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Old 21-12-2013, 08:43   #46
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

David, can you, along with some others thoughts above, post to the new project, using "Objective" as the first word in the title, your list above? To get this rolling. Thanks.
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Old 21-12-2013, 15:28   #47
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
David, can you, along with some others thoughts above, post to the new project, using "Objective" as the first word in the title, your list above? To get this rolling. Thanks.
rgleason

I entered a set of objectives. I put them in separately so that others could add to the list. I'm a little confused about the difference between objectives and constraints e.g. Objective 4 & 5 seem to be both. Maybe it would be OK to add Objectives and Constraints initially.
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Old 23-12-2013, 22:24   #48
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

I dropped by Office Depot this evening with a portable version of O on microSD, so I could try it out on their tablets. I came away very impressed with just how little needs to be done to make this program tablet-friendly. I consider it very usable as-is, especially since I can attach a mouse or keyboard when I want to plot routes.

I am so impressed that my next computer will definitely be a Windows 8 tablet, specifically so I can run O. In fact, I can't wait to get a tablet to run it, because I think it will be a fantastic combination. I just need to wait awhile for a bright screen to become available, since I do use this in the cockpit when conditions are dry.

I am aware of some of the issues with scrolling the chart while plotting a route, and that should be addressed somehow (though you can attach mouse or keyboard, as I mentioned above). But for the most part, the current UI design with button icons to be clicked by the mouse works very will for tapping with a finger or stylus.

There are a few complaints that have been brought up about the current design that I believe are not justified. The complaint about tapping on a chart recentering the chart where the tap took place is a feature, not bug, and it works exactly the same with a tablet that it does for mouse-clicking. If you accidentally tap on the screen, just tap on the "own boat" icon to re-establish Auto-follow. This feature makes it very easy to scroll along a creek or river half a screen at a time.

Somebody else complained about the right-click emulation (click-and-hold on the tablet) being difficult in rough seas, because it's difficult to hold your stylus still for that long. If your tablet accepts finger-touch, you could press your finger down instead (friction of skin against glass should hold it more steady), and then use the stylus to select the command from the drop-down menu.

I agree that toggling course-up and north-up modes would be much easier by converting the north arrow into a button. In fact, I could swear that feature used to be available in an earlier version of O (maybe version 2.5?). I would support adding this in to 3.3, since it adds no clutter to the screen. But even without this feature it only requires a couple taps to accomplish the same thing.

I have never been a real big proponent of hotkeys in O, but I can see that it could avoid moving your hands off the keyboard to grab the mouse or manipulate the trackpad. However, using a tablet should make tapping the screen preferable to using a keyboard, so I would encourage using on-screen button icons instead of keystrokes. An emulated escape key would be helpful for ending routes. And even more button icons would be fine, especially if you continue to make the button bars configurable to eliminate icons that a user considers unnecessary.

By the way, on the Win8 tablets that I tried, pinch-to-zoom worked fine, and tapping the + and - icons worked well too. PLEASE do not go cluttering up the screen with a bunch of slider bars. Your interface is so much cleaner than Garmin's software - let's keep it that way.

Also, even on the Asus T100 (Atom processor), activating OpenGL graphics made a HUGE improvement in screen updates. Tapping and dragging to slide the chart around was very jerky without OpenGL, but perfectly smooth with OpenGL.

On of the great benefits of using a tablet is the ability to do portrait mode. When underway, I use OpenCPN in north-up mode, and want to see as far ahead as possible. Current laptop technology has wide screen displays in landscape mode, which is the opposite of this. The ability to turn the tablet into portrait modes is great for a chartplotter application. However you should be aware that the dashboard plugin can disappear off the side of the screen if you are not careful. If you set it up in landscape mode on the lower right corner of the screen, and then turn the tablet into portrait mode, the dashboard can completely disappear. Rather than specify its location based on absolute pixel coordinates, it may be better to specify the dashboard's location based on relative pixel coordinates from the nearest horizontal and vertical window boundaries.
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Old 24-12-2013, 09:05   #49
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

I just did 5 min research, obviously not enough, but please add your knowledge here.

