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Old 14-04-2019, 11:56   #16
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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I will try the Open GL utility test the next time I can get on the boat.

What are the results?
Dell is not perfect, I can assure you. They modify manu boards and insist on special drivers too.

They do support new machines and provide updated drivers. Run the tests!
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Old 14-04-2019, 12:39   #17
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

These probably have Intel onboard graphics. The 3060 optiplex is intended for workday environments. I see nothing about the graphics cards on Dell's selling website. I don't believe some of them support opengl. You should look into that.
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Old 14-04-2019, 14:34   #18
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Rick...

Every Intel GPU integrated in the processor does support OpenGL. The Optiplex probably has UHD Graphics 630 integrated, unless there are some other versions of that machine available.
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Old 14-04-2019, 15:36   #19
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

That's useful to know. He has to run the tests then and report back in detail with the chipset version, drivers used, tests run, tests failed.

Only way to get to the problem I think.
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Old 14-04-2019, 17:35   #20
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

J805,

Why do you say you canít call Dell and talk to them about the issue? You are entitled to phone support on new Optiplex systems as far as I know. Dell have people that know about graphics problems.
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Old 14-04-2019, 19:57   #21
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Again:

You already had exactly the same problem on exactly the same hardware and it was solved by upgrading the driver, right?

What exactly is the version of the driver installed on that system you did fix? <please fill>

Did you install exactly the same version on these new systems?

There is indeed no value in telling us how many versions of the driver you tried without their version numbers.
No it was a totally different model dell windows 10 computer. The fix for that one was to try a different driver until I found one that worked.
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Old 15-04-2019, 04:09   #22
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Ok, so these Optiplexes are completely different than the last Optiplex. Now let's get to the rest of the information we need:

The latest driver available from Intel is 25.20.100.6618, did you install that?
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Old 15-04-2019, 04:59   #23
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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J805,

Why do you say you canít call Dell and talk to them about the issue? You are entitled to phone support on new Optiplex systems as far as I know. Dell have people that know about graphics problems.
On the other it's likely an OpenCPN issue.
From other reports we may have a regression, a texture leak somewhere or a push/pop mismatch.


Moreover we do very little error checking and in my understanding our VBO usage isn't following best practice; two perfectly working drivers may have different resources limits, and whatever error path we have could be 100% untested anyway.
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Old 15-04-2019, 06:35   #24
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

did-g...


"in my understanding our VBO usage isn't following best practice"


How so?


Thanks
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Old 15-04-2019, 06:47   #25
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

J805...


As an aside, I note from the screenshot that the machines are running OpenCPN V4.x.
Have you tried OpenCPN Version 5?


Also, next time you have access to the machines, you may like to do two things:
1. Capture the OpenCPN logfile, when running with the error, GL ON. Post it here.

2. Try to enable/disable the OpenGL texture caching option. See if it makes any difference. This can help our debugging.



Thanks
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Old 15-04-2019, 07:46   #26
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

j805...
After reading the earlier thread fully again...

Raster charts not displaying properly with Open GL enabled


This problem is clearly the same, and involves the latest available Intel driver interaction with Win10. In the previous case, the machine worked OK in GL mode. Then one fine day it ..simply... failed, with the same symptom we see here. Absent any other user configuration change, this is pretty clearly due to an overnight Win10 update.


How to fix? Try (probably yet again) to remove the "latest" Intel driver. Reboot Win10 and let it find the new hardware, as it did on the earlier thread.


Also, it is reported that the latest drivers from Intel will not install on the new machines of this current thread. Reported as "incompatible". What, please, is the EXACT error message reported?


Finally, we really need to run the GPU stress test utilities as linked earlier, trying to settle the problem source to OCPN, or the drivers.
The HD 630 graphics module is present in many modern Intel processors, high performance laptops especially. If there is a pathological problem with OCPN on this chip, I suspect we would be hearing more about it...


And one more:
Other interested users with modern Intel machines running Win10 may like to examine their system configuration and OCPN logfile, to add more information to this thread.


Thanks
Dave
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Old 15-04-2019, 12:52   #27
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
did-g...


"in my understanding our VBO usage isn't following best practice"



How so?


