Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-12-2013, 04:19   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Had to read that one twice...I think you mean analogy ie similarities between apps.

I'm a newbie to Opencpn and not a developer so not sure I'll be the one coming up with the solutions.

I know understand the creating rout issue with a touch screen ... yeah its a pain that the tablet considers a screen touch as a left click and not just a movement of the cursor. Hence the screen auto recenters an dragging the pencil icon in route planning doesn't pan the map.

Will try with a different VNC software to see if the behaviour is the same
__________________

__________________
mhasting2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 04:30   #32
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

With akRDC you can define what the screen touch does (left right or center click) but its not very user friendly like a mouse on a pc.

Maybe the easiest solution is to use a bluetooth mouse for route planning.
__________________

__________________
mhasting2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 04:54   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Baikal
Posts: 270
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Plan route think easier in a relaxed atmosphere at the pier . There really is possible to use the mouse .

But that's often used for navigation controls believe that should be adapted to the touch screen.
Such as:
1. rescaling
2 . regime change map orientation
3 . Set a course here
4 . measurements
5 . Weather
6. Drop Mark

Most likely something from the context menu will move to the main menu interface for quick access.
Will also be useful submenus grouped icons additions ( as pictured above)
__________________
Baikal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 05:01   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Never mind..... you can switch input modes on bVNC pro so when you want the same functionality as a mouse for route planning just select the touchpad mode. Yeah!

I would assume that similar apps are available in iOS and Windows8 / tablet


I agree Baikal having more accessible buttons like that would be good.
__________________
mhasting2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 08:18   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: Irwin 37 CC
Posts: 660
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

There are some underlying assumptions in the above discussion (also including shortcuts threads)

1. It should be, easy or possible (pick one), to operate OpenCPN (all functions with a mouse and keyboard.

2. It should be, easy or possible (pick one), to operate OpenCPN (all functions) with just a keyboard. I think this is where the shortcuts come in.

3. It should be, easy or possible (pick one), to operate OpenCPN (all functions) with a finger style touchscreen.

4. It should be, easy or possible (pick one), to operate OpenCPN (all functions) with an active stylus touchscreen. If this is old technology I would vote for "Possible".

There's something that has been troubling me about the user interface for a long time. I could be wrong, but there are short cuts that don't have menu or button equivalents. This has negative side effects to accomplishing the above and I think it impedes the learning of OpenCPN for new users. This is especially true for those who don't read the manual and those who have poor short term memory.

I've ordered a bluetooth mouse. If I can make this work in the cockpit, I might try a "presenters" mouse.
__________________
David Kester
Pegasus IV
wdkester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 09:44   #36
Marine Service Provider
 
bdbcat's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,883
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Hi guys and gals...

I'm following this thread casually.

What we will need to make real progress here is a specific set of functions/features added to the FLyspray Feature Request list.

We need more than: "Optimize OCPN for touchscreen." We need details.

As I see it there are several operating scenarios:

1. Linux/Android as a remote console using some VNC. The behavior (right click/drag/pinch, etc.) will depend on what the OS provides automatically. For instance, some environments automatically convert pinches into mouse wheel events. And some don't.

2. And then there are native Win8 tablets, soon to become quite popular I believe. What does/will Microsoft do about pinch zoom and right click?

3. And then there are legacy touch systems with random O/S support.

4. And some recent MacBooks, which do some automatic conversion of pinches to mouse events.

So, as you can see, there is lots to consider.

I personally want to get OCPN working well on mainstream tablet machines. And for that we will need lots of hardware availability.

So here is a blatant request to please keep the donation stream alive so that we may acquire the hardware and implement some of these cool features.

Thanks for this thread!

Dave
__________________
bdbcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 10:12   #37
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,758
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
Hi guys and gals...


2. And then there are native Win8 tablets, soon to become quite popular I believe. What does/will Microsoft do about pinch zoom and right click?


Dave
Got a DELL XPS18 AIO with Win8 on the boat. Works as tablet or with keyboard/mouse, so you can compare the two modes.

Pinching /two finger zoom does work. Right click is maintaining finger or pen pressed. Panning works as well as it should.
The problem of a touch interpreted as "center screen" has been mentioned (F4, measuring...).
Icons might be bigger - even on an 18" screen.

Using the mouse/cursor just to get a bearing or distance isn't solved neither.

The biggest issue for me is the low resolution of the touch screen: a finger or even a pen is too big to catch an object - you cover it while trying to select it (AIS) or to get the tip message. Even worse is to define a waypoint. I change back to the mouse in this cases.

Mixed feelings.

Hubert
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 11:11   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: Irwin 37 CC
Posts: 660
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Dave,

I don't believe we've heard from enough users to begin writing Flyspray feature requests. I guess we could submit a bunch of requests and then someone could make sense of it. My wife is about to get the new IBM thingy; maybe she'll let me put O on it.

Hubert,

When used as a tablet does the Dell XPS 18 have function keys on the soft keyboard?
__________________
David Kester
Pegasus IV
wdkester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 11:25   #39
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,758
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdkester View Post
Hubert,

When used as a tablet does the Dell XPS 18 have function keys on the soft keyboard?
David,

good question for a weak memory. Will have a look tomorrow - but if I invoke the soft kbd (which has for sure the two modes "characters" or "num/special keys") which steals then screen estate I can take the BT kdb as well. If I have it at hand of course ...