The majority of current tablets are touch or stylus, not both. There is currently a tablet that has touch and uses a foam tipped stylus. I'm not sure that this would be good enough for routes but certainly better than a finger. HP seems to have something like this with a better stylus, so maybe the next gen will be acceptable. I think systems with touch/stylus have a smaller market and therefore will cost more.

At this time I (like RhythmDoctor) think we can handle ease of use issues with user configurable buttons. I envision a single function button (e.g. F11 or some shortcut that's not easily accessible) and a button that invokes a menu of functions. (e.g. Ctrl B - Toggle Chart Bar, L - Toggle Light Detail, O - toggle Chart Outline)

I'm guessing that most of us don't use shortcuts, but I might use a few if I had menu access to them.
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Old 26-12-2013, 08:41   #50
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Let me remind you about the uselessness of the shift function chart when you touch the screen the left mouse button. I think that you need only move the map by clicking and holding the left mouse button or finger on the touch screen. So to speak at your fingertip control. This will prevent such inconvenience as reset auto-follow, and allow to make fewer unnecessary manipulation of pressing buttons to navigate in real time and accidentally pressed on the screen.

Sketched the idea of ​​replacing the context menu when you right-click that can be effective as a touch screen and a mouse.
Clicking on the chart screen or object appears in front infobox with icons, text field can be either a button to open the object properties window.
Not included command such as the list of AIS targets anchorage control radar, etc. you must move the submenu toolbar
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Old 02-01-2014, 09:11   #51
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Here’s a trial balloon.

I would like to propose a Button Creating Facility to enhance the Function/Shortcut keys, or at least provide better access from touchscreens. It provides better access for keyboard/mouse users for those easily forgotten shortcuts. And it helps helps manage screen space as OpenCPN continues to grow. It also leaves in place the current shortcuts/functions for those that are using them.

I couldn't figure out how to mock this up so will have to rely on a narrative. It would look like the chart group facility. In the top panel would be all (most) of the shortcuts, clicks and function keys. The Shortcut/functions would only need to be included once. Many/some are questionable as there is nothing simpler than a single or double click.

This said, not everyone likes the action of the single click on a chart (or at least its side effect) and it could be made optional in Tools>Display. I can argue that a click and drag is more universal.

One would create a new button that would be added to the button bar by clicking on “New Button” , selecting a name (single letter) for the button and then selecting a function/shortcut and pressing the “Add” button. This is analogous to creating a chart group with a single chart file.

If only one function is added to the button it is a single press function. If multiple functions are added then the single press gives you a context menu and you select which function that you want from the list. Some functions would be persistent (e.g. Ctrl + and -) and would need a slinle click off the menu to end the function.

I would like for the right click to be included. It and any other position dependent function would require a button press and a single touch/right click at the appropriate location.

One big issue I see is that touch screens generally have smaller screen sizes, and these buttons would take up more screen space. A lot of Ipad aps have a menu symbol. Perhaps we could have a selectable set of always on buttons and a set that are lit up by a menu2 button. Or perhaps we could have a two mode system with a planning mode and a navigation mode with a user selectable set of buttons for each. In planning mode you don’t need AIS, Auto Follow, Tracking, Dimming, MOB, but you may need a lot of short cuts. For Nav mode you need AIS, Auto Follow, Tracking, Dimming, MOB, fewer (and different) shortcuts, but not Climatology, GRIBS, Weather. All functions would be available in either mode but some would require a single key press and some would require more.

I really have no idea how difficult this would be to implement and frankly I think there may be more pressing problems, but I offer this as a solution to the shortcuts problem and also future additions to OpenCPN.
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Old 05-01-2014, 18:43   #52
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

wdkester, baikal and rhythm doctor's posts acknowledged, very good.

Here is a Shortcuts post you might want to think about and comment on
Shortcut Keys List

It seems the two threads are separated by keystrokes vs mouse clicks.
--Question: Is the sea too bouncy to use simple single or double keystrokes to prevent errors?
--Question: Is the mouse right, left and center click easier to use in a bouncy sea?
--Question: With tablet why use fat fingers instead of a stylus in a bouncy sea?
--Question: To what extent will adding buttons for tablets, reduce screen area?
--Question: For tablets, why not use a waterproof bluetooth keyboard or something similar? Maybe a mouse?