Thanks
Dave
Irrelevant for raster but O is using too many VBO, thousands thanks to s52plib::RenderToGLAC, speaking only on linux but every VBO can be a separate mmap (ATI driver).
grep ^Size /proc/<opencpn pid>/smaps|wc -l
6523

Less than 1 000 is safer, mmaps are user system wide resources.


https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/...Best_Practices


Old NVidia papers advocate very low numbers.
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:29   #28
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Ok, so these Optiplexes are completely different than the last Optiplex. Now let's get to the rest of the information we need:

The latest driver available from Intel is 25.20.100.6618, did you install that?
I did install the latest Intel driver: 25.20.100.6618

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 25.20.100.6577 from Intel.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 25.20.100.6519 from Intel.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 25.20.100.6471 from Intel.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 25.20.100.6444 from Intel.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 15.47.02.4815 from Intel.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it and tried installing: 25.20.100.6471 ,A02 from Dell.

The same square block issue occurred. I then uninstalled it went to Dell.com and tried installing: 23.20.16.4973 ,A01 from Dell.


I received the same square block issue on every driver. I then reinstalled the latest driver from Dell (25.20.100.6471 ,A02), Disabled Open GL and left the boat as I was out of ideas.
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Old 16-04-2019, 10:56   #29
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

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Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
J805...


As an aside, I note from the screenshot that the machines are running OpenCPN V4.x.
Have you tried OpenCPN Version 5?


Also, next time you have access to the machines, you may like to do two things:
1. Capture the OpenCPN logfile, when running with the error, GL ON. Post it here.

2. Try to enable/disable the OpenGL texture caching option. See if it makes any difference. This can help our debugging.



Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,


I have not tried version 5 yet, due to the fairly significant GUI change. The people on the boat are still trying to get use to Open CPN after I convinced them to leave Nobeltec. I really don't want to throw another curveball at them just yet. However I could do a Parallel Installation and easily test to see if the problem still occurs. Its just a matter of loading raster charts and zooming in/out. The colored square boxes will appear. I will try this next time I am down there. The boat is about a half hour drive from me.

1. I will do a fresh log capture the next time I am down there with Open GL on.

2. I did try enabling and disabling the texture caching option. It made no difference, the square boxes still appeared. I also tried clearing cache and rebuilding. I even deleted all the charts and re-downloaded, no luck.

The only way I was able to make the square boxes go away while zooming with Open GL turned on was to uninstall every single display driver on the system and let it use the "Microsoft Basic Display Adapter Driver". However the overall video performance across the board was pretty bad when using this driver. Just dragging the charts around was painful.
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Old 16-04-2019, 11:13   #30
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Re: Ongoing Open GL issues with new Windows 10 Dell desktops

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdbcat View Post
j805...
After reading the earlier thread fully again...

Raster charts not displaying properly with Open GL enabled


This problem is clearly the same, and involves the latest available Intel driver interaction with Win10. In the previous case, the machine worked OK in GL mode. Then one fine day it ..simply... failed, with the same symptom we see here. Absent any other user configuration change, this is pretty clearly due to an overnight Win10 update.

How to fix? Try (probably yet again) to remove the "latest" Intel driver. Reboot Win10 and let it find the new hardware, as it did on the earlier thread.

Also, it is reported that the latest drivers from Intel will not install on the new machines of this current thread. Reported as "incompatible". What, please, is the EXACT error message reported?


Finally, we really need to run the GPU stress test utilities as linked earlier, trying to settle the problem source to OCPN, or the drivers.
The HD 630 graphics module is present in many modern Intel processors, high performance laptops especially. If there is a pathological problem with OCPN on this chip, I suspect we would be hearing more about it...


And one more:
Other interested users with modern Intel machines running Win10 may like to examine their system configuration and OCPN logfile, to add more information to this thread.


Thanks
Dave

These computers have no internet access so there is no updates that can get applied unless I go down there, hotspot my phone and connect them to the internet via wifi. As far as why a different driver worked on that other older Optiplex, I have no idea why but it did.

As a test, I removed the latest driver on this new optiplex 3060 and then connected it to the internet. I asked it to go search windows updates for the latest driver and install. It pulled down a slighly older version than what was on Intel's site but I installed it. Still the same colored square box issue occurred.


Re: Also, it is reported that the latest drivers from Intel will not install on the new machines of this current thread. Reported as "incompatible". What, please, is the EXACT error message reported?

I fixed this. It ends up that Windows 10 does not like you installing non-certified drivers via EXE from Vendors. I got around this by downloading the zip file version of the driver instead and simply going to device manager and updating the driver that way, pointing it at the zip contents. I have discovered its a common issue with Windows 10.

I will run the GPU stress test and see what it comes up with.

I am also seeing the problem on the HD 610 graphics module which comes on the Optiplex 3050. However both computers use the same driver it ends up. The exact same files are available to download for both systems so the driver covers more than one apparently.
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