Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-05-2019, 07:29   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
sailorF54's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Perros-Guirec, France
Boat: Jeanneau Sunshine 36
Posts: 979
O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Is there a risk to lose access to the oeSenc charts from O-charts after upgrading to W10 1903 (which should be available shortly everywhere) ?
__________________

sailorF54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 12:24   #2
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 3,382
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

There is no common Yes/No for this W10 case.

In general the W10 Updates will not change the identity of the system.

However we see always some installs that will show up as a new one.
One digit percentage. But a nuisance of course.

We have no chance to know this in advance - MS will not ask us when or how they modify their stuff.

For this cases we will recommend in the future to use a USB dongle as a "portable system". Installing the chart sets in various PCs and using them only when the dongle is present.
Will be available in the very near future.
__________________

bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 13:27   #3
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,335
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Slight hijack, but if the original question was answered, let's make this into a general oeSenc migration/software update thread -- can you migrate a set of OeSenc charts from a broken old machine, to a new one? And how?
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 13:49   #4
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 3,382
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

No, you can't. A broken system is that: invalid.

We are required to limit licenses to one system plus one back-up.

That's why you have that second license to be used in parallel or once a systems gets killed.

In the near future there will be an option to use a USB dongle as a "portable system": copy the charts onto several PC's and the charts will be only active on the system the dongle is plugged in.

Take it like an insurance...
Until you loose the dongle.
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 15:01   #5
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,335
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
No, you can't. A broken system is that: invalid.

We are required to limit licenses to one system plus one back-up.

That's why you have that second license to be used in parallel or once a systems gets killed.

In the near future there will be an option to use a USB dongle as a "portable system": copy the charts onto several PC's and the charts will be only active on the system the dongle is plugged in.

Take it like an insurance...
Until you loose the dongle.

Well, if one backup is allowed, then I can use the backup copy on the new machine, can't I? If it was not used previously?


Not a trivial question for me, as I bought a large set of charts from you for a not small sum of money, covering the whole Baltic plus Germany and Iceland.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 15:10   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK/France
Boat: Gib'Sea 402
Posts: 338
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Yes you can. I have all my oesenc charts loaded on two devices, as back-up

Though as an afterthought I lost an out-of-date set of charts recently when the laptop updated to W10 1809. Be careful with Windows updates ...
hoolie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 23:20   #7
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 3,382
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcn View Post
In the near future there will be an option to use a USB dongle as a "portable system": copy the charts onto several PC's and the charts will be only active on the system the dongle is plugged in.

Take it like an insurance...
Until you loose the dongle.
Those W10 systems are clear candidates for a dongle solution.

The funny - not for the owner - thing is that only a small fraction of W10 system changes identity when updating. Microsoft will know why, we have to see a pattern yet.
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 23:46   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Austria
Posts: 240
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

I understand the restriction: One Life system and one for backup - thats ok. - but when my hw is getting outdated why can I not just replace it with something new, delete the license on the (old) life system (maybe only when being online) and enable another system identifyer to be set for the future. This way I can also just have 2 licenses available for updates.

I am looking forwards to the planned USB dongle but am somehow skeptical based on past experiences with usb dongles - lets wait and see
skipperearly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2019, 23:59   #9
bcn
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: underway whenever possible
Boat: Rangeboat 39
Posts: 3,382
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

How shall the "uninstall" being verified?

Requires being a) online and b) some kind of spyware on your system to check if you don't re-install a back-up copy later on.
Price of "comfort"

"Android" comes to my mind in this context.

There is no DRM system without pain. Add to this the ideas the original licensors have how more or less restrictive it should be handled.
bcn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 00:30   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: UK/France
Boat: Gib'Sea 402
Posts: 338
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperearly View Post
I understand the restriction: One Life system and one for backup - thats ok. - but when my hw is getting outdated why can I not just replace it with something new, delete the license on the (old) life system (maybe only when being online) and enable another system identifyer to be set for the future. This way I can also just have 2 licenses available for updates.

I am looking forwards to the planned USB dongle but am somehow skeptical based on past experiences with usb dongles - lets wait and see
I can't see the restriction as a problem in practice. The oesenc license is for a year after which there are no more updates, so you need to renew annually to keep up to date. How often do you change your "outdated h/w"? I bet it's not every year ... ...
hoolie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 01:36   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Netherlands
Boat: Halmatic 30
Posts: 558
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Win10 is software as a "service".

You do not own the Win10 software. The Owner lives in Redmond and looks daily in your system what you are doing if your connected to the internet.

All the information goes to servers in de US with backdoor connections to the NSA.

How about Huawei ?

MS updates for Win10 are difficult to stop and they change whatever they like.

Better take another Operating system for your navigation purposes.