It seems like you are all making headway on the tablet problem. Thanks.
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Old 06-01-2014, 08:51   #53
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

from rgleason -

It seems the two threads are separated by keystrokes vs mouse clicks.
--Question: Is the sea too bouncy to use simple single or double keystrokes to prevent errors?
--Question: Is the mouse right, left and center click easier to use in a bouncy sea?I think mouse clicks are reasonably easy to use in a bouncy sea. Building a route could be a little schetchy.
--Question: With tablet why use fat fingers instead of a stylus in a bouncy sea?
I havent yet tried to use fat fingers, but I often readjust WP made with a stylus; so I don't think I could do an acceptable job with fat fingers. If I were using an IPAD in the cockpit and needed to adjust a route I think I would try fat fingers before going below and messing around, especially if single handing
--Question: To what extent will adding buttons for tablets, reduce screen area?
Depends on screen size and # of buttons added. For a IPAD mini I would like to reduce the # of buttons to one row in the small dimension. Better yet would be a single button to toggle that row of buttons.
--Question: For tablets, why not use a waterproof bluetooth keyboard or something similar? Maybe a mouse?
I have tried a waterproof keyboard and I really don't have a good place to put it. I was going to make log entries while still in the cockpit and not have to run a second belowdecks system. I gave up and didn't keep a log. I have also tried a mouse in the cockpit. You need to keep it dry and need a dry surface to roll it on, but it's much easier to manage. My previous tablet had an active stylus that allowed both right and left click touches. Ideal. I have not tried the "presenters" mouse but think that would work quite well too.
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Old 06-01-2014, 13:37   #54
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

David, Thanks that is helpful for understanding the situation, I am sure others will have thoughts.

You mentioned wanting to make a log and I thought of something... Our new Samsung S4 phone has very good speech recognition maybe that or an Ipad used out of the wind in the companionway would work ok, but there is no written record. Don't you want it in writing for easy ref?

Perhaps speech recognition for Opencpn Commands would work somehow, but the wind might be a problem depending on where it is located.
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Old 11-01-2014, 21:35   #55
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
...I personally want to get OCPN working well on mainstream tablet machines. And for that we will need lots of hardware availability..
Dave,

I think that the accelerating appearance of Windows 8 tablets is going to make this a very attractive growth platform for OpenCPN, and time invested in optimizing for them is a good investment.

One thing that others may or may not have mentioned is the fact that mouse-over is impossible for a touch tablet (unless you add a mouse). So certain things are not currently available on a tablet, like the AIS "rollover" function, and the help tips when mousing over the buttons. I can live without those things, especially since double-clicking or double-tapping brings up full AIS details. But if others don't want to lose those features, it may need some thought around how to replace it. Could there be a finger gesture available to emulate it?

Another thing that is missing is mouse-wheel scrolling for zoom levels. This is missing from laptop touchpads also, so I am used to doing without it. But Google Maps on Android has implemented double-tap-swipe up/down to zoom out/in. Perhaps such a gesture for zooming on maps would be useful to have. (For all I know, maybe Win8 supports this at a system level by emulating a scrolling mouse wheel. I have too little tablet experience to know at this point.)

After holding off buying the Asus T100 tablet due to concerns over screen brightness, I'm about to finally "pull the plug" on a Windows tablet. IMO, one Windows 8 tablet stands out among the crowd right now. The Lenovo Miix 2 has gotten pretty good reviews among the 8" tablets. Its screen is by far the brightest of any current Windows tablet (and equal to the best 7-8" Android tablets), and it came up even brighter than my current netbook at an in-store test tonight. I look forward to being able to run O in portrait orientation with 1280 vertical pixels for look-ahead mode. So I think I'm going to buy it, and will then have more feedback for you.

Interestingly, the Miix 2 also has a GPS chip embedded. I have my GPS and AIS transmitted via Bluetooth on my boat, so I don't need the GPS chip. But its presence in the Miix 2 could really "seal the deal" for others, and will also make this tablet very useful for me to take along when I do charters.

The combination of a $250 8" tablet with built-in GPS and daylight viewability running OpenCPN could make handheld GPSs (like my trusty Oregon 400c) obsolete.

