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Old 24-11-2014, 09:57   #31
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

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Happyseagull

When I throw a piece of wood on the fire I do not want "Are you sure you want to burn this wood?" showing up on my google-glasses or whatever. I soon learn to brush them aside as "annoyances", or more like, crush the annoyance underfoot.
As stated in my post, for a OpenCpn geek a such settings will be nonsense and for sure with your close to 2000 posting on this forum you qualify for this noble honor rank.

On certain systems you will have to start a separate configuration program to get access to important system settings as a safety feature, and I think it is a good idea to separate important system bacic settings from the "day to day" settings.

The idea of a warning and "ok" was may be not so good. Best solution would be creating a separate startup link with "OpenCpn - protected configuration settings" and leave this the only way to change these settings. This way, also the day to day config menu will be simpler since important settings is moved to a separate area.
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Old 24-11-2014, 10:44   #32
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

H seagull is happy with no fuss i terface. My I just suggest that we hold our breath until we see how caesars layout looks, I am quite certain that we will all know where stuff is because we know the program, and the idea is to make this easier for those new to the program. In my opinion the Options framework is pretty good now, but there is no reason we cant benefit by some improvements. So lets try to keep and open mind and do please register and guide the process so we end up with something even better. And in the end lets hope everyone is Happier!

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Old 24-11-2014, 12:36   #33
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Quote:
Originally Posted by petter5 View Post
As stated in my post, for a OpenCpn geek a such settings will be nonsense and for sure with your close to 2000 posting on this forum you qualify for this noble honor rank.

On certain systems you will have to start a separate configuration program to get access to important system settings as a safety feature, and I think it is a good idea to separate important system bacic settings from the "day to day" settings.

The idea of a warning and "ok" was may be not so good. Best solution would be creating a separate startup link with "OpenCpn - protected configuration settings" and leave this the only way to change these settings. This way, also the day to day config menu will be simpler since important settings is moved to a separate area.
But I am not an expert. There are several features I have never used. Some have no apparent usefulness to me. When I do get to using them , I won't want them behind the advanced door. I want them on the Tab that pertains.
Still, I understand your point as it applies to a new user versus the Usr that I may be and it is the same one Windows,Mac,Linux and Android apply to my aggravation. Hidden files and the rest. It need be agreed that a person capable of piloting a boat cannot be trusted with a laptop application. But being so, it needs a list of the Dangerous functions that need "protecting" versus the merely "Important" (which I would call "Advanced" )which are not actually Dangerous.

As Dangerous I suggested Vector chart settings ..."Hide this Chart" is another. Deleting waypoints etc etc. Shall we draw up a list? Perhaps a list with check boxes for "Enable chart Hiding", "EnableVector Chart Settings" etc. would do.
But I'd imagine this to be difficult for the hardworking developers to express in the GUI...stuff appearing on screen or in the right-click menus or not, I mean. It's a total rewrite,isn't it?
Anyways, my vote goes with BDcat's original screengrabs as plenty good enough.
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Old 24-11-2014, 13:09   #34
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

No panic please!

Some ideas to discuss yes, or menu entries to been cleaned up - but please no complete re-vamp of the user interface.

The average user, that does not appear here - and these are 99,5% - is using the program.
They use the core and and little bit more depending on their special interest.

The difference for us here at the forum is that even the wish to follow all the plug-ins (testing or just listening) is already an impossible adventure.

For the guys documenting and translating the growing number of plug-ins is making the task more challenging. My feeling is that the complaints about complexity are coming from that front.
Imagine to have the Manual in some more languages....
Would really be great.

I follow Happy - having the options at hand, no need to go several layers when you are searching for some special setting you want to use or somebody has mentioned in a thread.

And Petter: users are not idiots (bit harsh I know) and they (should?) have the option to do things wrong or in a different way. In our case that "locked-away menu" looks for me "liability induced", not practical but juridical.
In the hypothetical case that OCPN would search a "wheel mark" we shall see what we will need beyond the disclaimer that already lurks up after installing.
All the genuine plotters do so. Nothing that me worries right now.

Hubert
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Old 24-11-2014, 23:41   #35
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Ok... Dave, and all testers:

Here are some screenshots of what I have done.

Of course stuff can still be moved around, but I think it's a good start and much clearer than before.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers,
Caesar

(PS - Note: the order of the tabs in Chart Files is still wrong. Chart Groups should be beside Charts. But some inflexible code means Chart Groups wants to be third... so it will be a bit of work to change it. I will do it if people like this layout and Dave wants to use it.)
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	2 - Chart Display - Vector.png
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Name:	3 - Chart Display - Advanced.png
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Name:	4 - Chart Files.png
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Size:	167.1 KB
ID:	92304  

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Old 25-11-2014, 00:44   #36
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Missing the S-63 tab (déformación profesionelle...)

just install the plug-in to play with it...

