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Old 17-02-2016, 12:48   #1246
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Hello Jongough, hello All,

It is a long post that I write here. I hope my English text is understandable

For OD, here are new tests that I made yesterday and today with Version 0.4.658. I have redone with Version 0.4.662.
for WD, 19030. I am not making the right version of testing with WD because RGleason has not compiled the release 19031. We'll have to work again.

That said, I made 3 boundary, ie 3 areas, with:
Area 1: Grid inside ---> Exclusion,
Area 2: Grid outdoors ---> Inclusion
Area 3: No grid, ---> Neither.

For these tests, I kept activated boundary.

With WD, I created a Boundary alert and moves the boat through the 3 areas.
To study all possible settings, I took the test 4 times taking in WD:
- Once selecting "All",
- After choosing "Inclusion",
- After choosing "Exclusion",
- After choosing "Neither.

So, I tested 12 possible situations. (12 because there are 3 options in OD and 4 options in WD)

I notice that :
- In 6 of 12 cases, the alert is never activated.
- In the other 6 cases, the alert is triggered only if the boat is in an area.
- With the selection "ALL" in WD, the alert always fires as soon as the boat enters an area.
- With OD Exclusion, and WD Exclusion, the alert is triggered if the boat is inside the "Grid inside" area
- With OD Inclusion, and WD Inclusion, the alert is triggered if the boat is inside the "Grid outside" area
- With OD Neither, and WD Neither, the alert is triggered if the boat is in the "No grid" area

First question :
Jongough, these results are they that you wanted?

Second question :

It is not clear how to check the boxes in OD and in WD, for the desired alert.
In particular, we have 6 situations where, no alert will sound. There is a significant risk that a user makes a mistake in his choice, and check boxes causing no warning. In this case, it will be in danger.
I think we need to rethink the definition of windows alerts so that this risk disappears. Otherwise, it will not have confidence in these tools.

at OD:
I maintain that we must understand that users will look at the areas based on the presence of the grid. For them, "Grid inside" will be easier to understand than "Exclusion". Similarly "Grid outside" will be easier to understand than "Inclusion" and finally that "No grid" will be easier to understand than "Neither." He will see with their eyes what their words say.

At WD:
In the Properties window of the "alert zones", one can imagine to draw a table with 3 rows and 4 columns. And keep active 6 acceptable boxes and prohibit the other 6 boxes. And even if you think about it, each choice in OD, just keep active two boxes. And among these two boxes, one with the ALL check box in the right line. And the second box in the right column.

But I admit that this is complicated. But the safety of users requires that we make a good product. Also, if a simpler solution can offer, do not hesitate to choose.

Best regards. Gilletarom.

Here join screen copy, gpx test and VDR file for test.

More, when the WD Version 10031 is available, I can test with boundary inactive and with boundary "active or inactive". So 24 other tests.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_test_description.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	398.9 KB
ID:	119177   Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_tests_results.jpg
Views:	38
Size:	159.0 KB
ID:	119178  

Attached Files
File Type: pdf 3_polygons_areas_inside_outside_no_grid.gpx.pdf (11.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: pdf 2013-07-09-Mardi_Den-Helder_Ile_de_Texel.zip.pdf (486.4 KB, 5 views)
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Old 17-02-2016, 13:02   #1247
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Gilletarom,
Thank you for the extensive testing. Looking at your coloured grid gives a good representation of what should happen. If this is what actually occurred then I would say it is working as I expect.

Have you looked at the OD documentation (ODraw | Official OpenCPN Homepage), there is a screen shot at the start showing all the objects that can be draw and using text points to describe them in a couple of words. If we were to put your table into the documentation describing the interaction with WD, do you think this would help the users? Also, I suppose, I could put your table into the 'About' box of OD preferences.

Jon

PS. WD 031 is available here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zegr9baow3...win32.exe?dl=0
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Old 17-02-2016, 13:24   #1248
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongough View Post
....
Of course the Watchdog POT file has now changed! ...
Jon
I have the new pot file. I want to test with WD 10031 before send French WD language file.
Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 17-02-2016, 13:47   #1249
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Jon Gough,
Quote:
Originally Posted by jongough View Post
...
Have you looked at the OD documentation (ODraw | Official OpenCPN Homepage), there is a screen shot at the start showing all the objects that can be draw and using text points to describe them in a couple of words. If we were to put your table into the documentation describing the interaction with WD, do you think this would help the users? Also, I suppose, I could put your table into the 'About' box of OD preferences. Jon
No problem. You can use the table in the Odraw documentation in OpenCPN web site, if you want, and /or in the "About box of ODPreferences" if you want.

here an other format (html page)
Gilletarom.
Attached Files
File Type: doc OD_et_WD.html.doc (4.6 KB, 4 views)
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Old 17-02-2016, 14:08   #1250
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

hello Jongough,

Sorry to bother you again tonight.

So far talked about my tests with "Boundary", so with polygonal areas. But I also did tests with zones obtained with "Boundary point". So these areas are disks.

As with polygonal areas, 3 choices X 4 choices = 12 tests. The results are the same as for polygonal areas.

That said, you will understand my question, for there are two days for the activation of this area.
For users, that zones are created using a "Boundary" or "Boundary point" it does not matter (except the geometrical shape). These are always areas.

BUT obviously, you can not do with the circular areas, the same as with the polygonal areas. Indeed, one can turn on or off a polygonal area but can not enable or disable a circular area.