If you decide to pick up a tablet for testing OpenCPN, you might consider the 8" Miix 2, or possibly the upcoming 10" or 11" models.

FYI, I really have no need for a tablet at all, except for running OpenCPN. Window8 is the only tablet OS right now that will run it (I'm not up to hacking Linux onto an Android tablet), so I've restricted my shopping to Win tablets. And while there are some nice Android and iOS chartplotter programs, none of them display AIS targets. So you your program offers me a unique and compelling combination of features, which I look forward to continuing to use. (FWIW, I've donated a couple of times over the last 3-4 years.)
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Old 12-01-2014, 09:55   #56
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Through a little playing with O this morning, I realized that "rollover" aka "hover" functionality is more widespread than I realized previously, and potentially an issue for touch screen optimization. There is pop-up info for route information, and also the really nice extended light sectors on vector charts. (I am finally starting to like vector charts now that you've rounded off the depths to feet with no tenths digit.)

This is a fairly common issue for many programs and websites. I believe that IE11 has implemented some tools to address this, but I have no experience with that. I found a couple of websites that discuss the issue - see bottom of this message for links. There is a widespread misconception that tap-hold emulates hover, so many inaccurate answers to users' questions based on this. There is no question that tap-hold emulates a right click, not a hover. There is also some discussion that a stylus can do a hover, but I did not see clarification over whether this is an active stylus or just capacitive stylus. Most of the tablets coming out now do not support active stylus, so it might not be best to design active stylus support into O.

Someone else has suggested an onscreen button to toggle the effect of a touch event, so as to turn off the center-to-tap default. If this toggle simply repositioned the cursor to the point of the tap, that would accomplish a hover emulation. So that is a possibility.

Another possible workaround that I personally favor is to add a "Hover" or "Rollover" command to the right-click menu. Then a touchscreen user could tap-hold to emulate a right-click, then select "Hover" from the context menu that pops up. It's a little less elegant for the user, but it provides a consistent interface element that would work for every rollover function. Of course, then you have the question of how to turn off the "Hover" event - perhaps you just put a 3 second timer on it, or require a user to tap on the pop-up info.

Another emulation for hover might be a tap-tap-hold (like tap-hold, but preceded by a tap). This would be very elegant once the user learns how to do it, but would pose a training challenge since it's not intuitive.

Does all of this make sense?

Here are some of the discussions that I found on the topic:

https://www.google.com/#q=windows+8+...hover&safe=off

How to simulate hover on touch-enabled devices (Windows)

Disabling 'hover' in Windows 8 Simulator in Touch mode - Stack Overflow

Responding to mouse interactions (Windows Store apps using JavaScript and HTML) (Windows) (scroll down to "hover")

windows 8 - Equivalent of mouse hover on a touch screen - Super User
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Old 30-01-2014, 20:00   #57
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

test version without opencpn shift function maps to the center of the screen when you click the mouse
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0uhozgus7db241k/vcWJ66vXV5
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Old 08-02-2014, 14:38   #58
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Work commitments have prevented me from commenting over the last couple of weeks. I have done a lot of testing and configuring of OpenCPN on my new Lenovo Miix 2 8" tablet, and have a few things to comment on.

First, I'll repeat what I said before that O works surprisingly well in a touchscreen environment as-is. I think that this is a combination of clean interface by O's developers and good mouse emulation at the system level by Microsoft. It's not perfect, but very close, and definitely workable.

I picked up some generic pen-style styluses for use with the Miix, and they definitely enhance the user experience. There is no fancy pressure-sensitive support like on digitizer pads, but using a little rubber tip definitely improves the accuracy of touches, especially with Windows programs that were not designed for touch. The little buttons, ship icons, vector features, etc. are much easier to tap accurately with the stylus. I found a set of 5 retractable stylus/pens for $5 online, and also got one for free a convention. The fact that these styluses are now so ubiquitous signals a huge move to tablets.

Also, I need to correct an erroneous statement that I made previously:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhythmDoctor View Post
...There is a widespread misconception that tap-hold emulates hover, so many inaccurate answers to users' questions based on this. There is no question that tap-hold emulates a right click, not a hover....
It turns out that tap-hold can emulate right-click OR hover OR both, depending on the environment. I don't know enough about Windows programming to know whether the "environment" can be adjusted by application programmers (perhaps with an app-specific registry setting), or is controlled by Windows system alone.