In the Display tab I would prefer the "Navigation Options" in the top.

Looks very familiar, and this is good

Hubert
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Old 25-11-2014, 03:05   #37
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Hello Everyone,

I had not seen this thread Dave launched there are only 5 days. It seems to me that the reactions that I read, are all due to very savvy users of OpenCPN.

I think being part experienced users. Also, to read, of course, the debate is interesting.

And those who read me know how many times I have said, and reiterated that OpenCPN has become too complicated. What you are proposing will certainly bring some good to be users, but I am disappointed.

There are some day I realized that there was one item which I had never paid attention. This is the item "Heading predictor length". And why is I had never paid attention? Because on my own boat, I have no instrument that sends the heading of the magnetic compass in the NMEA network.
In short, for me, this item is useless. (Obviously, for others, it may be useful.)

Take the case of a user whose little boat equipped with computer hardware and device: Just a PC and a GPS. This user does not need the items on the AIS.

Take the case of New Zealanders users would only use raster maps of the coast of New Zealand. This user does not need the item on ENC type charts or CM93.

My idea: In a word, the user needs to deal with items that are Verily it helpful. All other items should be hidden him.

In other words, at the time of installation OpenCPN, one should have a screen with checkboxes, where the user would describe his boat.
- Type of boat (sail or motor)
- Length,
- Width
- Draught
- Sail area,
- Number of engines
- Power of the engine or engines,

But also the type of charts used
- Raster,
- ENC,
- CM93.

But also the list of devices interconnected with the NMEA network:
- Presence of GPS,
- Presence of VHF,
- Presence of AIS equipement,
- Presence of autopilot,
- Presence of a sounder,
- Presence of an anemometer,
- Presence of water temperature sensor,
Etc ....

These data should be used to show all items that are really necessary for the user. All other items should be hidden.

This would be an effective way to make OpenCPN much less complicated than now.

Obviously, the list of equipment available on the boat could be updated at will and new items would display in the options.

I have not fully analyzed the effects of this proposal on the contents of the various tabs of the options, but it would be a good revolution.

Best regards, Gilletarom.
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Old 25-11-2014, 05:42   #38
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

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Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
These data should be used to show all items that are really necessary for the user. All other items should be hidden.

This would be an effective way to make OpenCPN much less complicated than now.

Obviously, the list of equipment available on the boat could be updated at will and new items would display in the options.

I have not fully analyzed the effects of this proposal on the contents of the various tabs of the options, but it would be a good revolution.

Best regards, Gilletarom.
Fully agree. All initial settings and settings not used in daily navigation should be separated. By separating it is safer for the chance to accidentally toggle with important settings is limited, and simpler since the menu used for daily navigation will have less settings displayed.
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Old 25-11-2014, 05:58   #39
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilletarom View Post
...And those who read me know how many times I have said, and reiterated that OpenCPN has become too complicated....

In other words, at the time of installation OpenCPN, one should have a screen with checkboxes, where the user would describe his boat.
- Type of boat (sail or motor)
- Length,
- Width
- Draught
- Sail area,
- Number of engines
- Power of the engine or engines,

But also the type of charts used
- Raster,
- ENC,
- CM93.

But also the list of devices interconnected with the NMEA network:
- Presence of GPS,
- Presence of VHF,
- Presence of AIS equipement,
- Presence of autopilot,
- Presence of a sounder,
- Presence of an anemometer,
- Presence of water temperature sensor,
Etc ....

These data should be used to show all items that are really necessary for the user. All other items should be hidden.

This would be an effective way to make OpenCPN much less complicated than now...
I think your proposal would make O MORE complicated, not less complicated. A first-time user will be intimated by such a series of questions. Beginners are already a bit put off by having to set a chart directory and figure out how to download the charts. Answering all these questions will be far more intimidating.

What if the new user doesn't even have a boat? He's probably going to quit out of the program. What if he doesn't know what an anemometer or AIS is? Many of these technical terms are intimidating, even for some boat owners.

Some of us use O on portable tablets and netbooks, and take them with us on friends' boats, charters, and delivery runs. Due to the changing environment, there are capabilities that we may use sometimes, but not at other times. So entering a bunch of boat parameters is wasted time when the boat could change frequently.

