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Old 02-10-2015, 10:10   #796
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

For information:
Dutch brochure from RWS (Rijkswaterstaat) about inland AIS
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RWS Folder AIS verplichtstelling nov14.pdf (283.8 KB, 21 views)
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Old 14-02-2016, 01:34   #797
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

@Translators
>> Crowdin is today updated with couple of new strings for ocpn_draw_pi.
>> Also br24radar_pi was updated a week ago.

I think I'll use this thread for common translation issues. The thread might be watched by several translators?

Hĺkan
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Old 14-02-2016, 12:28   #798
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

@Translators....

Which I should amplify...

Hakan has generously agreed to be one of the main "Translation Wranglers" for OpenCPN.

He is now a Manager on the OpenCPN Crowdin project, and so can add/update files, correct structural problems, and generally watch over the translation process. I am quite happy to have the help.

Please join me in thanking Hakan for this effort in advance.

Dave
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Old 14-02-2016, 14:09   #799
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Nice words from Dave. Thanks, I'll do my very best.

@Translators:
Watchdog_pi translations are updated. See more here: Watchdog Plugin
Hĺkan
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Old 14-02-2016, 15:18   #800
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Thank you Hakan for heading up the Internationalization!

I have updated the Plugins Language page with two items:
1. Process of Notification for Plugin Developers.
2. NAV's analysis of "strings" spreadsheet method.
Plugin Languages | Official OpenCPN Homepage

Also there are two updated plugins on file thingie from Jon Gough
Ocpn_draw - selecting parameters easier.
WatchDog - language

Will be working on build of BR24, aisradar, rtlsdr and others..
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:08   #801
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Rick.
A great job as usual.
One small comment about this section:
Quote:
Upload the [Plugin_pi].pot file to Hakan via the forum as attachment or via email.
Ok now what? Hakan needs the file weather_routing_pi.pot (take off the pdf)
So I just uploaded the file to the forum here as an example and very soon afterwards Hakan reported that the files on Crowd Source were updated and ready for the Translators.
I think it is a bit "overkill" to ask for a pot file transmit. It's OK with a note, to a Crowdin manager like me or this thread, that the source is ready for translation and if the pot file is updated or not. A updated pot file can easily be fetched from GitHub source.

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Old 16-02-2016, 02:54   #802
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Sorry, agreed. It needs more editing down and reorganization too. Will do so.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:59   #803
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Crowdin hides some strings

Puzzled by Crowdin behavior: it looks like some strings present in the template are not shown in the list. Checked in Russian and Spanish opencpn.pot:
  1. Click on the filter icon (next to search field) and select “Show all” to get consistent string order.
  2. Go to page 20 of 30 (items 951–1000 of 1500) by clicking the page number in the bottom line and typing in the target. Locate adjacent strings “Add MMSI Properties” and “General” approximately in the middle of the page. There should be “NMEA” between the two, but it is missing.
  3. Go to the next page, which starts with “Baudrate” and “Priority”. There should be “150” … “921600”, “NMEA 0183”, “NMEA 2000”, “SeaTalk” between them, as well as “0” … “9” after them.
  4. Navigate to page 18 and locate “TCP” and “Input” in the second half of the page: there should be “UDP” and “GPSD” between them.
Do not hesitate to check by trying to find those strings with a filter — it will yield plenty of other strings, but not those in question.

When PO file is exported, it can be seen that strings are still there as they were for years, and some are even translated already. Re-importing PO file edited locally by POEdit does not help, even if “Import suggestions that match the original string” is checked.

To make the confusion even bigger, Crowdin reports that the file is 100 % translated if those strings are only that were left untouched.
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Old 08-04-2016, 11:44   #804
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Anton...
Some common abbreviations and stuff like numbers are hidden on Crowdin. If you think we should make them available for translation, there is no problem to do so.

Pavel
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:06   #805
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Some common abbreviations and stuff like numbers are hidden on Crowdin.
Well, that explains a lot, but how does it work? Who decides that “UDP” does not need translation while “TCP” does? Why “GPSD” is not translatable while “GPS” is? Why previously existing translations are retained [during export], but new suggestions are ignored [during import]?

As I see now, those words have reappeared, so my guess is that it is a human-controlled technology — not a site-wide policy.

Quote:
If you think we should make them available for translation, there is no problem to do so.
My personal opinion, same as Forums - Post 1276294">3-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-years-IRJDSUNE9932123321222xxeww-ago, is quite the opposite — to remove decimal numbers and proper names from translation at all (regarding isolated terms, of course, as there is no point to cut them out from phrases). At least I see no reason to have numbers translatable, as long as there is no Arabic translation and nobody here is qualified enough to make the template right-to-left compatible and otherwise truly internationalizable.

However, it would be nice not to rely on personal judgments but rather to have a clear i18n policy which provides a definitive set of rules on what is translatable and what is not, among other topics. (For example, it may initially seem a good idea to translate the strings that go into log file — to be more friendly to the end user. On the other side, how will such log be helpful in looking for help and bug reporting?)