Hubert
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-12-2013, 13:38   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

BDcat I agree a short list of focused UI improvements is the way to go...Like I said I've not used OpenCPN long enough to help with that at this stage.

You are however missing one scenario missing in you 4 point list

5. Opencpn running natively (not as a remote terminal) within a tablet of various OS (iPad, android or win tablet)

This is my case. I think people get confuse when they see a VNC program as part of the install and assume that its just a remote desktop....not the case here. Its used to access a desktop environment in Linux session running on the tablet.... no strings attached here this is not a teamviewer solution like point 1


Wdkester

I'd say 1 thru three are all possible as you can do that now...4 would rely on more shortcut buttons which would be good for all of the others too.

Whats the state of tablet hardware today? I only know mine.

How many tablets with:

multi touch pinch to zoom etc interface
internal GPS
internal bluetooth
internal wifi
ability to be waterproof (case etc)
You need the first 3 to make the 4th possible/practical

I'd say on the list of must haves:

min 10"screen
decent daylight viewability (thats a hard one)
sound/speakers

and down the list of just would be nice:

Camera
ability to playback movies/media
etc

If you tabulate a list of tablets that fits this type of criteria you will have a better idea of where the market share / OS effort should be focused.
__________________
mhasting2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2013, 11:09   #41
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,758
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdkester View Post
Dave,

When used as a tablet does the Dell XPS 18 have function keys on the soft keyboard?
No F-keys.....
Only characters, digits, special chars and a lot of smilies.

Hubert
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2013, 15:06   #42
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
No F-keys.....
Only characters, digits, special chars and a lot of smilies.

Hubert
Not sure how it would be done on windows8 but I needed to download a new keyboard app on my android tablet to get to the fn keys. There are heaps of them on google play but the one I'm using is called "Hacker's Keyboard"

Maybe its a bios setting?
Windows 8 F1-12 keys? - Yahoo Answers

Cheers
__________________
mhasting2004 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-12-2013, 06:25   #43
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 2,758
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
No F-keys.....
Only characters, digits, special chars and a lot of smilies.

Hubert
Found a way to activate the complete softkbd under W8:
Use the full PC keyboard with the Virtual Keyboard in Windows 8 / RT
__________________
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2013, 14:30   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Boat: Irwin 37 CC
Posts: 660
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

Here are my thoughts on some goals for the OpenCPN user interface (UI) of the future.
1. Use an evolutionary approach, no drastic changes to the current UI.
2. Keep general UI style similar between touch screen and mouse.
3. Where possible, have equivalent functionality between touch and mouse. I know that it's hard to pinch with a mouse.
4. You can’t be all things to all people on all systems. What we need are some open ended tools that we can use to mold OpenCPN to our individual, personality and system, needs.
The following are some ideas that I think may be useful:
1. Make both actions of the single screen touch (single click) optional, the a. center screen and b. negate auto follow. This has already been discussed – Touch users have a hard time selecting an AIS target.
2. Make context menus editable. As an example, when creating routes, using my tablet, I would like to be able to zoom in and out. I would like to add this to the chart context menu. I don’t use scale in/out so would deselect this. I don’t know if pinch would even work in route mode, but if so, “pinch” users might want neither and could reduce clutter.
3. One or more button(s) that can be set to represent one or more key presses or touches (except perhaps pinch). This will allow touch users to easily use shortcuts and function keys.
4. This is more or less an alternative to 3. A button to bring up a editable menu of shortcuts and Fn keys. a) Some soft keyboards don’t have the function keys (like mine) and b) even if the soft kbd has them they become “not so short” cuts for the touch user.

I realize that this is not an exhaustive list and there may be good reasons for not doing any or all of them

Discuss.
__________________
David Kester
Pegasus IV
wdkester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-12-2013, 08:37   #45
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 9,369
Re: OpenCPN Optimized for Touch Screen

This thread and the Shortcuts thread is getting more serious and the subject deserves a separate "Tracker/Flyspray" Project Listing.

I propose calling the Tracker Project:

"Shortcuts & Touch Screen"

Both threads come to some definitive conclusions it should be posted in the project.
The two threads are:
Optimized for Touch Screen This one
Shortcut Keys List

The new Tracker Project:

Shortcuts & Touch Screen

Improvements to the interface for Useability and Touch Screen
1. Objective
2. Constraint
3. Priority
4. Shortcut Detail
5. Touch Detail
6. Conclusion

Please use the above categories if possible.

I think there are big picture items that should be listed in Tracker now.
Lets try to focus on those big picture items as a first priority, and have focused discussion on those items under tracker.

Then we can start to get into details.
__________________

__________________
rgleason is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
screen

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sun Screen Lotion Tom Hildebrandt Health, Safety & Related Gear 2 22-02-2010 17:15
Garmin touch screen question Therapy Navigation 14 29-03-2009 08:07
screen name change Tropic Cat Meets & Greets 7 14-10-2008 10:23
GPS without the screen cat man do Navigation 4 08-07-2008 08:27
Looking for 15" LCD touch screen monitor geoffgroves Marine Electronics 8 26-01-2007 06:29



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.