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Old 08-04-2019, 00:06   #1
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Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Hi all,

I have an Open GL issue that keeps haunting me so far on 3 brand new Dell Windows 10 Desktops that were just purchased. (Optiplex 3050 and 3060's). Whenever Open GL is enabled, zooming in an out produces square boxes and flickering. I'm using the NOAA raster charts, but I'm not sure if that makes a difference or not.

Sometimes the problems takes a bit to show it self but eventually it does. The fix is to disable Open GL, which I really do want to do because we enjoy the benefits of it.

Some of these computers also have the latest version of Nobeltec Timezero Navigator on them and I'm able to zoom around with that no problem. I understand that this is probably a driver issue, as I ran into this problem on another computer a while back and the fix was to install a really old server (Raster charts not displaying properly with Open GL enabled). On these 3 brand new Dell computers I picked up, I tried installing older drivers but the problem remains.

What I need to know, so I can contact Dell support, is for someone to be able to tell me what exactly the problem with these drivers so they can fix it. The problem ONLY occurs in Open CPN so what can I tell them that Open GL is or isnt doing correctly? The video display looks and works fine for all other applications on the system. Is there some other test I can run against it to prove that there is actually a problem going on with Open GL? Or is this possibly an Open CPN bug?

Here is a shot of what I am seeing when zooming in and out.

Thanks in advance. Would really like to get this issue resolved.

Click image for larger version

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Old 08-04-2019, 01:13   #2
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

The usual solution for bad OpenGL drivers for the integrated Intel GPUs is exactly what you did last time - to use up to date (= really new) drivers from (probably as you did not post the logfile showing the GPU the machine has) https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pro...D-Graphics-630 instead of the usually years outdated ones provided by the manufacturer.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:16   #3
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
The usual solution for bad OpenGL drivers for the integrated Intel GPUs is exactly what you did last time - to use up to date (= really new) drivers from (probably as you did not post the logfile showing the GPU the machine has) https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pro...D-Graphics-630 instead of the usually years outdated ones provided by the manufacturer.

I tried downloading and installing the one from Intel but it gave me the error saying it was incompatible.

How do I define the driver as being bad? What test can I do, other than OpenCPN not working correctly? Everything else works just as it should.
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Old 08-04-2019, 01:32   #4
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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I tried downloading and installing the one from Intel but it gave me the error saying it was incompatible.
What exactly did it tell you? What exactly is different on these Optiplexes fro the other Optiplex where you were able to do this?
Quote:
How do I define the driver as being bad? What test can I do, other than OpenCPN not working correctly? Everything else works just as it should.
You define the driver being bad by seeing what you see now. I am not aware of other applications using the 2D OpenGL textures as heavily as OpenCPN, but would probably try to start with https://www.geeks3d.com/furmark/, GpuTest - Cross-Platform GPU Stress Test and OpenGL Benchmark for Windows, Linux and OS X | Geeks3D.com, https://sourceforge.net/projects/openglchecker/, Google Earth in OpenGL mode etc.
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Old 08-04-2019, 19:23   #5
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
What exactly did it tell you? What exactly is different on these Optiplexes fro the other Optiplex where you were able to do this?

You define the driver being bad by seeing what you see now. I am not aware of other applications using the 2D OpenGL textures as heavily as OpenCPN, but would probably try to start with https://www.geeks3d.com/furmark/, GpuTest - Cross-Platform GPU Stress Test and OpenGL Benchmark for Windows, Linux and OS X | Geeks3D.com, https://sourceforge.net/projects/openglchecker/, Google Earth in OpenGL mode etc.

Two systems are Dell Opiplex 3060 Micro and one is a 3050 Micro.

They were purchased brand new directly from Dell and are still under Warranty.


https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop...lex-3060-micro


I tried to install the driver from Intel and it told me it was incompatible with this system and could not be installed. Basically saying its the wrong driver.


I then installed the latest version from Dell based on the system service tag. Also tried a few versions older and no change.

Do you have any tips on running that tool? I downloaded it and there are several stress tests available. Any idea what I should be running and looking for? If I can pin this issue, I can go back to Dell Support with it. The only downside is the computers are on the boats right now in use. I just had them uncheck the openGL box.
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Old 08-04-2019, 19:42   #6
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

My only tip is you install the latest Intel driver for the GPU integrated in the processor, exactly as you did last time with the other Optiplex where you had exactly the same problem.
The Intel GPU is integrated in the Intel processor, Dell does nothing to it, there is no reason the Intel drivers should not work with it, so if you want to get it sorted, please at least start posting the EXACT information you get when something does not work as "the driver being incompatible" is simply not technically possible, unless, of course, also the Windows 10 running on those machines was not updated since October 2017.
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Old 11-04-2019, 14:23   #7
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

You could get on Intel's website and download their short program that detects all intel chips and suggests which drivers are compatible, including Intel HD graphics cards. That is what I have done with an old Inspiron laptop and its is running fine.
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Old 13-04-2019, 23:46   #8
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

I got a chance to spend a couple hours with the Dell 3060 Windows 10 box today on the boat.