There is a need for more general policy, too, covering the original English strings as well. It should define a “canonical” case style (to prevent endless variations of “RADAR rings” which every plugin author reinvents for himself) and encourage re-use of literals and printf-like formatting instead of English-centric concatenation.
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:12   #806
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Anton...
I agree. Are you going to write this stuff though? I won't as I'm neither qualified nor have time to do so. I did my best to disable the common abbreviations while working on the translations I help to maintain, which of course was not perfect, but IMO better than nothing. Won't do it anymore so we at least got rid of "personal judgements"

Pavel
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:54   #807
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Yet another puzzle. I have no profound understanding of wxWidget localization engine, and therefore suppose that it simply tries to do its best, but the outcome may be confusing, to say the least:
  • opencpn.pot has strings “Edit” and “Edit…” (both are verbs), which are translated.
  • weatherfax.pot has a string “&Edit” (also a verb), which is not translated.
  • The result looks like an artificially translated “And Edit” (noun denoting activity).
Where does it actually come from?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Are you going to write this stuff though?
I thought programmers themselves should decide that — the persons that have intimate architectural feeling of the project. And, ideally, which are native English speakers or have perfect knowledge of the original language.

As for my input, I could provide the outline — an initial list of topics that should be covered, perhaps with draft proposals for developers to choose. And it will be hardly an exaggeration that this list could be entirely based on that 3-year old report, as very little changed since then.
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Old 11-04-2016, 11:29   #808
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamsonovAnton View Post
Yet another puzzle. I have no profound understanding of wxWidget localization engine, and therefore suppose that it simply tries to do its best, but the outcome may be confusing, to say the least:
  • opencpn.pot has strings “Edit” and “Edit…” (both are verbs), which are translated.
  • weatherfax.pot has a string “&Edit” (also a verb), which is not translated.
  • The result looks like an artificially translated “And Edit” (noun denoting activity).
Where does it actually come from?
What does "which is not translated" mean exactly? That the translation does not work or that the translator did not translate the string? The character '&' means that the following letter is a shortcut to invoke the action associated with the menu item - once you have the menu open and hit the 'e' key, the action will be performed (https://github.com/seandepagnier/wea...rFaxUI.cpp#L77).
The wxWidgets localization engine is Gettext, so there should be nothing "weird" about it. The whole process first applies the translation, then feeds the event handler - this is important because some translations simply don't contain the original shortcut letter at all and the translator has to change it. As an example, in this very case the Czech translation for "&Edit" is "&Upravit" and the shortcut key is 'u'. It definitely has nothing to do with "And Edit", so should never appear like that.
This way to handle the localization is quite common to all the programming languages I have ever used.

FWIW there still is an unhandled problem in most of the plugins - they should override the _ macro not to be in conflict with the exactly same terms used elsewhere, the same way ocpn_draw_pi does in https://github.com/jongough/ocpn_dra...gure.cmake#L26

Quote:

I thought programmers themselves should decide that — the persons that have intimate architectural feeling of the project. And, ideally, which are native English speakers or have perfect knowledge of the original language.

As for my input, I could provide the outline — an initial list of topics that should be covered, perhaps with draft proposals for developers to choose. And it will be hardly an exaggeration that this list could be entirely based on that 3-year old report, as very little changed since then.
Programmers maybe should, but as you can see they don't For myself, I try...

Internationalization | Official OpenCPN Homepage is probably the right place where to start the effort to make the process to suit your needs.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:08   #809
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
What does "which is not translated" mean exactly? That the translation does not work or that the translator did not translate the string?
The latter one: nobody suggested a translation for that string. Sorry for ambiguity.

Click image for larger version

Name:	gettext_auto_glitch.png
Views:	89
Size:	8.4 KB
ID:	122534

Left to right: opencpn.pot, weatherfax_pi.pot, WeatherFax main window. I also checked templates for other plugins loaded at my computer — dashboard_pi.pot, grib_pi.pot, route_pi.pot, s63_pi.pot — there is no occurrence of substring “Edit” in them, so no possible influence.

Quote:
The character '&' means that the following letter is a shortcut.
I know, but whoever performs that [automatic] translation apparently does not. Moreover, he/she/it does not understand that the original context is a verb rather than a noun “editing”.
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Old 12-04-2016, 10:28   #810
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Re: OpenCPN Internationalization ( i18n )

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamsonovAnton View Post
The latter one: nobody suggested a translation for that string. Sorry for ambiguity.

Attachment 122534

Left to right: opencpn.pot, weatherfax_pi.pot, WeatherFax main window. I also checked templates for other plugins loaded at my computer — dashboard_pi.pot, grib_pi.pot, route_pi.pot, s63_pi.pot — there is no occurrence of substring “Edit” in them, so no possible influence.
Then provide the correct translation and it should get fixed, shouldn't it? Or am I still missing something? I suppose that the wrong translation comes from the wxWidgets library localization in this case, so not much we can do about it, other than override with our own translation.
Quote:
I know, but whoever performs that [automatic] translation apparently does not. Moreover, he/she/it does not understand that the original context is a verb rather than a noun “editing”.
People make mistakes, I honestly don't understand what you suggest we should do about it other than correct them when they are found.

EDIT: https://github.com/wxWidgets/wxWidge...ale/ru.po#L279

Pavel
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