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Old 05-05-2015, 09:19   #31
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Re: NMEA2000

Andrew & all...
Yes, OpenCPN core now is pretty NME0183 centric.
Yes, it has to and will be replaced with an abstraction making use of other types of input feasible.
Yes, we will support SignalK in a reasonably near future.
No, we will not support NMEA2000 PGNs directly - it is simply too much work and not worth the effort as NMEA2000 can be translated to SignalK already and direct support would bring us absolutely nothing but problems.
No, we can not become members of the NMEA and sign the NDA as it would effectively prevent us from implementing NMEA2000 completely - any open source implementation would be an immediate violation of the agreement.

Pavel
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Old 05-05-2015, 09:59   #32
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Re: NMEA2000

Pavel

Many thanks for that. Very clear and very encouraging.

Andrew
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:04   #33
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Re: NMEA2000

Andrew,

OCPN needs developers!
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Old 05-05-2015, 12:45   #34
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Re: NMEA2000

Well I'm pretty committed at the moment, but maybe ask me again in September

Andrew
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Old 05-05-2015, 14:54   #35
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Re: NMEA2000

Pavel, is this the long-term plan?

The user runs a SignalK server - this might be its own device (like an Arduino or Raspberry Pi) or a service on a PC/Mac.

The SignalK server subscribes to all of the data sources - NMEA-0183, NMEA-2000, AIS, and others. It ingests data via serial/USB, Ethernet, WiFi, and other sources then converts to the internal SignalK JSON format. These replace the current OpenCPN direct connections to data source busses.

The SignalK server makes data available over LAN/WiFi/Bluetooth (or other) connections.

OpenCPN subscribes to interesting SignalK data as a network connection like it does now with a Vesper or 127.0.0.1 for a local server. OpenCPN is taught SignalK's JSON data structures.

Functionality is similar (or better) than current OpenCPN with the responsibility to understand NMEA and vendor data formats moved to SignalK.

Current users running OpenCPN on a PC or Mac laptop will run one more service and users with a dedicated on-board server get much greater flexibility.
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Old 05-05-2015, 15:00   #36
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Re: NMEA2000

And you can have virtual instruments on any of the devices hooked to your network.

As a client in OCPN or just from any browser on other devices.

Will be interesting....
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Old 05-05-2015, 15:07   #37
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Re: NMEA2000

fogmachine...
Dropping our own connection capabilities and keeping just SignalK over any type of socket might (or most likely not) come in a long term, sure not in any foreseeable future.
The only existing plan I have is to make the internal data processing in the OpenCPN's core input format agnostic, with adapters able to consume NMEA0183 and SignalK (which will be the gateway to N2k, SeaTalk, whatever).

Pavel
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Old 06-05-2015, 01:35   #38
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Re: NMEA2000

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
fogmachine...
...
The only existing plan I have is to make the internal data processing in the OpenCPN's core input format agnostic, with adapters able to consume NMEA0183 and SignalK (which will be the gateway to N2k, SeaTalk, whatever).

Pavel
Pavel,

thank your for all above information, this clarifies a lot, same time I learned something new, for instance I did not know signalK etc.

Sorry for turbulences I might have caused ;-)

Heinrich

P.S. Now lets see if signalK has some Home Automation service connected that lets me check from home if I forgot to switch of my (navigation) lights or the dehumidifier is doing its job or the marina service guy really starts the engines monthly ... but this is another topic
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Old 06-05-2015, 02:13   #39
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Re: NMEA2000

IIRC Kees/Canboat did install switches and stuff like this for his boat.
And battery status is there in N2K as well...
Victron has interfaces for their equipment for example.
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Old 06-05-2015, 03:16   #40
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Re: NMEA2000

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Originally Posted by bcn View Post
IIRC Kees/Canboat did install switches and stuff like this for his boat.
And battery status is there in N2K as well...
Victron has interfaces for their equipment for example.
Thank you,

I'll have a look.