From the perspective of the role of such areas, this is strange.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_test_description_2.jpg
Views:	31
Size:	384.6 KB
ID:	119184   Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_test_running.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	256.8 KB
ID:	119185  

Attached Files
File Type: pdf 3_Rings_areas_inside_outside_no_grid.gpx.pdf (2.0 KB, 4 views)
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Old 17-02-2016, 14:49   #1251
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

I think Gille's graphic and table would be a good summary in the watchdog plugin documentation.
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Old 17-02-2016, 14:55   #1252
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

JonGough,

Sorry. I thing that I encountered a bug . But who knows ?

I have a stock of polygonal areas and a stock of circular areas. You know.

The first area circular is actived (of course) and the first polygonal area is unactived.
But , the first circular area is not visible and the first circular area is at the same place that the first polygonal area.

I run the boat and it see the first circular area. Theorically, it is not possible since this area is not visible. Then, the alarm is running.

For me, this is not normal. Anyway, this is problematic.

See screen copy.
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_test_Not_visible_area.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	302.4 KB
ID:	119193   Click image for larger version

Name:	2016-02-17-OpenCPN 4.2.0_test_Not_visible_area_2.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	389.5 KB
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Old 17-02-2016, 22:22   #1253
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Hi,
I have just put up patch 663 which changes the OD Properties panel to include a 'Help' tab which has Gilletarom's table showing the interaction of OD and WD.

Regards
Jon
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Old 17-02-2016, 22:29   #1254
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Gilletarom,
I know that there is a disconnect between boundary points and boundaries in that boundary points do not have the concept of 'Active/Inactive'. I would like to leave making this change until after the first release of the plugin as there are a few things to change to make it happen.

Please raise these good ideas in flyspray and I will get to making the changes. Unless there are bugs I am trying to make as few changes to the core code as possible. I am adding peripheral changes, like the help tab, which does not affect the main line code, but I hope I have most of it covered now.

I am sure there are many things that people would like to see in this plugin, but I could go on for another year and still have changes/additions to make and never arrive at a stable, production ready, plugin.

Regards
Jon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
hello Jongough,

Sorry to bother you again tonight.

So far talked about my tests with "Boundary", so with polygonal areas. But I also did tests with zones obtained with "Boundary point". So these areas are disks.

As with polygonal areas, 3 choices X 4 choices = 12 tests. The results are the same as for polygonal areas.

That said, you will understand my question, for there are two days for the activation of this area.
For users, that zones are created using a "Boundary" or "Boundary point" it does not matter (except the geometrical shape). These are always areas.

BUT obviously, you can not do with the circular areas, the same as with the polygonal areas. Indeed, one can turn on or off a polygonal area but can not enable or disable a circular area.

From the perspective of the role of such areas, this is strange.

Best regards. Gilletarom.
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Old 17-02-2016, 22:42   #1255
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Gilletarom,
At the moment the visibility state of any boundary is not considered when WD asks OD to see if there is a boundary there. This may seem nonsense, but the the boundary point is still 'Active' even if it is not displayed. The reason for this is that you may hide objects to get rid of clutter, BUT, you may still be interested if something happens, i.e. you are about to enter an exclusion boundary that is hidden.

I would like to leave it the way it is at the moment as I think it is safer, although, in the first instance, it may be confusing. I think when Boundary Points can be made 'Inactive' this will then alleviate the issue.

It may be nice to, from the WD alert message box, be able to highlight or centre the object that caused the alert. Again, this would have to be for the next release. But it could be done. Currently there is a line drawn from the boat to the point in the boundary that caused the alarm, but of course, if the boundary is not displayed it may 'look' wrong. In this case un-hiding the boundary would seem sensible, perhaps.

Regards
Jon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
JonGough,

Sorry. I thing that I encountered a bug . But who knows ?

I have a stock of polygonal areas and a stock of circular areas. You know.

The first area circular is actived (of course) and the first polygonal area is unactived.
But , the first circular area is not visible and the first circular area is at the same place that the first polygonal area.

I run the boat and it see the first circular area. Theorically, it is not possible since this area is not visible. Then, the alarm is running.

For me, this is not normal. Anyway, this is problematic.

See screen copy.
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Old 18-02-2016, 00:10   #1256
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Hi,
how to set an alarm on a boundary?

I have the patch 662

Thanks
Jean Paul
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Old 18-02-2016, 01:19   #1257
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Jean Paul,
You need to have a current version of the WatchDog plugin to have boundary alarms. OD does the drawing on the chart, WD does the alarms based on what has been drawn. You should really get WatchDog 1.9.031, as this is the most current.

Jon
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Old 18-02-2016, 01:23   #1258
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Bonjour Nevermind,
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEVERMIND View Post
Hi,
how to set an alarm on a boundary?
I have the patch 662
Thanks
Jean Paul
Lire ces 3 pages :

OpenCPN, Traceur OCPN : Services rendus

et lire ces 2 autres pages :
OpenCPN, Chien de garde : Services rendus

les dernières évolutions de OD comme celles de WD doivent encore y être intégrées mais ce qui est déjà en ligne suffira peut être à répondre à la question.

Sinon, nous communiquerons par MP. Cdlmt. Gilletarom
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Old 18-02-2016, 02:07   #1259
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Ok thanks for the links

i try with the latest version of wathchdog
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Old 18-02-2016, 02:15   #1260
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Re: Ocpn-Draw and Boundary

Hello Nevermind

La dernière version bêta de OD et/ou celle de WD sont souvent dans le thingie. Voir souvent plus de détail dans le dernier post de ce fil
Plugin Threads (List)

Mais, parfois, pour ses toutes dernières versions, Jongough mets un lien de téléchargement ici pour OD ou dans le fil de WD pour WD.

Il faut donc surveiller en permanence.

Ben oui, ça nous apprendra à pas savoir compiler.

Par ailleurs, ce serait bien si nous communiquions ensemble concernant la traduction de certains items des fichiers de langue de OD et WD.

Cdlmt, Gilletarom
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