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Old 14-10-2014, 14:24   #46
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Very interesting.
- Do you burn or install an outside ROM or does it mean you replace a chip?
In android there are 'recoveries', the least functional being the recovery provided on stock devices. TWRP and CWM (Clockwork Mod) are the best known recoveries used by the developers of custom ROMs. Depending on the ROM of choice the suitable recovery is installed from a P.C. via a usb cable into the devices root partition. From then on everything is accomplished via the recovery. The recovery can be accessed during boot by pressing one or more buttons controlling volume, or via a menu that presents when rebooting the system. Options are to install, backup, restore, 'fix permissions', manage files, format, partition and much more.

Quote:
- I guess for a device that is going to run Opencpn and be dedicated to the boat I would not have a problem with rooting it, even a new one, provided it was a proven and reliable process and provided the installation of software went implacably, and provided Opencpn runs stably, fast and reliably.
My experience has been failure free, which includes extending the Motorola Xooms useful life by repartitioning the device so that larger, bleeding edge ROMs can be used. My Xoom is currently running Kit Kat 4.4.4, the most recent version of android.

Quote:
- As far as Opencpn having Opengl available, ...it is needed for shading in Climatology and Grib overlays and also optionally with charts, and it would be ideal if it were available. Is that unlikely with Tablets being produces? What is different without Opengl? ...Slower?
I do not feel the usefulness of OpenCPN on my tablet is reduced without OpenGL. I've never used 'climatology', but have no problem using grib 'overlays' downloaded with zyGrib, also installed and working flawlessly on my tablet. I have no complaint as to how charts display. However, if you view the screenshots from my post earler in this discussion you can see some differences. Whether or not these differences matter is up to you. The primary issue affecting OpenGL, unless someone who knows otherwise proves me wrong, is video cards vary between devices and OpenGL drivers may not be useable under linux - even though android employs a linux kernel. Suffice to say there are enough 'faults' in trying to use OpenGL on my Xoom I'm going without. Any increase in speed is negligible. Remember, we are not running a game here, where speed matters. It's a navigation program. And if you use the program any way near the same as I do, it is accessed infrequently while underway to check whatever is of interest at the moment and while planning. My recommendation, simply because it's done more quickly on a P.C. and not because it cannot be done on your device, is plan on a P.C. and thereafter import the gpx file into OpenCPN on the device.
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Old 14-10-2014, 15:15   #47
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Thank you Wrong. We have some really knowledgeable people here. So is a "recovery" a small managing program at the "root"? Also why is the process called "root" or "rooting"?

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Old 14-10-2014, 16:06   #48
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

It seems to me Sean really likes the MALI graphics chips which support Opengl, why wouldn't Tablets have need for fast graphics? There must be a graphics chip on them can't imagine that ARM alone would be sufficient for rendering video etc.... What do Samsung Tablets have for graphics chips?
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Old 14-10-2014, 16:09   #49
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

I'd be interested in getting on the list of Alpha or Beta testers if you have one started. I have a Nexus 7 I use sailing but would love opencpn on it.
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Old 14-10-2014, 16:42   #50
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

ARM Mali Graphics
Mali Graphics - ARM
2009 MALI-300 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES
2010 MALI-400 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES Up to 4 cores. up to 1080p res
2013 MALI-450 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES 2x Mali-400 up to 8 cores
2013 MALI-V500 4k res 120fps 8 cores, 1080p60 performance to smartphones,
2013 MALI-T760 energy efficiency 16 cores
High end - ARM Mali-T760 GPU, ARM Mali-T628 GPU, ARM Mali-T624 GPU, ARM Mali-T678 GPU, ARM Mali-T622 GPU and ARM Mali-T604 GPU.
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Old 14-10-2014, 16:50   #51
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Thank you Wrong. We have some really knowledgeable people here. So is a "recovery" a small managing program at the "root"? Also why is the process called "root" or "rooting"?

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A 'recovery', as you suggest is a module installed in the devices 'root' partition, akin to the root partition on a P.C. containing the boot and FAT (file allocation table). O.E.M. recoveries are limited in their usefullness compared to CWM and TWRP which offer additional features such as file management, installing different ROMs, 'fixing' file permissions, repartioning and more. They are also used to backup and restore an installed ROM and applications (gapps), referred to as a 'nandroid' backup. If a device's system is damaged to an extent the device will not boot, a nandroid backup restored through 'recovery' will generally fix the problem without significant loss of data. If a device will not boot, recovery is accessed by pressing the appropriate volume button during the boot process. Otherwise, recovery is accessed via a menu that presents after long pressing the power button while the device is up. If a user has not created a nandroid backup with recovery, restoring a device to full functionality through recovery is still doable, but most likely with loss of data.

Rooting a devce is necessary if applications and users requiring root access to system files are to have it. Under linux there is typically only one root user with a closely guarded password. Other users can be given limited or temporary root access to files, but it's risky. One mis-typed command by a user with root access is all it takes to destroy a system. During the 'rooting' process, an appllication called Super Su is installed. Any application needing root access to work must obtain permission from Super Su in order for root access to be granted. Super Su prompts the user for a response to grant or deny an application root access. Root file managers and Linux Deploy are two examples of programs needing root access to work.

