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Old 09-02-2014, 09:17   #61
bcn
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Curl,

interesting....
Can you give a bit more insights?

This is an OpenCPN cross-compiled for ARM(hf)?
Just an App under Android?
No need to install Linux - how is the GUI then handled?
How snappy is it? Zooming and panning (vector and raster) charts?
Where do you install charts (and OpenCPN)? SD-card? So no Nexus?

Hubert
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:08   #62
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baikal View Post
...The adoption of the idea seems to me to develop more successful CPN for monoblocks and large touch screen display.
For ergonomics control for touch screens of mobile devices need to redo all the control logic that CPN develop new application!
OK, I need some clarification on this. I have an 8" tablet - not a large touchscreen display.

I'm happy to do testing to help you guys, but it sounds like my input will not be helpful because you say you will have to redo too much and develop a whole new application. If that's the case, maybe I should not waste your and my time.

I'll restate what I've said before - it seems to me like O is already pretty close to the target on my Win8.1 tablet. Are you sure it needs to be totally redone? It seems some minor interface tweaks would make it almost perfect.

If you are willing to go a step further, what would be involved in porting to Visual Studio Express 2013? I think you currently use VSE 2010 for Windows, right? VSE 2013 could allow creating a version to run in the Windows Modern environment, which could make the program even more tablet-friendly.
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Old 09-02-2014, 14:53   #63
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

RhythmDoctor....

Your work studying OCPN on an 8" Win 8.1 tablet is right on track. These tablets will become more and more popular going forward, especially considering the advances in processor capabilities expected this year and next. I think it is in a sweet spot. More than a phone, less than a laptop. Pretty soon we can expect an affordable waterproof example...

Baikal is correct that OCPN on a telephone sized object is probably not very important. Phones don't have the storage capacity nor the display size to fully leverage OCPN. There are other Android solutions more properly scaled to this class of tablet, like MX-Mariner, for instance....

And OCPN on native Android is a distant glimmer...

I mean to get one of these 8" Win 8.1 beasts real soon now, and start the process of cleaning up the UI for multi-touch screen use. It has just been a matter of priorities.

Any hints from your research on which tablet to buy? Maybe best if I get something other than yours, to expand our available zoo population. I'm thinking Dell...

So, carry on. I'm following closely.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 09-02-2014, 18:40   #64
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dave,

I can understand the logic of getting a different tablet from me, since you need to cover as much of the diverse hardware offerings as possible, and different BIOS and other factors can affect compatibility. The Miix 2 8" is the only one I would buy right now, because of the bright screen for cockpit viewability and the internal GPS. But if you don't need both of these features, there are other options.

Dell Venue 8 Pro or Venue 11 Pro are good tablets with favorable reviews, but AFAIK, neither of those has internal GPS, which I think would be very useful for your development. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Miix 2 8" has internal GPS, but Microsoft only supports it in Modern apps out-of-the-box. The Geolocation TCP program that someone here wrote fixes that problem, but it would be EVEN BETTER to incorporate that into O so that it works natively. The issue here is that the GPS is on some new bus architecture that Win 8.1 apparently only supports in the Modern environment. The key question is whether this bus architecture is unique to Lenovo, or a new standard that future tablets will adopt. I have a feeling it's the latter, and if so, you really should get a tablet that supports that standard, since the GPS/tablet together will be a killer combination for O.

There are VERY FEW Win8 tablets with GPS right now. And the lack of Microsoft support for legacy Windows desktop programs causes there to be misinformation out there about which ones have it. There are numerous websites that say my Miix does not have GPS, but I've proven that it does. It's just that some reviewers tried to test it with legacy Windows navigation software (Microsoft Streets & Maps is one of the ones that Microsoft Windows fails to support - go figure!). I guess those reviewers didn't think to look in Device Manager.

I checked a list of Win8.1 tablets on Wikipedia (you know how accurate they are!) and they show the Toshiba Encore as having GPS. Some other reviews have noted this as well. The Encore gets dinged for being a little bulkier (thicker) than others, and screen brightness a little below average. It does have some higher end features, like microHDMI, which could make it very nice for configuring and debugging, since you can plug it into a monitor and have lots of real estate.

I am not sure how the Encore's GPS hardware is configured, but I have a feeling that the way my Miix does it is a new design standard that others will follow. I believe I read somewhere that the new bus design (I forget what it's called) is needed to support energy management features like "airplane mode" that all tablets and phones require.

So if I were to buy today, I'd say Toshiba Encore is your best alternative to the Miix 2 for an 8" tablet. The answer could change tomorrow.

You could also try 10" tablets, but I do not know any of them that have internal GPS, which I think you should really have.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:09   #65
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

This goes in the direction Dave would like to see:
Pokini*-*Pokini Tab A8

For April, IP65, no price yet. Screen is not yet full sunlight readable.
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Old 11-02-2014, 16:57   #66
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dave,

Following up on my lengthy note of a couple days ago (where I warned you that things could change quickly), the Asus Vivotab Note 8 is reportedly shipping now. Similar features to Miix and Dell Venue Pro 8. Like the Dell, it has a digitizing stylus. It also has GPS, which jumps this to the front of the pack with the Toshiba Encore.

So Encore has the microHDMI port that could make this easier to configure with a large monitor, plus GPS. Vivotab Note has digitizing pad, plus GPS. Dell lacks the GPS, but Dell will sell a LOT of them, so you'd cover a potentially large user base with that one.