I've seen, signalK is still a little bit future, but why not mention what could be convenient. If it makes sense to join these topics is another question, some sensors are available already though. As this is a vice-versa topic too I will dig into small home automation/control that can be used at home as well as on board this summer.
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:50   #41
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Re: NMEA2000

Bill Bishop today:

Quote:
On the NMEA website this morning:

NMEA recognizes the Signal K Open Source project as it serves the need and creates a method that allows both large and small mobile app developers to get involved with NMEA networking. NMEA will recognize this through the means of a NMEA 2000 certified gateway as it does for all other protocols. Signal K developers will need to use a NMEA 2000 certified and fire-walled gateway for the physical interface- either stand-alone or built within a display. This protects the NMEA Intellectual Property and the investments of years of development by many manufacturers worldwide. This method allows the NMEA Intellectual Property to be locked by the gateway as stated in the NMEA 2000 License Agreement. Only this style gateway can perform the translation from NMEA 2000 to Signal K. The gateway requirements are defined in NMEA 2000 Appendix H "3RD Party Gateway Requirements”. This potential new gateway is treated by NMEA no differently than any other certified gateway on the market, such as a NMEA 2000 to J1939 as an example. If NMEA members wish to get involved in Signal K, more information is available at Signal K » Welcome

Ben Ellison ( Panbo: The Marine Electronics Hub) will have an article on this later in the day.
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Old 11-05-2015, 17:30   #42
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Re: NMEA2000

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Bill Bishop today:
Just read Ben's article on Panbo; which pretty much sums up my feeling on it. Looks like there is tacit approval to SignalK in a fairly sensible way. Approved hardware interface with the open Signal K standard on the other side.

I can see why NMEA do this to protect the physical network and it makes sense. I don't really care about their intellectual rights but I don't want my electronics fried by some cheap unapproved device that does actual physical damage.

As a guy who fixes these things for other people, and myself, I'd rather be dealing with a limited set of known and trusted devices than an uncontrolled free for all.

Reckon I'll be right at the head of the queue when they devices start shipping from Actisense or whoever.

Cheers
Chris
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Old 11-05-2015, 23:19   #43
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Re: NMEA2000

The Actisense gateway stuff (as one example) is there and homologated by NMEA.

What NMEA does here is endorse the existence of a world outside from them - which moves faster than an industrial standardization body.
In the same moment they underline their claim i.e. the IP stuff. And will be vigilant. Not one inch to facilitate the integration or publishing the standard.

But the whole story is another motivation to get SigK into OCPN. And a package including a manual/HowTo of the SigK toolset for the user without programming knowledge.

Hubert
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Old 12-05-2015, 07:04   #44
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Re: NMEA2000

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Originally Posted by bcn View Post
The Actisense gateway stuff (as one example) is there and homologated by NMEA.

What NMEA does here is endorse the existence of a world outside from them - which moves faster than an industrial standardization body.
In the same moment they underline their claim i.e. the IP stuff. And will be vigilant. Not one inch to facilitate the integration or publishing the standard.

But the whole story is another motivation to get SigK into OCPN. And a package including a manual/HowTo of the SigK toolset for the user without programming knowledge.

Hubert
I think its a little more than that. Hopefully it's pave the way to a device that actually has SignalK built into it and can serve it directly. None of the current devices are capable of that. Without a statement such as this indicating a mindset shift at NMEA I couldn't see them ever approving such a device.

I come from a telecommunications and electronics background where this kind of semi-closed standard is common, even the ITU is a subscription service! Don't bash NMEA too hard for just doing what every other body in the industry does. I wish it were totally open too, well it open, it just isn't free.

Chris
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Old 29-09-2015, 21:48   #45
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Re: NMEA2000

So I have an NGW-1 ISO purchased to feed GPS data to my VHF radio. I found I could just tie into the 0183 output on my chart plotter which works great.
I have not been able to make it work on my laptop because I have no serial port.
is there a way to make it work or do I have to buy the NGW-1 USB.
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