Grib overlays may look different with OpenGL enabled in OpenCPN. But here's a screenshot of a grib overlay in OpenCPN running on my Xoom in a chroot environment.
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Old 14-10-2014, 16:53   #52
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Coupling of ARM GPU and CPUs
AnandTech | ARM's Mali-T658 GPU in 2013, Up to 10x Faster than Mali-400
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Old 14-10-2014, 16:56   #53
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
ARM Mali Graphics
Mali Graphics - ARM
2009 MALI-300 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES
2010 MALI-400 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES Up to 4 cores. up to 1080p res
2013 MALI-450 Mp Opengl 2.0 ES 2x Mali-400 up to 8 cores
2013 MALI-V500 4k res 120fps 8 cores, 1080p60 performance to smartphones,
2013 MALI-T760 energy efficiency 16 cores
High end - ARM Mali-T760 GPU, ARM Mali-T628 GPU, ARM Mali-T624 GPU, ARM Mali-T678 GPU, ARM Mali-T622 GPU and ARM Mali-T604 GPU.
Which devices have the Mali chipset? Considering cost, footprint, device durability in construction and more, where should OpenGL be placed among priorities in choosing a device? Also, while these are designed to work with android, will they work from within linux?
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Old 14-10-2014, 17:03   #54
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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Your point is noted, but Tabs come with 16gb normally, and are much more expensive with 32gb. Also who wants to run Opencpn with a usb and cord for the mini USB? Or did you have some other scenario in mind? Like running a wifi HD?
It would be nice to essentially have a second data drive with the Ext SD card.
You can plug your USB memory into a wifi reader. (this drives hardware cost up)

You can plug your USB memory into OTG. (marginal hardware cost)

You can store your data on a wifi HD.

Etc.

Now what is the problem with 16 "only" Gb?

I have the smallest cheapest tablet around (8 Gb) and it is keeps like a handful of nav soft and a fine slice of chart files. Why would OpenCPN not fit in? Is it bloated?

Perhaps we are talking problems that do not exist?

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Old 14-10-2014, 17:04   #55
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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I'd be interested in getting on the list of Alpha or Beta testers if you have one started. I have a Nexus 7 I use sailing but would love opencpn on it.
Presently, the only way to have OpenCPN running on an android is found here: Building on Motorola Xoom | Official OpenCPN Homepage

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Old 14-10-2014, 17:40   #56
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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Now what is the problem with 16 "only" Gb?
Perhaps we are talking problems that do not exist?
Your point is good if you use a Tablet during day, and PC for planning.
I've been thinking of a dedicated setup, and I am used to Windows progarms and seem to have many utilities and programs from SDR to compiling, to several Nav programs, it adds up, but perhaps 16gb is just fine.

thinking boat computer would be linux, maybe android????
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Old 14-10-2014, 18:56   #57
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

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Your point is good if you use a Tablet during day, and PC for planning.

(...)
Hmmmmm. Why is PC required for planning?

Do you mean the ability to export data? E.g. like to another GPS or to a plotter? If so, then why not export the same data from Android?

PLS bear with me: I am just trying to see where the problem is.

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Old 14-10-2014, 19:35   #58
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Well there are a bunch of things I'd like to do.
Radar - gain or broadband
Ais
Nmea instruments
Eventually ham
These items kind of ask for a built in mini computer I think.

Also there is a lot of pc programs I would have to get away from, so maybe I put those programs on the builtin boat conputer.

Then the rooted tablet becomes the opencpn cockpit / under dodger computer.
I don't think this computer would handle radar and ais and nmea wirelessly do you?

I'd like to be sure I had enough cpu for some of the Sdr stuff too
It seems like there will be many wires going to a cabin computer.
Then I could have a wp screen and cable on a swing out arm. OR I could just add a rooted tablet. I think it would be better to do it with Linux but don't know if all pros are available.


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Old 14-10-2014, 22:14   #59
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

Rick...

One thing I have learned about computers onboard is this: Designing the ultimate integrated onboard system based on present knowledge will lead to a lot of rewiring and re-installation over time. The rate of change of hardware, software, and interfaces is accelerating. By the time a system is really deployed and debugged, the enthusiast wants the next generation. And so it goes...

But really, this is how it should be. We don't really need all this computing power to make the boat go, do we? But we like it, and like to fiddle with it. Geeks know a deep and resonant satisfaction when a complex system plays nice.

So, the approach i recommend is this: Build and install what you can get running acceptably for this season, and go sailing. Don't spend a lot of energy building custom teak enclosures for specific bits of hardware. Plan for (sometimes massively disruptive) changes.

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Old 14-10-2014, 23:32   #60
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Re: OCPN for Android Proof of Concept and Teaser....

A few things about opengl:

1. If supported, the cpu usage is lower, and this reduces power consumption
2. The amount of ram needed by opencpn is much lower.
3. Course up, or rotations besides north up work much better
4. A lot of plugins as well as the main application have enhanced graphics.
5. Future support for things like polar projections, custom color schemes etc.. will likely depend on opengl

With that said.. it is certainly possible to navigate without opengl.

If needed, I can sail my boat without winches (I only have 2 as it is) I am well aware any sized vessel can be sailed without any if needed.
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