Per rgleason's recommendation, the first thing I did was download the Intel Utility which connects to their site and downloads the latest recommended drivers. I ran it and it said there was a newer graphics adapter driver available. I got excited, thinking this was going to work so I installed that latest driver, rebooted the system and ran Open CPN, then turned Open GL back on. I zoomed in and out, sure enough the square colored boxes that I posted in the first pic still showed up. Damn!

I then went to Intel and manually downloaded five previous versions of display adapter drivers that they had available for my chipset. I installed each one of them and tested. Every single one experienced the same problem with the boxes when zooming in and out.

I then went to Dell and downloaded the only 2 graphics drivers they had available for my system. After testing each one, I STILL got the colored boxes.

So at this point, I have tried every single driver possibly available to download for the system from both Dell and Intel and the problem remains.

Just for kicks, I then went to device manager and uninstalled the adapter driver and checked the box to delete the driver. After I rebooted the OS came back up and I went to device manager again to see what the system would use when I deleted all vendor display drivers. The Video card was now using the "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter". In my research, this is what windows 10 uses if there is no correct display adapter driver available. I then launched Open CPN, turned on Open GL and tried zooming in and out. The colored boxes are gone! It works like it should! However, this is good and bad at the same time. The video performance for the machine overall is terrible because there is no acceleration or correct display adapter driver installed. If fact, I'm not even sure of Open GL was actually running at that point because everything video wise was so slow. I could barley drag the maps around with my cursor. However, the maps did display correctly as they should while zooming.

I couldn't leave it this way, so I just installed the latest driver again, and turned off Open GL again and left the boat so they could use the computer again.

What should I do next at this point since I tried installing every single driver I possibly could and none of them worked? The computer performs fine with every single driver I tried except for the zooming issue with Open CPN.
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:01   #9
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Well I am certainly not the expert on this, knowledgeable maybe, but no expert.


Read this and try some of it if it applies.
https://www.google.com/search?client...opengl+windows


Test your graphics card for OpenGL compatibility. Perhaps it has gone bad?
If this continues you may want to get a new graphics card. Even Dell Laptops often have space & connections for a second graphics card. My Inspiron XPS has Intel HD Graphics 3000 on board and a separate Nvidia Geforce 540M graphics card.


Let us know what you can find out.
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:04   #10
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

If you board is in a slot. Turn off the computer and remove the board, clean out the dust carefully and reseat it, pushing gently without stressing the main board to make sure it is fully seated. (Dust from years of use is often a culprit, but yours are new I think.) Bad connections can slow everything down and make the board a dog and eventually it fails.

Dell generally has good instructions about doing this. Search Dell support for the instructions for your model.


Also

https://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:08   #11
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Well I am certainly not the expert on this, knowledgeable maybe, but no expert.


Read this and try some of it if it applies.
https://www.google.com/search?client...opengl+windows


Test your graphics card for OpenGL compatibility. Perhaps it has gone bad?
If this continues you may want to get a new graphics card. Even Dell Laptops often have space & connections for a second graphics card. My Inspiron XPS has Intel HD Graphics 3000 on board and a separate Nvidia Geforce 540M graphics card.

Let us know what you can find out.

I will try the Open GL utility test the next time I can get on the boat.

In regards to installing another graphics card, I'd love to but all 3 of these systems are micro form factor units. Meaning they are tiny, maybe 2 inches thick by 8 inches square. There is no room to install any cards unfortunately. I could see maybe one graphics card going bad but not all 3 in brand new systems just purchased a month ago directly from Dell.
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:11   #12
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
If you board is in a slot. Turn off the computer and remove the board, clean out the dust carefully and reseat it, pushing gently without stressing the main board to make sure it is fully seated. (Dust from years of use is often a culprit, but yours are new I think.)


Dell generally has good instructions about doing this. Search Dell support for the instructions for your model.

I wish this could be a good solution except these systems are brand new, just pulled out of box straight from Dell at $750 a piece. Also, the graphics for these micro form factor units are built directly on the board. There is no separate cards on them. We purchased these units specially for the boats along with solid state drives, since they were so small and compact.
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:19   #13
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

If they are brand new Dell, you should stay current with only Dell Drivers.
Login to your Dell account and put in your machine or service number and find the most current drivers that Dell reccommends.



You should not be having these problems at all. Use your paid for Dell support to get opengl working correctly if they are less than a year or less than your warrantee.
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Old 14-04-2019, 00:21   #14
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
If they are brand new Dell, you should stay current with only Dell Drivers.
Login to your Dell account and put in your machine or service number and find the most current drivers that Dell reccommends.

You should not be having these problems at all. Use your paid for Dell support to get opengl working correctly if they are less than a year or less than your warrantee.

That is what I did. Dell offers the current version display adapter driver and one older one. I tried both with no luck.

I don't think I can call Dell Support and tell them "I'm getting square colored boxes in Open CPN when I zoom in and out". They will tell me to contact the software vendor because there is no other problems outside of the program that I can find.
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Old 14-04-2019, 05:21   #15
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Again:

You already had exactly the same problem on exactly the same hardware and it was solved by upgrading the driver, right?

What exactly is the version of the driver installed on that system you did fix? <please fill>

Did you install exactly the same version on these new systems?

There is indeed no value in telling us how many versions of the driver you tried without their version numbers.
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