu item for screen dimming or at the very least a right click context item. If either of those were implemented then there would be no problem on the touch interface either...
Are you talking about O's "Change Color Scheme" button (F5)? It's already available on the tool bar or with the F5 function key.

If you're talking about the backlight brightness, that's more of an OS and BIOS issue. It is nicely supported under Windows 8 - just swipe from the right edge of the screen, tap the settings charm, and you have a slider to adjust screen brightness. No real need to add this feature to O's window...unless I've misunderstood what you're saying.
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Old 24-03-2014, 06:11   #100
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

There is also the dimming function :
Quote:
Night Navigation


Dimming the whole screen for Nighttime Navigation.

Use the F6 key for dimming and SHIFT + F6 to reverse the dimming.
This is not connected to a chart feature, and dims the whole display, not just OpenCPN.
"CTRL + G" cycles through (monochromatic) green, red and normal screen. The color change applies to the whole screen as well.
"Ctrl + G" may not work on some Windows systems, depending upon the graphics driver implemented.

When pressing F6 the word "MAX" appears on the screen in the NW part. Press again and the screen gets a bit dimmer and "MAX" is replaced by a "9" and so on.
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Old 24-03-2014, 09:35   #101
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

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There is also the dimming function :
That's the one. And - like I posted earlier - unless I happen to remember that it is F17 or F11 or F6 or whatever the hell eff it actually is, there I am poking random function keys in the dark with the fully lit display destroying my night vision as I blindly run over crab traps.

It should be available from the menus - having to remember function key assignments works fine for commonly used actions but night time dimming - fortunately - is not a common requirement for most users. And as near as I can tell anyway, function keys don't work worth crap on a touch screen.
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Old 24-03-2014, 16:14   #102
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobofthenorth View Post
That's the one. And - like I posted earlier - unless I happen to remember that it is F17 or F11 or F6 or whatever the hell eff it actually is, there I am poking random function keys in the dark with the fully lit display destroying my night vision as I blindly run over crab traps.

It should be available from the menus - having to remember function key assignments works fine for commonly used actions but night time dimming - fortunately - is not a common requirement for most users. And as near as I can tell anyway, function keys don't work worth crap on a touch screen.
I agree with Bob, anything available by either function key or short cut, should be available by menu. The only exceptions are those functions that are Windows only and Opencpn can't access them. This also helps to insure that all mouse and keyboard capabilities are available to the touchscreen user.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:19   #103
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

More fuel for the fire -

In playing with a W8 tablet I found what I call "edge swipe" - touch the edge of the screen and swipe towards the middle. It works from all 4 edges although the left edge seems to be reserved for Windows. One possible use for OpenCPN would be to retrieve the button row. Hiding the button row would allow more usable real estate on small screens. The button row could be on a timer or could have a hide button or both.

I could also see the dashboard activated the same way. Neat feature. I don't know if all W8 tablets have it.
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Old 26-03-2014, 20:29   #104
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

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Originally Posted by wdkester View Post
More fuel for the fire -

In playing with a W8 tablet I found what I call "edge swipe" - touch the edge of the screen and swipe towards the middle. It works from all 4 edges although the left edge seems to be reserved for Windows. One possible use for OpenCPN would be to retrieve the button row. Hiding the button row would allow more usable real estate on small screens. The button row could be on a timer or could have a hide button or both.

I could also see the dashboard activated the same way. Neat feature. I don't know if all W8 tablets have it.
Left edge is used for managing concurrent apps and setting up panes in the modern interface (one pane can be Windows desktop programs).

Right edge brings up the charms.

Swiping down from the top quits out of modern apps - appears to be disabled in desktop programs, so might be available for OpenCPN.

Not sure what swiping from the bottom does. Tapping there brings up the taskbar if you have auto-hide activated. But this territory overlaps with the chart buttons, so it's difficult to use auto-hide with OpenCPN.

Here's Microsoft's official word on gestures. Scroll down halfway to "Swipe or slide from the edge":

Touch: Swipe, tap, and beyond - Microsoft Windows Help
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Old 24-04-2014, 12:56   #105
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

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Good Morning....

OK, how about a show of hands.

1. Who has a Windows 8.1 Tablet, and what type/specs please?
2. Who might be planning on getting a Win 8.1 tablet for running OCPN?

I have Dell Venue 8, 32 GB. About $200 refurbished (ebay).

Dave
Maybe a little late

Asus Vivo Tab Smart Win 8.1

Am running OpenCPN. Had a problem getting GeoLOcation to give me SOG and COG. Solved with Centrafuse Localizer.
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