Bram
verkerkbr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 03:35   #12
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,335
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by verkerkbr View Post
Win10 is software as a "service".

You do not own the Win10 software. The Owner lives in Redmond and looks daily in your system what you are doing if your connected to the internet.

All the information goes to servers in de US with backdoor connections to the NSA.

How about Huawei ?

MS updates for Win10 are difficult to stop and they change whatever they like.

Better take another Operating system for your navigation purposes.


Bram

I doubt if the NSA cares much about what's on my nav computer, which is never online anyway.


But all the uncontrollable processes drive me crazy. I'm going to Linux for my next nav computer.
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 05:39   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
Boat: Gemini 3200
Posts: 777
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
But all the uncontrollable processes drive me crazy. I'm going to Linux for my next nav computer.

I was a happy Linux user for a while. I converted a couple old Windows laptops to Ubuntu 12.04 and was very pleased with the improved performance. I upgraded to Ubuntu 14.04 when it came out. Performance wasn't as good but it was still acceptable. I tried upgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 but performance was so bad I reverted to 14.04.


When OpenCPN 5.0 came out it wasn't available for 14.04. No matter what version of Windows you are running you can simply download and install the OpenCPN version you want. It's different with Linux. The installation package (called a repository in the Linux world) is different for each operating system version. After I raised the issue the OpenCPN folks compiled version 5 for Ubuntu 14.04, but I had already installed Windows on my two computers. With Ubuntu scheduled to discontinue support for 14.04 soon I figured OpenCPN support for Ubuntu 14.04 was going to end soon anyway.


I think I could have avoided the repository problem if I built OpenCPN from source, but I don't know how to do that. I've followed the threads enough to know it isn't trivial to do. And I am not sure that would solve the problem. There may be libraries used in newer OpenCPN versions which are not compatible with older Ubuntu versions.


I think Linux is a better solution than Windows, especially with the new "Windows is a service" pitch. But Linux has a steeper learning curve and you may find yourself messing about with computers more than you like.


Fabbian
fgd3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 05:52   #14
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 24,335
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fgd3 View Post
I was a happy Linux user for a while. I converted a couple old Windows laptops to Ubuntu 12.04 and was very pleased with the improved performance. I upgraded to Ubuntu 14.04 when it came out. Performance wasn't as good but it was still acceptable. I tried upgrading to Ubuntu 16.04 but performance was so bad I reverted to 14.04.


When OpenCPN 5.0 came out it wasn't available for 14.04. No matter what version of Windows you are running you can simply download and install the OpenCPN version you want. It's different with Linux. The installation package (called a repository in the Linux world) is different for each operating system version. After I raised the issue the OpenCPN folks compiled version 5 for Ubuntu 14.04, but I had already installed Windows on my two computers. With Ubuntu scheduled to discontinue support for 14.04 soon I figured OpenCPN support for Ubuntu 14.04 was going to end soon anyway.


I think I could have avoided the repository problem if I built OpenCPN from source, but I don't know how to do that. I've followed the threads enough to know it isn't trivial to do. And I am not sure that would solve the problem. There may be libraries used in newer OpenCPN versions which are not compatible with older Ubuntu versions.


I think Linux is a better solution than Windows, especially with the new "Windows is a service" pitch. But Linux has a steeper learning curve and you may find yourself messing about with computers more than you like.


Fabbian



I'm aware of that risk, which is exactly kept me using Windows for so long for this.


But I'm sick of Windows and it seems to me that Linux might not be all that bad since (a) this is strictly a nav computer, so no need to mess with different drivers; (b) once I get it running, that should be it, no?


Can you or anyone else recommend WHICH version of Linux is best and easiest for O?
__________________
"Parce que je suis heureux en mer, et peut-Ítre pour sauver mon ame. . . "
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-05-2019, 05:59   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 4,459
Re: O-charts (oeSenc) and W10 1903 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Can you or anyone else recommend WHICH version of Linux is best and easiest for O?
Mint is pretty popular, you could try a few booting from a pen drive -
https://www.google.com/search?q=linu...hrome&ie=UTF-8
https://linuxmint.com/about.php

Not sure if the repositories are set up for Opencpn but that's just a one off to set.
__________________

conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charts, enc

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
toolbar not saved with W10/touch screen Horus OpenCPN 3 28-12-2018 08:44
W10 build error on cairo.h sailorF54 OpenCPN 13 23-02-2018 07:44
Weather Routing - Working under W10 anybody? Moo OpenCPN 29 08-01-2018 03:45
EDO on W10 ATN Marine Electronics 0 21-02-2016 10:30
'Nellie' - 1903 Herreshoff Sloop Soundbounder General Sailing Forum 20 30-11-2010 12:40



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.