It's very common for computer programs of all types to have capabilities that are unnecessary for some users. As long as the program defaults to settings that don't get in the way, I think it's harmless to have the extra features present. Let's organize the settings page to put the most common ones at the top. But I think any effort to completely hide certain settings based on a questionnaire is going to add a lot of unnecessary complexity.
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Old 25-11-2014, 06:09   #40
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

A set of minimal default values could be filled in to meet the requirement for the simplest usage, then you could check the "advanced" option for configuring of all other tings during install.
OpenCpn is an advanced application that can fulfill advancd requirements, no doubt, but to be usable, things not required for daily navigation for daily use should be separated in a separate "advanced system settings"
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Old 25-11-2014, 07:01   #41
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Wow look what has happened,, an idea that might help. Can amyone thonk of a program that wprksthis way as an example? Keep in mind that programmatically we dont want excessive time spent fixing interfaces between different platforms.. if this idea involves that kind of prohram effort or if it slows opencpn down, we might want to adjust coutse.

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Old 25-11-2014, 07:20   #42
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Guys,

There are a lot of ideas here, some good, some less so (in my opinion).

I think the whole Options, or much of it, probably needs a rewrite in the next version OpenCPN. But nothing that major is going to happen before the upcoming release...

For now it's only going to be small changes. To make the existing options dialog that little but easier to use, making it less cluttered and the individual options easier to find.


What does anyone think of my screenshots, are they an improvement over what we have now?


Hubert, thanks. I will play with the S63 plugin. (Though I have no S63 charts...) Does it add a tab to the settings, then?

Caesar
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Old 25-11-2014, 07:41   #43
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

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Originally Posted by Mollymawk View Post
Guys,


Hubert, thanks. I will play with the S63 plugin. (Though I have no S63 charts...) Does it add a tab to the settings, then?

Caesar
Yes, it will. If you want so you can play with the S-64 (official) test data set.
How-to in the beta manual.

Hubert
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Old 25-11-2014, 09:26   #44
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

Caesar...

The mock up looks pretty good. It is an improvement.

However....
I don't like the idea of "Vector Charts" page on the top screen. In the real world, vector charts are an advanced concept, and not used nearly as much as raster charts for typical OCPN users. I say this after looking at years of crash dump screen shots....

How about this:

1. Change "Chart Files" to "Chart Options"
2. Move "Vector Charts" to "Chart Options"
3. Rename "Chart Options->Charts" to "Chart Options->Chart Files"

That leaves us with "General" and "Advanced" on the top screen, which is somehow satisfying.

Also, I wonder if there is anything else on the UI screen that should move to Display->Advanced?

How on that?
Dave
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Old 25-11-2014, 11:05   #45
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Re: OCPN 3.3 Options pages Layout

As per Bdcat above

OPTIONS
(main selection tabs)
Chart Display - Chart Options Chart files - Connections - Ships - User Interface - Plugins

Chart Display [tab]

General
[sub tab]
.Display Options
... Show Grid
... Show Chart Outlines
... Show Depth Units
.Navigation Options
... Course Up Mode
... Look Ahead Mode
.Control Options
. ..Enable Chart Quilting
... Preserve Scale when Switching Charts
... Smooth Panning / Zooming
. ..Zoom to cursor

Advanced
[sub tab]
.Display Options
... Course up mode display update period (sec) ___
... Disable full screen quilting
....Chart Zoom scale weighting [Scale]
..... With a lower value the same zoom level will shows a less detailed chart.
..... With a higher value the same zoom level show a more detailed chart.
.Opengl
... Use accelerated graphics (Opengl) [Options Button]

Chart Options Chart Files [tab]

Chart Files Charts [sub tab]
.Directories
[Add directory] [Remove Selected]
... User list
.Update Control
... Scan Charts and Update Database
... Force Full Database Rebuild

Vector Charts [sub tab]
... Same as before - Has not changed

Chart Groups [sub tab]
... Same as before

Tides and Currents [sub tab]
... Same as before

User Interface [tab]

.Language [English]
.Toolbar and Window Style [Traditional]
.Fonts [Current Value]

.Miscellaneous Options
... Show Status Bar
... Show Menu Bar
... Show Compass / GPS Status Window
... Show Toolbar in Fullscreen Mode
... Enable Transparent Toolbar
... Show Lat / Long as [Degrees, Decimal Minutes]
... Show distance as [Nautical Miles]
... Show speed as [Knots]
... Play Ships Bells
... Lock Waypoints (Unless waypoint property dialog is visible)
... Confirm deletion of tracks and routes
... Chart Zoom Detail Level [slider]
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