But from my observations, I would say that in the OpenCPN environment, a touch-hold emulates BOTH right-click AND hover. This picture demonstrates that, and also shows how the two pop-up features sometimes overlap each other.



I do not mind having both of these pop up with touch-hold, but the program needs to have some awareness of the position/size of the context menu (right click emulation) so that the AIS rollover feature (hover emulation) will be placed in a way that both can be seen. One important note is that Win8.1 Tablet PC Settings has a "right-handed" vs. "left-handed" setting which affects which side the menu appears on when you do tap-hold. Windows also adjusts the menu position if the tap is near the edge of the screen. So any adjustment you do to the placement of hover information has to take this into account.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:05   #59
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Have done some changes to Opencpn and now has it up and running on
Android devices.
Wrote some “helper” programs to enable Opencpn to run on non rooted
devices,using internal GPS. No need for any Linux deploy either.

Samsung S2 mobilphone showing some Gui changes I’ve made.

Click image for larger version

Name:	SamsungS2.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	144.6 KB
ID:	75578

1) Ordinary StatusWindow and CompassWindow replace by this Bar.
2) All floating (Rollover) texts are shown here.Then you also get a
confirmation that you rolled over something with our fingerThe "pixelRadius"
for selecting a object has been increased 3 timed.
3) The volume buttons are used for Zoom IN and Out ,
4) Ab is keyboard popup, the Opencpn buttons are enlarged
5) Opencpn Right click button, the PopupMenu are shown at same place
every time.
6) AutoFollow, now is tapping on the chart off ( not sure if I keep it this
way),
You can can rollover,inquire,zoom .. . But you can't measure or draw
/change a route.
To release hit AutoFollow or the "pan" buttons at 9.
7) Esc button ( Not sure if needed).
8) No "green" arrows. No pan at boarders ,No "autopan" when drawing a
route ( use pan keys at 9 and volym buttons to zoom ).
Mouse (left button) : first I disabled drag,hade only tap, but drag is
needed when "editing" a route or to move a waypoint.
To activate drag the mouse (finger) has to be hold down for 1 second.
A tap on the chart centers that point to the screen ( not in AutoFollow).
9) Pan buttons.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:30   #60
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Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by curl View Post
Have done some changes to Opencpn and now has it up and running on
Android devices.
Wrote some “helper” programs to enable Opencpn to run on non rooted
devices,using internal GPS. No need for any Linux deploy either.

Samsung S2 mobilphone showing some Gui changes I’ve made.

Attachment 75578

1) Ordinary StatusWindow and CompassWindow replace by this Bar.
2) All floating (Rollover) texts are shown here.Then you also get a
confirmation that you rolled over something with our fingerThe "pixelRadius"
for selecting a object has been increased 3 timed.
3) The volume buttons are used for Zoom IN and Out ,
4) Ab is keyboard popup, the Opencpn buttons are enlarged
5) Opencpn Right click button, the PopupMenu are shown at same place
every time.
6) AutoFollow, now is tapping on the chart off ( not sure if I keep it this
way),
You can can rollover,inquire,zoom .. . But you can't measure or draw
/change a route.
To release hit AutoFollow or the "pan" buttons at 9.
7) Esc button ( Not sure if needed).
8) No "green" arrows. No pan at boarders ,No "autopan" when drawing a
route ( use pan keys at 9 and volym buttons to zoom ).
Mouse (left button) : first I disabled drag,hade only tap, but drag is
needed when "editing" a route or to move a waypoint.
To activate drag the mouse (finger) has to be hold down for 1 second.
A tap on the chart centers that point to the screen ( not in AutoFollow).
9) Pan buttons.
No need to complicate your life!

There are affordable paid navigation software for mobile devices Jeppesen Plan2Nav, Navionics, NavPlay, iSailor
The adoption of the idea seems to me to develop more successful CPN for monoblocks and large touch screen display.
For ergonomics control for touch screens of mobile devices need to redo all the control logic that CPN develop new application!
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