You should try to find a Best Buy, Office Depot, Staples, etc. to try them out and see which one you like best. Take a portable version of O on microSD.
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Old 13-02-2014, 11:22   #67
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

I figured I would post this in this thread instead of making a new one since it is related.

I am curious is it possible to reskin the right click menu to be touch screen friendly or would this take a major sourcecode change? I have managed to get everything else so it is touch usable one my 12in toughbook using a auto right-click application except the context menu. Well I should say that it is useable just not pretty I have the windows settings for menus set to extra extra large so that it is easily selectable but I was hoping to be able to skin it.

Thanks,
yonu
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Old 13-02-2014, 12:23   #68
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

yonubear...

Thanks for your input.

Of course, the right-click context menu discussion is the nub of this thread. There will be some changes necessary to do a good, intuitive UI on a multitouch screen. We are working on this design now.

Tell us more about your setup, and maybe some screen shots, please.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 13-02-2014, 13:19   #69
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

well I will post some screen shots however they will have to wait as the toughbook in in the boat cabin at the coast and I am kinda snowed in across the state. however here is a screenshot from my testing Virtual Machine


well the setup is rather simple compared to most I am sure as I have it on a 24ft powerboat but I am running it on a military surplus toughbook cf-74 mounted to the console to be visible while underway that is supposedly water/shock/dustproof(I haven't tested the theory yet though) which is connected to the vhf to recieve the radios GPS and AIS this way I only need one gps antenna on the boat so far so good. As to the software it is running xp sp2 with everything set to extra extra large sizes I am also running a 720 HD camera off the same system as a dashcam of sorts I also have it setup so that all nav data backs up when the pc is on every eveing to SD card and if internet is available to my private cloud server. the engine is a 1968 carbed 302 so no engine data yet but I am in the process of making a circuit to read the senders and send them out as nmea data however I will worry about integrating that when I get the PCB built.

Thanks,
Yonu
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Old 13-02-2014, 15:18   #70
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

FYI, I also figured out how to increase the font size in Windows 8.1. Some features are disabled in effort to get you to pay for a Windows upgrade, and I thought that was the case with this. But the greyed out options were activated after I clicked some non-obvious checkboxes in the Font control panel.

Dave - I am glad to hear that you are thinking through the right-click implementation on a touch-screen. Looking over my prior screenshot, I still think one of the simplest solutions might be to add a menu item that simply says "Cancel", which would dismiss the context menu. But in cases where hover information is also present (like in my pic), canceling in this way would leave the hover information available to be viewed until a timeout period expires (or someone taps somewhere else on the screen). Intuitive, effective, and hopefully simple to implement.


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Old 18-02-2014, 06:26   #71
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
Curl,
interesting....
Can you give a bit more insights?
..........
Hubert
> This is an OpenCPN cross-compiled for ARM(hf)?
Compiled for armhf ( armv7l ).
> Just an App under Android?
Yes
> No need to install Linux - how is the GUI then handled?
The code includes a window-manager.
> How snappy is it? Zooming and panning (vector and raster) charts?
Snappy but not super snappy. a little bit slower than my laptop running windows.
A lot snappier than Opencpn running on Raspberry or Olimex A20.
But the screen I'm using is only a 4,3" (480x800) and that play a part of it I guess.

The option to configure buttons makes Opencpn work better than I ever thought, despite the small screen.
Screen "buttons" are also configurable ( also uses Opencpn's shortcuts keys).
2-finger gestures could also be configured to shortcut keys.
But I will get a 7"-10" tablet.
> Where do you install charts (and OpenCPN)? SD-card? So no Nexus?
Somewhere under /sdcard , /sdcard/download could be used, then use Opencpn->Option->Charts->Add Dir..
The Samsung I use has built-in storage of 16GB and the folder /sdcard have 11,5G of that storage.
Plenty of room for my chart needs.

I can send you the app (one apk file ) then you could try it out,
contact me via a PM.
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Old 18-02-2014, 09:21   #72
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Curl...

Sorry, I'm still confused.

This is a native Android app (with .APK) that runs OpenCPN without rooting or internal VPN?

I'm very interested. Please tell us more.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 18-02-2014, 09:37   #73
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Curl...

Sorry, I'm still confused.

This is a native Android app (with .APK) that runs OpenCPN without rooting or internal VPN?

I'm very interested. Please tell us more.

Thanks
Dave
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Old 22-02-2014, 11:15   #74
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

One idea could be, have “GUI” plugins.
Run Opencpn without “front” GUI and load “front’s” for different platforms.
Today a Java front GUI sending “shortcut keys” to Opencpn work’s quit well on Android.
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Old 22-02-2014, 11:27   #75
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

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Curl...
This is a native Android app (with .APK) that runs OpenCPN without rooting or internal VPN?
Dave
It's a apk, no rooting or internal VPN needed.

Dissected how Navionics had built their app and copied their implementation.
Use Android NDK tool to compile java to run bytecode in the Dalvik VM.
Use Android NDK tool to compile SDL libraries to be loaded at runtime.
Simple DirectMedia Layer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Has NDK and Android SDK running on Linux and uses NDK/SDK to include
Opencpn in the apk package together with java code and libraries.
In the package I have a "helper" program that makes Opencpn find path's
and libraries in the Android filesystem.

Sorry for the late reply have been traveling,will travel the next 2 weeks also
Android implementation is a bit OT from "OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen"
Perhaps a moderator could move this answer to a new thread?
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